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  1. #1
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    Arrow Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary
    By Bryan Burwell
    St. Louis Post-Dispatch
    Saturday, Sep. 17 2005

    TEMPE, ARIZ. We interrupt this contentious, embarrassing,
    provocative, fascinating, entertaining (did I say embarrassing?) front-office
    sitcom known as "Everybody Hates Mike" to bring you this important programming
    update:

    Tune in Sunday for another exciting episode in that can't-miss cliffhanger
    "Desperate Quarterbacks II: Kurt vs. Marc."

    Tell me this isn't a columnist's dream. In column A (see Bernie's column), we
    have the saga of the political infighting in the Rams' front office. In column
    B (mine), we have the soap opera of the old Warner vs. Bulger quarterback
    controversy recurring in today's Rams-Cardinals game at Sun Devil Stadium.

    This stuff is so good, we can't make it up. Just ask Bulger, who politely but
    vainly tried to play down the emotional significance of the showdown.

    "You guys are going to find something (to write about) every week," he told me
    as we sat inside the near-empty indoor practice facility last week. "...
    Fortunately, this time, you don't have to make one up."

    He smiled when he said that. He knows how intense this stuff is. This game has
    one of the richest subplots in Rams history: revenge, redemption and
    retribution.

    Ever since Warner's star began fading and Bulger's began rising four years ago,
    football in St. Louis has not been the same. Two security guys at Lambert Field
    illustrated the battle lines that have been drawn.

    "I hope Kurt throws for about 400 yards but the Rams win," the first guy told
    me. "I love Kurt, but the Rams are still my team."

    Then the other guy spoke. "Yeah, I'm a Ram fan, too," he said. "But I hope they
    lose both games to the Cardinals because of what they did to Kurt."

    OK, so here's where I assume my role of designated bad guy. I'm still not sure
    what the Rams did to Warner other than give him the opportunity to start in the
    NFL when no other team was interested.

    As the perceived evil columnist who already hates Mark McGwire, Kurt Warner,
    puppies, mom and apple pie, I'm still not sure what the Rams were supposed to
    do after Warner got injured too frequently, threw too many interceptions,
    fumbled too often, and lost football games. Many people bit their tongues as he
    told the world he was being replaced because of some misguided notion that he
    was the victim of religious persecution, not a beaten-down, brittle passer who
    had become too gun shy.

    Let me say this one more time, just in case we're still a little confused or
    for revisionist Rams historians: Jesus was persecuted; Warner was benched.

    But Sunday's game no doubt will ignore all of that. Every pass Warner completes
    will be measured against every incomplete pass that flips off Bulger's finger
    tips. Even if the Rams win, if Warner throws for 1 yard more than Bulger, it
    will be a victory for Kurt's zealots.

    The only standard that should matter is the one that put Warner on the bench in
    the first place and allowed Bulger to get the starter's job: You play to win
    the game.

    Since taking over as a the starter in the sixth game of the 2002 season, Bulger
    has gone 26-11 in the regular season and has the second-best winning percentage
    (70.2) of active NFL quarterbacks with 16 or more starts (New England's Tom
    Brady is tops with a 77.7 winning percentage and a 49-14 record).

    I don't think Warner can or will reclaim that magic. If the Cardinals can't run
    the ball, the Rams' defense will put so much pressure on Warner that he will
    look ordinary, maybe skittish. If the Cardinals offense looks like it did last
    week in New York, Warner will remind you why he's in Arizona now, not with the
    Rams.



  2. #2
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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    I don't think Warner can or will reclaim that magic. If the Cardinals can't run
    the ball, the Rams' defense will put so much pressure on Warner that he will
    look ordinary, maybe skittish. If the Cardinals offense looks like it did last
    week in New York, Warner will remind you why he's in Arizona now, not with the
    Rams.

    That's a big "IF"...After last weeks debacle, expecting anything other than a flat out dog fight is crazy.

  3. #3
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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Great article here Dez,but like me i do not think that any Ram fan here is against Marc Bulger or the Rams as a team (players). If they are they shouldn't be!!!!!!! I for one was against Martz for this debacle!!!! If he would have given Kurt the opportunity to really lose his starting position fairly,we wouldn't even be discussing this at all right now!
    I know there are people going to say that KW fumbled all those times against the Giants but, from what i saw. He was a QB trying to continually make plays by not taking the sack but, to try and shed defenders off to either complete a pass or to escape and get the necessary yards to make a first down. To win it short! In this i find no fault in a QB!........The line play and play calling were at fault here. Marc has felt it too! 7 sacks last week and a few were his fault also! I challenge any fan to go and watch the Giant game again and then come tell me that I'm wrong! KW to me was the better QB then! IMPO and evidently a few others but,its now behind us1 Except for Mad Mikes other BS all the time! You know i want to like this coach but,he continually gives me ample reason not too! I always hope that he will turn into a great coach and do things that a good coach would do instead of just being Mike Martz! With that being said I'll conclude now!.............Go Rams!

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    PTHOR is offline Registered User
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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    327 yards!

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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by PTHOR
    327 yards!
    ...two turnovers, three fumbles, and a loss!
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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    ...two turnovers, three fumbles, and a loss!
    Absolutely. What are those 327 really worth?


    Hooah


    Win, Lose or Draw... Rams for Life!
    :football:

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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    327 yards ....................

    2 turnovers .................

    3 fumbles .....................

    ZERO FRIGGING TOUCHDOWNS

    and a big fat LOSS

    :clanram: :clanram: :clanram:


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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by RamDez
    327 yards ....................

    2 turnovers .................

    3 fumbles .....................

    ZERO FRIGGING TOUCHDOWNS

    and a big fat LOSS

    :clanram: :clanram: :clanram:

    What this list is really missing is the inexcusable decision
    to not spike the ball with 20 - 25 seconds left to set up a well-reason play or two into the end zone.

    Almost reminds me of him not throwing it out of the end zone against Washington. He just may have one concussion too many ...

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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by adarian_too
    What this list is really missing is the inexcusable decision
    to not spike the ball with 20 - 25 seconds left to set up a well-reason play or two into the end zone.

    Almost reminds me of him not throwing it out of the end zone against Washington. He just may have one concussion too many ...
    Agreed, very good point Adarian. I guess he figured they'd need the down, but still, you've got to spike that ball without any timeouts to get organized.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by adarian_too
    What this list is really missing is the inexcusable decision
    to not spike the ball with 20 - 25 seconds left to set up a well-reason play or two into the end zone.

    Almost reminds me of him not throwing it out of the end zone against Washington. He just may have one concussion too many ...


    If he would have spiked the ball it still would have been over !...He wasnt the one that moved now was he?.......The Oline should have stayed put! Once again there are people blaming Warner for something the line did!.......I can't believe this!........Okay he spikes the ball and the Oline doesnt get a flag and then he throws an incomplete pass on 4th down then what would his critics say?......I know....what a stupid thing to do he had 7 seconnds left on the clock and even if he threw a incomplete pass there would be still enough time for another crack at the endzone!............Damn if he does and damn if he don't! WHAT GIVES HERE?

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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    If he would have spiked the ball it still would have been over !...He wasnt the one that moved now was he?.......The Oline should have stayed put! Once again there are people blaming Warner for something the line did!.......I can't believe this!........Okay he spikes the ball and the Oline doesnt get a flag and then he throws an incomplete pass on 4th down then what would his critics say?......I know....what a stupid thing to do he had 7 seconnds left on the clock and even if he threw a incomplete pass there would be still enough time for another crack at the endzone!............Damn if he does and damn if he don't! WHAT GIVES HERE?
    I don't follow your logic at all. No one's blaming Warner for his lineman moving, so I don't know where you got that. He's being blamed because after the sack, he had plenty of time to rush to the line and spike the ball to stop the clock. But instead, he tried to get a play in, and wasted precious seconds off the clock.

    Furthermore, the game wouldn't have been over had he spiked the ball. It would have been third and goal from the ten yard line. Even if Leonard Davis jumped on the spike, there would have been more than ten seconds on the clock because the Cardinals wouldn't have wasted time trying to organize a play, so the mandatory run off wouldn't have ended the game.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    I don't follow your logic at all. No one's blaming Warner for his lineman moving, so I don't know where you got that. He's being blamed because after the sack, he had plenty of time to rush to the line and spike the ball to stop the clock. But instead, he tried to get a play in, and wasted precious seconds off the clock.

    Furthermore, the game wouldn't have been over had he spiked the ball. It would have been third and goal from the ten yard line. Even if Leonard Davis jumped on the spike, there would have been more than ten seconds on the clock because the Cardinals wouldn't have wasted time trying to organize a play, so the mandatory run off wouldn't have ended the game.

    What game were you watching or play should i say i do believe that Kurt called for the ball well before 3 seconds!......He went to the line and asked for the ball i thought rather quickly!.....Your missinng the point here Nic,yes people were blaming KW for this! Even on the radio after the game he was blamed for not spiking the ball and i do believe that adarian's post was directed at KW was it not? I wished i would have tivo'd it thats for sure because i do believe that there still would have been under 10 secs left even if KW would have spiked the ball. Never the less KW didnt move on the play so why do people still ridicule this man?..........If not for the penalty KW would have beat us! PERIOD!......................So why cant we all just let this issue go!.........I knew deep down that you might have something to say on this matter! You always do!

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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    Never the less KW didnt move on the play so why do people still ridicule this man?
    Again, no one's blaming Warner for moving.

    Yet you claim that's what's going on in your previous post by saying, "Once again there are people blaming Warner for something the line did!" Now again, you claim people are blaming Warner for the line movement, as evident by your statement above.

    I can't say it more clearly than this - no one is blaming Kurt Warner for the false start penalty. What people are blaming Warner for, and rightfully so in my opinion, is trying to get another play off rather than simply spike the ball after being sacked on 1st & 5.

    You contend that even if Warner had the Cardinals rush to the line after the sack for a spike, there simply wasn't enough time on the clock to spike the ball before the ten second mark. I disagree. The first down play in which Warner was sacked occurred with 29 seconds on the clock. I do not honestly believe that it would have taken 19 seconds for Warner to drop back, get sacked, and get the team to the line to spike the football.

    From what I watched of the game highlights on ESPN earlier tonight, Warner was sacked pretty quickly after the snap, and then stood around trying to tell the other offensive players what to do on the next play. Had he signaled to spike the ball, I believe the team could have gotten set up and the spike could have been made before the 10 second mark. And even if they didn't get the spike off before the 10 second mark, there's no evidence to suggest Davis would have committed the penalty on the spike. I don't know how an offensive lineman would commit a false start on a spike, because they shouldn't have to be worried about getting off the line in order to block.


    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    If not for the penalty KW would have beat us! PERIOD
    I have no idea how you can say this with any certainty. The Cardinals were unable to score on our defense in the red zone all day. There's no reason at all, in my opinion, to conclude that they suddenly could have done it on this drive in a no-huddle offense.


    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    I knew deep down that you might have something to say on this matter! You always do!
    Please refrain from making this discussion about personal differences. Differences of opinion on the game or what took place, sure. But personal comments/criticisms have no place here. Thank you.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Again, no one's blaming Warner for moving.

    reply------------ Okay then tell me who adarian was referring too?

    Yet you claim that's what's going on in your previous post by saying, "Once again there are people blaming Warner for something the line did!" Now again, you claim people are blaming Warner for the line movement, as evident by your statement above.

    reply------------ It seemed to me that a few were referring to warner!

    I can't say it more clearly than this - no one is blaming Kurt Warner for the false start penalty. What people are blaming Warner for, and rightfully so in my opinion, is trying to get another play off rather than simply spike the ball after being sacked on 1st & 5.

    reply-------- Okay i'll give you that but,itstill might not have made a difference at all He still might have jumped and then the game would have still been over! Also just like you below (How can you say this without any certainty? as you referred to me? I'm not sure on the time? as i mentioned ealier but, i do not believe that there was 29 secs left! Could be wrong but pretty sure that there was less time on the clock! And i dont believe that there were any timeouts left for Arizona!

    You contend that even if Warner had the Cardinals rush to the line after the sack for a spike, there simply wasn't enough time on the clock to spike the ball before the ten second mark. I disagree. The first down play in which Warner was sacked occurred with 29 seconds on the clock. I do not honestly believe that it would have taken 19 seconds for Warner to drop back, get sacked, and get the team to the line to spike the football.

    reply----- Shouldn't the coach have an imput on this also?

    From what I watched of the game highlights on ESPN earlier tonight, Warner was sacked pretty quickly after the snap, and then stood around trying to tell the other offensive players what to do on the next play. Had he signaled to spike the ball, I believe the team could have gotten set up and the spike could have been made before the 10 second mark. And even if they didn't get the spike off before the 10 second mark, there's no evidence to suggest Davis would have committed the penalty on the spike. I don't know how an offensive lineman would commit a false start on a spike, because they shouldn't have to be worried about getting off the line in order to block.

    reply-------- This being said now think about it as if you are in KW's shoes! You've been just sacked you are in hurry up mode and you see your linemen and recievers still having a hard time getting set so why would you call for a snap at this point just to get a penalty for the same infraction that you are disagreeing with me here on! If he would have called for the ball from the center then the same infraction would have still occured wouldn't it? If they are not all down and in the set position the same results would have been flagged!



    I have no idea how you can say this with any certainty. The Cardinals were unable to score on our defense in the red zone all day. There's no reason at all, in my opinion, to conclude that they suddenly could have done it on this drive in a no-huddle offense.

    reply Maybe not? but, by the looks of what was going on they sure appeared to be driving in for the winning score! I for one am glad that the penalty occured! I was tremendously nervous!



    Please refrain from making this discussion about personal differences. Differences of opinion on the game or what took place, sure. But personal comments/criticisms have no place here. Thank you.
    reply Its not personnal on my part Nic....i was just commenting that somehow i knew you would reply! Remember my name talkstoangels...........lol.......something told me you would respond is all! .....Just wished theyd tell me the outcome of the games before they were played and I'd be RICH!......................LOL!!!!
    Last edited by talkstoangels61; -09-18-2005 at 11:37 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: Face it, folks: Warner's exit was necessary

    White flag is up Nic!.....I quit...lol

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