Fans Should Forgive and Forget With Jackson

[AvengerRam]

Originally Posted by HUbison

Nick, he signed a piece of paper that said he would do something. He then chose not to do it. That is dishonorable.

I tend to agree with this sentiment, though I do think there is another factor.

Steven Jackson was not the only one who wanted to re-negotiate now, rather than waiting until the contract ended. The Rams wanted to as well. Clearly, the team was in a better position negotiating with a year remaining as opposed to waiting until the contract ended, at which time the only way to ensure that Jackson wouldn't bolt to another team would be to franchise him (which is really not a good option for either the player or the team).

So, given that everyone wanted to end the rookie deal early and enter into a new deal, I won't blame Jackson for wanting a new contract. I do agree, however, that while the negotiations were ongoing, he should have been in camp.

[general counsel]

I agree Av, which is why i personally dont think that the desire to renegotiate is the issue for me and Hubison. I think that the issue is his refusal to perform/report while under contract. That is what we are calling dishonorable (and i am calling a breach). Both sides had an interest in renegotiating. The rams made what i believe 99% of people would view as a good faith offer (that would have made jackson one of the four highest paid backs). Very very few people here have criticized jackson for not taking that offer (me included). The point is with that offer on the table, it is dishonorable and selfish to not meet his contractual obligation to report to camp.

ramming speed to all

general counsel

[Chris58]

On the character issue: I raised five kids and heard "everybody else does it" more times than I care to remember. Oddly, just because everybody else was doing it still didn't make it right. As a result, none of my kids did what the others were doing, if it was wrong. Today they are all adults and thank me (and their mother) for making them toe the line. They all admit they are better people for it.

So as it applies to this case, I don't care if everybody in the nfl does it; holding out when you have a valid contract is wrong. SJ has hurt his character in the eyes of anyone who values the meaning of his word.

[RealRam]

No doubt there is more to it than Rams fans just 'forgiving and forgetting' this recent saga of Jackson. ...Top notch player Vs. team president. Contract and money responsibilities. Agreements. Guarantees. Personal perspectives, professional perspectives.

It's all in there and it's nothing new. Whether in sports or in labor scenarios, there are laws to abide.

Unfortunately, the more modern these disputes are, particularly in pro sports, the more players (especially the newer ones) see their opportunity to try to put their foot down in order to challenge the established contractual rules and, in some cases, outright shoot for greed.


With all the different issues and different cases during the past 25 years or so, apparently increasing season after season thanks also in a major part to the more "$avvy" agents ... to me, the matter continues to reverberate to the individual's mettle, the person's integrity.

Sure, all this inevitably slides into subjectivity and speculation but I still believe in those old school values -- and I do mean old -- that in my book, could 'oh, save so much time and avoid so much trouble!


Indeed, it has to do with the idiosyncrasy of the man that is "holding out" on an NFL team. The 'root cause' of the problem -- as they say in situational leadership when attempting to find a solution -- oftentimes lies within the individual that es expected to react responsibly. Today though, some infamous sports agents are also clear and proven accomplices.

And at the risk of sounding simplistic, that expected responsibility stems from personal integrity.

If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.

Do I think SJ is a man of little or twisted integrity? No. I believe he is a good man. Perhaps one more victim of modern day $ports ordeals, caught up in the business turmoil of his team. But it is a right of his to negotiate just as anyone of us can claim [some of us at least wi$h we would ask for a raise in our salary].

The testy factor is to truly believe whether the raise is deserved or not. Again, idiosyncrasies tend to complicate things a wee bit. As Steven matures and a few more years have gone by, there will be inner comparisons of his RB persona with others before him and contemporaries. Jax may not be reading ClanRam posts about him but rest assured he knows we have discussed his merits to those of Eric Dickerson and this former Rams own team turmoil.

That is why we keep going back to the 'current contract' SJ had under obligation to fulfill, at minimum by being present at training camp three weeks ago. I'd surmise it must have been difficult for Jackson too. Accordingly, I want to keep thinking he is in fact a man of honesty and integrity. [BTW, too much 'integrity' can be harmful as well; thus "Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise—why destroy yourself?". Ecl. 7-16]


Bottom line, I still have faith in Steven Jackson. For now, 'Welcome back!' ...I think he will be fine in terms of character and dedication to the Rams.

Now more than ever.

[moloch41]

Well, besides for the whole not honoring the contract thing, there's also the fact that all he had to do was show up to camp to get negotiates going again, but still held out all this time. This whole thing would have been a non-factor, non news-making item if he had just done that.

[powerjack39]

He's my favorite football player, and I am not unhappy with him at all and am pumped to have him back. Woot!

I don't think holding out is the best thing to do, but you can't be sure if that was the right course of action or not without knowing how the Rams were playing the game on their side. Plus agents are always in a guys ear.

Glad its done.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by general counsel

The point that hubison and i are trying to make is that whether it is the way it is or not, it doesnt make it right and it doesnt make it honorable.

I don't think anyone was arguing that Jackson holding out was honorable. I simply disagree with labeling him as dishonorable because, at this point, he's basically one part of an established NFL system where everyone is looking out for themselves. Since I view the NFL from that standpoint, I'm not going to lower my opinion of a guy because he's protecting himself within that structure.

Originally Posted by general counsel

The fact that there are no consequences to jacksons actions simply embolden others to do the same thing.

I'm pretty sure there were 408,132 consequences to Jackson's decision to hold out.

Originally Posted by Chris58

SJ has hurt his character in the eyes of anyone who values the meaning of his word.

I think implying that some members don't put a value on a person's word simply because they haven't lessened their opinion of Steven Jackson in this instance is rather uncalled for.

It's entirely possible to debate and disagree about this issue without making these kinds of judgments about someone else's value system.

Originally Posted by moloch41

Well, besides for the whole not honoring the contract thing, there's also the fact that all he had to do was show up to camp to get negotiates going again, but still held out all this time. This whole thing would have been a non-factor, non news-making item if he had just done that.

It's entirely possible that he held out of camp for as long as he did simply because he didn't want to risk injury prior to having an agreement in place.

Many believe that, had he not held out, an agreement would have been reached fairly quickly. Maybe, maybe not. We've seen a number of camp and preseason injuries already through only a few weeks of the preseason. It's possible that Jackson felt that, had he reported and injured himself, it would hurt his bargaining position with the organization.

Perhaps to Jackson, $400k was a small price to keep himself injury free until a contract was finalized.

[RealRam]

Originally Posted by Nick

It's entirely possible that he held out of camp for as long as he did simply because he didn't want to risk injury prior to having an agreement in place.

Many believe that, had he not held out, an agreement would have been reached fairly quickly. Maybe, maybe not. We've seen a number of camp and preseason injuries already through only a few weeks of the preseason. It's possible that Jackson felt that, had he reported and injured himself, it would hurt his bargaining position with the organization.

Perhaps to Jackson, $400k was a small price to keep himself injury free until a contract was finalized.

Very interesting possibility, I agree.

But I also agree with your 'maybe, maybe not' supposition on the fairly quick contract agreement. Who knows?

That's why I am taking a big benefit-of-doubt posture in favor of Jackson despite the temporary disappointment he caused me. I simply don't know his true motives -- other than the assumed mountain of money -- and, for now, I'll settle in trusting his RB game for the 2008 Rams.

Or else he and I will have a man to man, eye to eye talk!

[general counsel]

Interesting question. Is he going to pay the fine or did the rams waive it as part of the new deal. I havent read one way or another. Has anyone seen anything definitive on this?

Ramming speed to all

general counsel

[Chris58]

Originally Posted by Nick

I think implying that some members don't put a value on a person's word simply because they haven't lessened their opinion of Steven Jackson in this instance is rather uncalled for.

It's entirely possible to debate and disagree about this issue without making these kinds of judgments about someone else's value system.

I did not say anything about members' values systems. I maintain that people who value the integrity of their word would feel a loss of respect for the integrity of Jackson's word. He gave his word to play football for the Rams and heldout instead. IMO, all the justifications for his holdout are just equivocations by many to square the conflict between his actions and his word. If you don't have a problem with Jackson's holdout, and I get that feeling from your previous posts, that's you business. If you took personal offense at my post, none was meant.

[bigredman]

As a practitioner of Labor Law and reading the frustration expressed in this thread...I came to a revelation as I sat here and drank my martini...

The paradox that is the NFL has players that are both unionized, but are also independent contractors. Therein lies the rub. Some have said that players know what they are getting into when they sign those contracts, and they should live up to them. Well, the team also knows what they get themselves into as well when they acquire a player who could very well hold out or demand a trade the next year (can anyone say T.O.?). The teams however are also on the hook for sharing "X" amount of their revenue in player salaries, retirement system, etc and limited in their spending to generate revenue (salary cap, revenue sharing).

Bottom line. Don't cry any tears for either side. The owners are making money hand over fist. The players are getting paid very well by the team and sponsors gained from the fame the league provides them.

All this whimsical discussion about giving one's word or living up to one's commitment or obligation is naive in context with the business world. Make no mistake, running a team and playing for one is no different than any other business on Wall Street. How many companies have up and left whole communities to die to move overseas?

By the way...you'll never see guaranteed contracts in the NFL simply because there are not enough games in the season to sustain such a salary structure as in baseball and basketball and television revenue broadcasting them.

[RamFan_Til_I_Die]

Very well said BRM.

Have any of you considered how much of this hold out for forced on him by his agent and sister? Parker is known for his clients holding out. Do any of you think it coincidence that when Jackson threatened to fire him and find a new agent, that Jackson was back in camp and a deal done a few days later? I don't. I think these sleezeballs like Parker and Rosenhal are ruining sports much like Don King did boxing.

[general counsel]

Nothing was forced on him by anyone. Did he get bad advice? Of course. But he is an intelligent grown man. He made the decisions. No one held a gun to his head.

ramming speed to all

general counsel

[HUbison]

All this whimsical discussion about giving one's word or living up to one's commitment or obligation is naive in context with the business world.

True or not, irrelevant either way. As Chris said, the "everybody else does it" argument doesn't make it right.

I'm going to boil this down to the absolute base level: Steven Jackson lied. Lying is wrong.

In the words of Lt. Sam Weinberg, "all the rest of this is smoke-filled, coffeehouse crap."