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  1. #16
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    Re: Fisher-Bartell injury updates

    Well, we (in general, not everyone, okay? OK!?! ) ... wanted Tye Hill to start and we got our wish. He was beaten fair and square on a couple of big passes, one of them for the Packers TD in the 4th Qtr that seriously threatened our lead.

    He also dropped a Favre would-be INT in the 2nd half but on that play I think I saw another Ram come in and distract Hill, which made it very hard to catch. Not sure when it occurred.

    I trust No. 26 will have learned from this game. Substantially. :r He's a rookie.


  2. #17
    shortman1984 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Fisher-Bartell injury updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    One, how far off the ball a guy plays is a scheme issue. A player's position on the field is going to be determined both by the play that's called, the situation the team is in, and where on the field he actually is. I seriously doubt a defensive coordinator just leaves a guy's technique and position completely up to him as you suggest.

    Two, again, where's the support? Saying he gets beat all day and misses tackles is a vast misrepresentation that you provide no support for. IMO, the only game where Fisher has played poorly was against Boldin in Arizona, but Boldin is one of the best young receivers in the game. So other than that, when has he consistently missed tackles? When has he really gotten beat all day? Point me to some plays this season to support those claims if you're going to make them.




    So Bartell played much better than Fisher because he didn't get burned and had some break-ups (NFL.com play by play only credits him with one). But Fisher didn't get burned either to my recollection and also had a clutch break-up. So again, I don't see where Bartell played much better here...?

    It's hard to judge either of these guys in this contest on limited time, but I simply did not get the impression that Bartell was significantly better than Fisher today. I would think if Bartell was so much better in general, the Rams wouldn't have moved him to a new position this summer.
    Uh but didnt he say Bartell played much better than fisher has all year.. In reality that wouldnt be hard...He didnt say Bartell played better in this game than Fisher did in this game... Plus i didnt get to watch it on TV or anything but i heard it on the radio and I heard Bartell's name quite a bit... And i think NFL.com's play by play is wrong, cuz i swear i heard them atleast say Bartell's name twice on a break up...

  3. #18
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Fisher-Bartell injury updates

    Quote Originally Posted by shortman1984 View Post
    Uh but didnt he say Bartell played much better than fisher has all year.. In reality that wouldnt be hard
    What he said was Bartell looked better in this game than Fisher has all year, yes. But when asked to support it, there's no evidence provided regarding Fisher's play or why Bartell's has been much better. Just more claims of poor play. Claims without support do not equal a convincing argument. I'm more than willing to be convinced on this issue, but you've got to give me the examples of how Fisher has, as RF16 described it, been getting beat all day and missing tackles, because I haven't seen it. Show it to me, and I'll believe it.

    But without the evidence, these claims just rin empty. For instance, RF16 complained about Fisher playing ten yards off the line, but I've seen every one of our corners do that. It's a scheme/technique issue. I'm sitting here watching the video of the Cardinals game as I write this post, and three minutes into the game on a Cardinals 3rd and 7, all our CBs (Brown, Fisher, and Hill) are giving cushions of 8+ yards. Heck, halfway through the fourth quarter, on a key 4th & 5 play, Fahkir Brown gives Larry Fitzgerald ten yards of cushion. Fitz ended up converting on a quick slant to keep the drive alive. It's done by everyone in order to try and keep receivers in front of them and prevent big plays, yet Fisher gets blamed for it as if it's his fault alone. So that criticism isn't going to hold ground at all, and honestly it only took five minutes of actually watching a game to refute it.

    Did Fisher make mistakes against Arizona, which I think is probably considered by many to be his worst game this season? Definitely. Late in the second quarter, he couldn't bring Boldin down on a quick slant and had no safety help behind him because Chavous was blitzing. He also missed a tackle on Bryant Johnson on a quick out that turned into a big gain.

    But did he stink it up the whole game? Absolutely not. From a coverage standpoint, prior to that play I thought he was playing well. There was a key 2nd and 4 where Warner scrambled outside the pocket and hit Boldin and Fisher brought him down right at the point of contact by himself (it should be noted highly-paid defensive standout Will Witherspoon missed an easy sack on that play). And after missing Johnson on the quick out, Fisher sprinted down the field to catch up with Johnson in order to bring him down to try and make amends for the miss. After that, I don't recall one error from him. Of course no one mentions any of that.

    Let's also not forget to give the Cardinals credit - they have one of the best young WR duos in the league. Fisher is criticized for his missed tackles in that game. Is Atogwe? Because he missed a clutch tackle on Boldin as well that went for a big gain. Are Carter and Hill? Because they both gave poor efforts in trying to tackle Larry Fitzgerald on a play that resulted in a TD.

    The point I'm trying to make is that no defender is perfect and all of them make mistakes from time to time. Furthermore, like it or not, sometimes the opposing players just win match-ups. It's unrealistic to think a player should be able to play perfect football and win all their match-ups all the time. Een the great Orlando Pace gets beat from time to time, and even Marshall Faulk got stuffed on occasion. Fisher has made his share of mistakes, but other defenders have as well, so throwing Fisher under the bus for mistakes being made by multiple players seems like an inconsistent argument to me.

    I guess when I go back and revisit what Fisher is actually doing, I just don't see where the guy is playing nearly as horrible as some fans make it out to be, which is why I'm asking for the evidence instead of just broad claims with nothing to back them up. I mean, if the claims are true, it shouldn't be too hard to provide numerous examples to support them, wouldn't you think?


    Quote Originally Posted by shortman1984 View Post
    And i think NFL.com's play by play is wrong, cuz i swear i heard them atleast say Bartell's name twice on a break up...
    Well, both NFL.com and ESPN.com credit Bartell with one pass deflection, so that's what I'm going with. It's the best hard evidence as to what acually happened that we have short of the game tape.
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  4. #19
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    Re: Fisher-Bartell injury updates

    So it's been three days now, and still no actual supporting evidence for the claims about Fisher's play.

    I guess we can put those claims to rest then?
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  5. #20
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    Re: Fisher-Bartell injury updates

    I'd say so. Or at least until the postmortem after this weekend's game................

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