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  1. #1
    HUbison's Avatar
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    A few random thoughts to ponder

    1. Hargrove will require patience. He has all the physical tools, but I don't think he has a clue when it comes to scheme and technique. This manifests itself in moments of brilliance (sheer physical talent winning the battle) and other times of hopeless misplacement (not understanding defense). I don't think he's a dummy or anything, but his maturity will elevate his skill level.....it just ain't gonna be overnight.

    2. I'm curious why Arch has become the whipping boy. It would have been very easy for him to roll over and play dead with his back injury, but he stuck it out and stayed on the field. He gets criticized for having no cover skills.....haven't we known that all along? Why would that make a difference now? We've got corners that can't cover any better, why get upset at a SS that can't cover?

    I've heard him criticized for missing tackles. He may miss some, but he makes a whole lot more than he misses. Every year, he is near the top of the league's DBs in tackles. Besides, which is worse....being in position to make a tackle and missing or being so far out of position that you don't even have the opportunity to miss the tackle? Arch may miss a few, but there are plenty on this team that can't even get in the right spot in the first place.

    3a. I wonder if Matt Leinert will enjoy moving from Southern California to Southern Texas?

    3b. How much of a shock to the system will it be for Leinert going from never losing to never winning?

    4. How did Hodges beat Barker in training camp?

    5. Kevin Curtis and Torry Holt have made Bruce expendable....and it tears my gut to say that. Bruce is still great, and I want him here for another decade. But the emergence of Curtis has de-valued Bruce, which is not to say Bruce has no value, but instead simply less value. Without Curtis, Bruce is easily a $4-6 mil/year receiver, but with Curtis, I'd say less than that. The question is, how much of a cut will Bruce be willing to take to stay here next year?

    6. What has happened to Travis Fisher? He's a 2nd round pick who appeared to be up-and-coming as a cover corner.......now he is (IMHO) the single biggest liability on the team. Personally, I think we've loaded our secondary with a bunch of nickel-backs and asked them to be man covers on the #1 and #2 receivers.

    7. I think Martz leaves after this season. The FO will make him an offer, but it won't be enough to keep him. The bigger driving factor will be his health. He will be done with this organization and done with the NFL. He will choose the quieter life and retire temporarily. However, he will get offers from both San Diego St. and San Jose St. to be their head coach. He will weigh his options and accept the SDSU job and spend the rest of his days at his home on the coast.

    8. My pick for the Rams first round draftee..........VT corner Jimmy Williams.

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #2
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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    My pick for the Rams first round draftee..........VT corner Jimmy Williams.
    Preaching to the choir.

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    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by ZigZagRam
    Preaching to the choir.
    It's just sad that currently we would pick high enough to do it.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    5. Kevin Curtis and Torry Holt have made Bruce expendable....and it tears my gut to say that. Bruce is still great, and I want him here for another decade. But the emergence of Curtis has de-valued Bruce, which is not to say Bruce has no value, but instead simply less value. Without Curtis, Bruce is easily a $4-6 mil/year receiver, but with Curtis, I'd say less than that. The question is, how much of a cut will Bruce be willing to take to stay here next year?
    Woah you are killing me here, that cuts real deep. I can't and won't call him expendable yet. No question he will have to take a pay cut. And yes I'm very biased towards Bruce (that's pretty easy to see LOL) but I still think his value exceeds what we pay him. I hope he takes some sort of cut to stay, but I think his value goes beyond just being a great receiver.

    That's probably my heart talking but, I still believe it to be true.
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    Tre was running great against an awful NYG run defense. 5.8 YPC yet he only gets 13 carries. I can't wait until the Rams abandon you, Schotty.

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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    6. What has happened to Travis Fisher? He's a 2nd round pick who appeared to be up-and-coming as a cover corner.......now he is (IMHO) the single biggest liability on the team. Personally, I think we've loaded our secondary with a bunch of nickel-backs and asked them to be man covers on the #1 and #2 receivers.
    Bingo Hub!

    I still don't know why they didn't bring in someone more physical once Butler went down. And even after the last 5 games they did nothing to address this prior to the trade deadline.

    I say, put in Johnson, and Bartell, see what they can do.
    JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS


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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    8. My pick for the Rams first round draftee..........VT corner Jimmy Williams.
    Come on now, you know they're already looking at Reggie Bush.......
    JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS


    "HIT HARD, HIT FAST, AND HIT OFTEN"
    Adm. William "Bull" Halsey

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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    2. I'm curious why Arch has become the whipping boy. It would have been very easy for him to roll over and play dead with his back injury, but he stuck it out and stayed on the field. He gets criticized for having no cover skills.....haven't we known that all along? Why would that make a difference now? We've got corners that can't cover any better, why get upset at a SS that can't cover?
    Can only speak for myself on this. What do you say in missouri....Show Me

    Well I have been waiting for Arch to do just that since he was a rookie. Not a season has went by that I have not questioned his play at times. So, it is not a "has become" situation for me.



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    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    I agree with ferter on arch. the issue isnt that arch stinks, its that he has not stepped up and improved at all and in some ways is not as good as he was when he was a rookie. His pass coverage hasnt improved much at all and his tackling is worse.

    I dont call arch a whipping boy, to me, i bring him up in the context of the cap and what we will do in the future. i am happy to have him back at short money, my point is that he is NOT a core player on the defense. He is a core player on THIS defense because we stink, but on a going forward basis, he is replaceable.

    ramming speed to all

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    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    i am happy to have him back at short money, my point is that he is NOT a core player on the defense
    Ah, I smell a good conversation brewing. Here's my question......should Arch be the highest paid member of our current secondary?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  10. #10
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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    Here's my question......should Arch be the highest paid member of our current secondary?
    Only if the rest are making minimum salary.

  11. #11
    AJD45 Guest

    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    I think we've loaded our secondary with a bunch of nickel-backs and asked them to be man covers on the #1 and #2 receivers.
    It's worse than that. To put the secondary into perspective, Dwight Anderson was probably going to be our nickel when he was cut for missing curfew in the preseason. He was picked up by Carolina and did not make their team -- i.e., our 5th-best DB is not even good enough to be on most NFL rosters, let alone be actually on the field playing. Maybe they still have Anderson's phone number someplace..?

    I thought Groce was particularly awful against Reggie Wayne with his "stand there and only move after he catches yet another slant pass" technique. What's the deal, Groce? He didn't say "Simon says"? Look, if you get beat, fine, but at least go down guessing wrong or something that requires motion..!

    The offseason plan was to bring in a bunch of warm bodies to see who would step up and become a decent DB, but it seems that it's a contest of who can step down as the worst week after week.

  12. #12
    AJD45 Guest

    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    Kevin Curtis and Torry Holt have made Bruce expendable...
    What's the Rams' record without Bruce?

  13. #13
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    1. I agree completely. Consider that Hargrove played only 24 games in college, and was ruled inelligible for the 2003 season. He's not exactly got a lot of experience under his belt, so expecting greatness from him off the bat is unrealistic and unfair. He's in the same boat as Bartell - has the physical tools, but is raw and will need some time to really develop and grow.

    2. Some have nailed it on the head in that Arch really hasn't made a lot of strides since coming into the league. His coverage is still weak and hasn't improved much. He is coming back from a hefty back injury, but has been taking some poor angles at times. I don't think he's a whipping boy for the defense, but I haven't seen much out of Arch that's made me think the Rams desperately need to resign him after this season.

    3a&b. You think the Texans take Leinart? I think they take Ferguson or Winston to shore up the O-line.

    4. Heck if I know. The Rams probably just assumed Hodges would progress and get better. He did kick some decent balls at times, but those were outnumbered by the ones he didn't kick well, especially in the clutch.

    5. Expendable, perhaps. But would we really want to do that? Right now we have arguably the best WR duo in the league in Holt/Bruce, and as a third receiver, we have Curtis, who could start for probably a majority of teams in the league. I'd much rather have the Rams with Bruce than without, but you make a good point that the price tag is probably a bit steep. Hopefully he does what Marshall did and signs a deal that helps us out while allowing him to remain a Ram.

    6. Ask me going into 2004, and I would insist that Travis Fisher is the best cornerback we have on our team and that Jerametrius Butler belongs in the slot in nickel packages. 24 games later, and I've had my full of crow. Butler, whom I still question in terms of run support, has shown his worth to this team while Fisher has me scratching my head. He's had a great opportunity to step up in Butler's absense but hasn't done well at all.

    7. I'm not so sure, but it wouldn't surprise me. I would really just have to wonder where the Rams go if Martz retires. If they bring in a new coach, does that coach keep the offense as is and has Fairchild run it and continue to develop it in the coming years, or does he change the offense and try his own cup of tea?

    8. I'm not a huge fan of his, but he's the best corner in this draft, and it certainly looks like we need help at the position and could be in a slot to draft him. Of course, that all changes if we somehow pull off an acquisition of a corner in free agency, though I doubt that happens. I wouldn't rule out help in the front seven on draft day, though. The Rams need another playmaker on defense somewhere, and if Williams is gone when we pick, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rams take a linebacker, given the number of great prospects coming out this year (Brooks, Hawk, Greenway, Hodge).
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  14. #14
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    AJ, groce is playing with an injured knee because we dont have anyone else as good to play in his place at this point. he was questionable all week and showed a lot of guts just being out on the field. We have plenty of problems on defense, groce isnt one of them.

    ramming speed to all

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    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: A few random thoughts to ponder

    3a&b. You think the Texans take Leinart? I think they take Ferguson or Winston to shore up the O-line.
    I think the David Carr experiment is over. Not that it's Carr's fault, the Texans problems at O-line (and we think we have problems) has ruined the boy. His jersey gets dirtier than a ditch digger. Carr's a FA, and I think he walks.
    Expendable, perhaps. But would we really want to do that?
    Yea, after some thought, my choice of wording wasn't proper. I shouldn't say expendable, like we can just cast him aside. Instead, I should say his value has depreciated with the emergence of Curtis. All I'm saying is regardless of his own injury, Bruce's value now is not as great as it was at the beginning of the season.
    I'm not a huge fan of his, but he's the best corner in this draft
    How drastically different could our nickel package look at the corners next year?
    2005 - Travis Fisher (5'10" 190), Groce (5'10" 190), Ivy (5'10" 185)
    2006 - J. Butler (5'10" 185), Jimmy Williams (6'3" 210), Bartell (6'1" 210)
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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