Face Value

[Fat Pang]

Forgive me for selectively quoting but there are some snippets from our signal caller that 'Wraith' posted up that are worth highlighting.

Marc Bulger:-

(On offence)

“I’d say a big part of that is Steven (Jackson). You can’t ignore the fact that when he’s in there good things happen. He just brings that energy we need in the huddle and if we can keep him healthy I think we’ll continue to get better and score more points.”

(On Bennett)
“His health is good – that helps."

(On preparation)
"I prepared the same. You can take a deep breath and say ‘it’s not what you are doing, it’s just the execution.’ To come out and play the way we all did, I think that its just execution it’s not how we are preparing or lack of effort.”

Interesting that Marc would come out again and reiterate some of the same themes. Senior players haven't lost faith, they haven't given up on their coach, they do not attribute our horrendous start to lack or preparation or effort and they believe that the onus for improvement therefore lies with them.

This to me is leadership, Refusing to avoid responsbility, treating the situation with a determined equanimity, continuing to treat yourself and your teammates with respect. Its goes a lot further than merely shouting and bawling and calling people out. I think it does in any case.

So what does this say about Linehan and the environment he's created?

Why can't the public statements of our senior players be taken at face value? If not, why not?

Do we really know anything they don't?

Should players statements influence our opinions?

I still think the odds are against Linehan remaining, this is an unforgiving business afterall, but I do think that if he does go, then there may be signs that we'll see him be successful somewhere else at some time in the future. A few of us will have cause to regret the the circumstances of this season.

[r8rh8rmike]

So what does this say about Linehan and the environment he's created?

I think that's an important question Pang. IMO, the fact the Linehan has held things together and still has the support and respect of his players, despite the extreme chaotic situation surrounding the team bodes well for him. That, along with a few more wins could just save his job. To have Marc Bulger make the effort to go around the locker room to talk to some of the other leaders on the team and then have them all want to give the game ball to their beleaguered coach speaks volumes.

[RamOfDenmark]

(On preparation)
"I prepared the same. You can take a deep breath and say ‘it’s not what you are doing, it’s just the execution.’ To come out and play the way we all did, I think that its just execution it’s not how we are preparing or lack of effort.”

Is it this quote you're all so excited about because it shows our players full support of Linehan? If so, I'm not sure I read it right. To me what Bulger is saying is simply "It's not lack of preparation or effort that lost the first 8 games". I guess you could say Linehan has responsibility for (some of) the preparation part, but he could just as well be talking about the players' responsibilities, whether he felt some were slacking off (like he publicly criticized Barron for last year). And if it's not preparation or effort, what could it be then? Playcalling/gameplanning? Injuries? Bad luck? All of those? Who knows, he doesn't say why he thinks we lost so much. He doesn't mention our coach anywhere, for good or bad, so I'm going to have to say I still don't know what Bulger thinks of Linehan after reading this. If he wanted to come out in full support of Linehan then saying something more clear on that point would seem more logical. I know you want to find something to defend Linehan with (why I'm not sure though), and yeah I'm probably looking at it from the other angle. But honestly just reading this quote with an open mind I'm not seeing any ringing endorsement of Linehan, at best the quote is unclear or neutral - not much information contained in it really.

Oh, and about the face value. In general, no, I absolutely do not think most things said to the media by the players can be taken at face value. Especially positive things it's really hard to discern if it's sincere or if they're just going through the motions of the usual "PR-speak", it's the same with most coaches' press conferences. It's very very rare to hear someone criticise, especially with names, and I guess that is a good thing - taking care of things in-house etc. But it also means, to me, that whenever I hear something like this above quote I just tune out, I know what they're going to say already and we don't get much information out of it anyhow. It's like politics really, in a way that's sad, but on the other hand the only players that don't play politics with their interviews are usually too open with their critique and they're considered team cancers for it. We wouldn't want that either.

[txramsfan]

The players loved Martz too. It comes down to what is the ultimate "face value". Wins and losses. So far, Linehan's record isn't that good.

[Fat Pang]

Does anyone think that the Germans love Larry Marmie like they love David Hasselhoff?

If you want to de-rail a thread please do it someplace else.

So what we're saying then is that the players are merely playing politics with their public pronouncements.

Where do we get that from?

We were so keen to laud Bulger for his statement calling out Barron but not so keen to laud these statements showing support for a coach. The quote on preparation doesn't get me excited as much as winning would but on the back of Marc's public statement of support last week and the giving of a game ball, I think they have some relevance.

That some choose to discount this is not a surprise but I have no idea why they do or what evidence they have to suppose that they have good grounds.

Again, you have to think that the weight of losses blinding people to some not all of the larger points of this season.

[rampower]

As previously stated martz was popular with players, still got fired in the end, but that doesn't take into account anything else that may have been happening in rams park.

Linehan has had some ups, downs, and really low downs, how the team responds on the field for the rest of season will determine his fate.

Its nice to have support but regardless of player or fan support but the board and results will make or break him. I am glad that he has a chance post bye week to try and turn it all around.

[Fat Pang]

Yes, I'd agree with that. Even go so far as to say his fate is largely sealed barring a spectacular turnaround.

But has hasn't been thrown under the bus as some coaches have and I think that's interesting.

Its too easy too blame it all on the top man.

[moloch41]

Yes, I'd agree with that. Even go so far as to say his fate is largely sealed barring a spectacular turnaround.

But has hasn't been thrown under the bus as some coaches have and I think that's interesting.

Its too easy too blame it all on the top man.

No one's blaming Linehan for everything, but I was bothered by what I believed was him throwing Bulger under the bus last year for calling out out players that were clearly not giving it everything they had. I don't see any accountability for players under Linehan (unless you question your teammates dedication, that is). That is displayed by the same players making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again... If he's going to deflect blame for these guys, then he should take it.

As for derailing the thread- can you really have a thread about incompetent coaches without mentioning his name? And like I said, Archuleta made similiar comments about Marmie when he was there- so I don't think comments such as there are an accurate reflection of a player's belief in a coach. If you don't question it, then you must believe that Marmie was a pretty good coach too and the players just didn't make plays for him.

[r8rh8rmike]

Is it this quote you're all so excited about because it shows our players full support of Linehan? If so, I'm not sure I read it right. To me what Bulger is saying is simply "It's not lack of preparation or effort that lost the first 8 games". I guess you could say Linehan has responsibility for (some of) the preparation part, but he could just as well be talking about the players' responsibilities, whether he felt some were slacking off (like he publicly criticized Barron for last year). And if it's not preparation or effort, what could it be then? Playcalling/gameplanning? Injuries? Bad luck? All of those? Who knows, he doesn't say why he thinks we lost so much. He doesn't mention our coach anywhere, for good or bad, so I'm going to have to say I still don't know what Bulger thinks of Linehan after reading this. If he wanted to come out in full support of Linehan then saying something more clear on that point would seem more logical. I know you want to find something to defend Linehan with (why I'm not sure though), and yeah I'm probably looking at it from the other angle. But honestly just reading this quote with an open mind I'm not seeing any ringing endorsement of Linehan, at best the quote is unclear or neutral - not much information contained in it really.

These are the quotes I'm looking at which make a clear case that the team has confidence and respect for Linehan and most importantly have not quit on him:

"I asked a couple of guys and they all agreed," Bulger said. "It was for sticking with us. It's not like he's been punishing us (for the losses). He gave us our time off and treated us like men.

"I think he's the reason why we came out with some energy (Sunday). It wasn't by accident. Obviously, he wasn't going to give himself the game ball and take credit. But I think it was important for him to be acknowledged for the job he did. He's maintained the same things that are important to us. He reiterates them to us every week. He knows if we stick to those we'll win games. He's positive. He still has trust in us and he knows we can get this turned around."

Rams quarterback Marc Bulger said he doesn't see the team quitting on Linehan.

"I won't allow it to happen, Isaac (Bruce) won't allow it to happen, Torry (Holt) won't allow it to happen," Bulger said. "I don't think that will be an issue. We have faith in him. He's working as hard as he can. We're not making plays for him. We're just not playing good right now. I don't think it's a lack of effort. It's just bad football."

[VegasRam]

Moloch - It's all opinion on this board, and I realize that, but you really do need to be a little more specific, (maybe some examples?), when you refer to "players making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again."

Strongly disagree.

As far as the original thread theme, Bulger said, we prepared, put forth a good effort , but didn't execute.

How is that not calling out the players?

Howis that Linehan's playcalling?

[moloch41]

Moloch - It's all opinion on this board, and I realize that, but you really do need to be a little more specific, (maybe some examples?), when you refer to "players making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again."

For example- Alex Barron jumping offsides at least once a game. Richie Incognito getting stupid personal foul penalites in critical situations is another.

How is that not calling out the players?

The calling out of players that I was talking about happened last year. He never mentioned names, but anyone that had ever watched a Rams game knew that he was talking about players like Barron, Incognito, Kennedy and a few others. Linehan pretty much undercut Bulger by saying his comments had no merit. I think he was the only one that thought that.

[denverram]

I do not think you can take anything anybody says at face value. Everybody has a different perspective on things and to ignore that is dangerous and foolish. I appreciate what Bulger said but the execution is down to repitition. You get repition in practice and training camp.

When the soccer teams I coach do not execute very well it is primarily because they do not have enough touches on the ball during the week before the game. With enough touches even a marginal player can execute their assignments , maybe not as well as a starter but effectively non the less.

Based on my perspective I think that Linehan needs to ensure that the players are practicing more!! Better training camps and better practices. I have said it in the past and I will continue to say it. This team was not prepared to play at the start of the season. We have way to much talent to be 1-8 even with the injuries.

I beleive that some of our injuries are because we had a soft camp. We are only now ready for the season to begin.

This is a coaching error. It should cost linehan his job. He wasted this season

[r8rh8rmike]

The calling out of players that I was talking about happened last year. He never mentioned names, but anyone that had ever watched a Rams game knew that he was talking about players like Barron, Incognito, Kennedy and a few others. Linehan pretty much undercut Bulger by saying his comments had no merit. I think he was the only one that thought that.

Do you have a link or direct quote from Linehan that substantiates what you're saying moloch? I seem to remember that Linehan was supportive of Bulger's comments.

[HUbison]

Linehan pretty much undercut Bulger by saying his comments had no merit.

Maybe it's my poor memory, but I don't recall that happening. Would you happen to have a link?

[moloch41]

Do you have a link or direct quote from Linehan that substantiates what you're saying moloch? I seem to remember that Linehan was supportive of Bulger's comments.

I will look!!! I don't remember them being very suppportive.