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-25-08-2008
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Superbowl MVP
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri
Age: 34
Posts: 9,159
Rep Power: 43
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
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Originally Posted by miser
So please quit calling Jackson dis-honorable and a liar unless your prepared to dish Marshall Faulk the same judgement!
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I agree, miser. Faulk shouldn't have held out either. Anyone, that is ANYONE, who signs a contract, then voluntarily does not fulfill the contract has lied. And lying is not honorable.
The NFL is not some fantasy land. It is a business operated by and for men, humans, actual real-life people. Steven Jackson, a real-life person living in the real-life actual world, chose to not fulfill his contract.
I'm sorry, guys; redefine terms any way that one wants but I have to recognize a lie when it occurs. I'm not boycotting him, I don't want him traded or cut. He did what he did, and we all move on just fine. But I can't look at the pink elephant in the room and pretend he's a lampstand. But come on Hub, it looks like a lampstand to me. Maybe so, but I still see a pink elephant. The pink elephant is welcome to stay in the room, but don't ask me to call him a lampstand.
__________________
"The greatest evil is conceived and ordered in clean offices, by men with white collars. Hence, my symbol for Hell is the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern." --- C. S. Lewis
"Dr. Lewis, allow me to introduce to you, Mr Shaw & Jay Zygmunt.....oh, I see you've already met." HUbison
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-26-08-2008
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Pro Bowl Ram
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stockton & San Francisco, California
Age: 51
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris58
And he's a PROFESSIONAL football player on a PROFESSIONAL team. The fact that they are both professional entities is all the more reason for him to perform the contract he signed.  |
I would agree if the contract was all guaranteed, or he received a large signing bonus contingent that he played out the contract (the Ricky Williams situation having to pay some of it back). Then the commitment would be more on a even keel to both entities. The scales just are not balanced currently. The team can cut a player anytime they wish and not have to pay a dime of what is left on that contract, which they do all the time.
Which I guess makes them LIARS!!!! So I guess Jackson was just adapting to the tactics of his adversary. When in Rome, do what the Romans do, as they say. There's no honor among thieves. An eye for an eye. Punch the bully before he can punch you. Liars never prosper (oops, can't use that one).
Last edited by bigredman; -26-08-2008 at 12:37 AM.
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-26-08-2008
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Pro Bowl Ram
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stockton & San Francisco, California
Age: 51
Posts: 1,666
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by laram0
Also did someone hold a gun to Jackson's head and force him to play football?
He could have chosen a different profession but he didn't. He's very fortunate to have made it to the "ELITE" NFL.
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Hep me, hep me...
day has a guns to ma head...
hep me, hep me...
I'z can run...I'z play football...
hep me....
Last edited by bigredman; -26-08-2008 at 01:24 AM.
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-26-08-2008
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Pro Bowl Ram
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Beach, Ca.
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredman
When in Rome, do what the Romans do, as they say. There's no honor among thieves.
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This pretty much sums up dealings in the NFL and why I don't think "honor" is an excepted or even expected concept by either side. These guys all function in a closed system and I just don't see "normal" or "reasonable" perceptions of morality from the outside as applicable.
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-26-08-2008
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Pro Bowl Ram
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
This pretty much sums up dealings in the NFL and why I don't think "honor" is an excepted or even expected concept by either side. These guys all function in a closed system and I just don't see "normal" or "reasonable" perceptions of morality from the outside as applicable.
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Oh my goodness Mike.
That's two agreements with me in one thread.
You are getting me excited! Come here big boy!
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-26-08-2008
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Pro Bowl Ram
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
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Originally Posted by bigredman
Oh my goodness Mike.
That's two agreements with me in one thread.
You are getting me excited! Come here big boy!
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Heaven help me........ 
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-26-08-2008
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Superbowl MVP
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri
Age: 34
Posts: 9,159
Rep Power: 43
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
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Originally Posted by BigRedMan
The team can cut a player anytime they wish and not have to pay a dime of what is left on that contract, which they do all the time.
Which I guess makes them LIARS!!!!
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And my question still stands...........if the team is not acting within the agreement, why don't cut players sue their ex-team for breach of contract?
__________________
"The greatest evil is conceived and ordered in clean offices, by men with white collars. Hence, my symbol for Hell is the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern." --- C. S. Lewis
"Dr. Lewis, allow me to introduce to you, Mr Shaw & Jay Zygmunt.....oh, I see you've already met." HUbison
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-26-08-2008
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Pro Bowl Ram
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUbison
And my question still stands...........if the team is not acting within the agreement, why don't cut players sue their ex-team for breach of contract?
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Because the collective bargaining agreement doesn't allow them...that's what I'm saying...you can't look at these contracts in the same context as those in the non-union private sector.
Everyone...understand....the owners (through the league)and the players (through their union) negotiated and allow exactly what occurs between owners and players.
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-27-08-2008
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Superbowl MVP
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri
Age: 34
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredman
Because the collective bargaining agreement doesn't allow them...that's what I'm saying...you can't look at these contracts in the same context as those in the non-union private sector.
Everyone...understand....the owners (through the league)and the players (through their union) negotiated and allow exactly what occurs between owners and players.
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YES! Exactly right! When teams cut a player, they are acting WITHIN the agreement. Teams are not breaching a contract when they cut a player; and that is why I can't equate "teams cutting a player" with "player holding out from a team".
One is a breach of contract, the other is not.
"But HUb, that's not fair!" Neither is life. If the union didn't find it fair, they should not have signed off on it in the collective bargaining agreement.
You know, Red, I thought we were disagreeing on this point, but now all of a sudden we agree! Is the earth still spinning?
__________________
"The greatest evil is conceived and ordered in clean offices, by men with white collars. Hence, my symbol for Hell is the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern." --- C. S. Lewis
"Dr. Lewis, allow me to introduce to you, Mr Shaw & Jay Zygmunt.....oh, I see you've already met." HUbison
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-28-08-2008
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: L.A., Ca.
Posts: 777
Rep Power: 8
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUbison
I agree, miser. Faulk shouldn't have held out either. Anyone, that is ANYONE, who signs a contract, then voluntarily does not fulfill the contract has lied. And lying is not honorable.
The NFL is not some fantasy land. It is a business operated by and for men, humans, actual real-life people. Steven Jackson, a real-life person living in the real-life actual world, chose to not fulfill his contract.
I'm sorry, guys; redefine terms any way that one wants but I have to recognize a lie when it occurs. I'm not boycotting him, I don't want him traded or cut. He did what he did, and we all move on just fine. But I can't look at the pink elephant in the room and pretend he's a lampstand. But come on Hub, it looks like a lampstand to me. Maybe so, but I still see a pink elephant. The pink elephant is welcome to stay in the room, but don't ask me to call him a lampstand. |
No, lying is not honorable. But show me one man still living who has not lied. If you can do that, I'll give you $100.00 for every sack Chris Long records this season.
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-28-08-2008
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Ram MVP
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Maui, Hi.
Age: 64
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Rep Power: 17
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater
No, lying is not honorable. But show me one man still living who has not lied. If you can do that, I'll give you $100.00 for every sack Chris Long records this season.
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Man .. What a piker !!! :
__________________
Chris Long being interviewed by Dan Patrick:
Dan: "So Chris, I hear you got injured in camp yesterday"
Chris: "Uh that's not a word in my vocabulary Dan"
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-28-08-2008
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Superbowl MVP
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri
Age: 34
Posts: 9,159
Rep Power: 43
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Re: Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater
No, lying is not honorable. But show me one man still living who has not lied. If you can do that, I'll give you $100.00 for every sack Chris Long records this season.
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Precisely, fortu. That is exactly the point of the post of mine you quoted. I'm not doubting the "everybody else does it" statement; because everybody else DOES do it. However, that does not allow me to say it is right. As you said, lying is not honorable.
__________________
"The greatest evil is conceived and ordered in clean offices, by men with white collars. Hence, my symbol for Hell is the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern." --- C. S. Lewis
"Dr. Lewis, allow me to introduce to you, Mr Shaw & Jay Zygmunt.....oh, I see you've already met." HUbison
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