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  1. #1
    majorram's Avatar
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    Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    It looks like Miller and Carter will be cut by the Titans, I don't know about any body else but i would love to have Rt Miller back there...

    1) he will come at a good price
    2) good value
    3) he knows the Rams O

    anybody else agree......

    and what about Carter?????? me probably not after he suked through the 2000 season but Miller I would welcome back!!!!

    thoughts!!!

    steve :ramlogo:


  2. #2
    theodus69 Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    Carter just had a problem as a young lad wanting more then he was worth!He has been humbled now! Might be good to bring back some experience on both sides of the line.

  3. #3
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    In the media blitz announcing the trade, Titans head coach Jeff Fisher was asked by a reporter about Kevin Carter’s quitting on his team mates. The reporter inferred that Carter admittedly quit on his team.

    It remains a mystery why Jeff Fisher could not see this fast ball of a question coming but regardless of weather he was prepared or not, he lost all respectability when he stated, “Well it was one of those things where it wasn’t Kevin’s fault or the Rams fault”. I only wish that reporter had the ability to process the answer quickly enough to ask the obvious follow up question which would be:
    “So then coach your saying that there is a time when it is ok to quit on your team?”

    So far as I am concerned I would rather have Tony Banks back then Kevin Carter. strike that... I don't want that quitter near a rams uniform.

  4. #4
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    Miller, yes... if he signs at close to the vet's minimum. Carter, no.
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  5. #5
    AugustaRamFan Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    Miller can add depth and be good mentor, Carter - not no, but hell no!

  6. #6
    moklerman Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    Miller would be an interesting idea but I just have too many memories of him playing poorly in 1999. He was the start of the RT carousel the Rams have been on the past few years. Obviously, with the additional experience, playing time and success he's had in Tennessee, he's probably an entirely different player than he was in 1999 so it's hard to say.

    Of course, an experienced veteran who isn't retired, over the hill or hobbled by injuries would be an improvement so taking a guy who's at the very least familiar with the Martz system would be advantageous to a similarly talented player coming in and having to learn the system. It seems like every year the Rams are having to deal with the line learning to play together or learn the system in general the first half of the season and it would be nice to not have to witness that again in 2005.

    The guy I wouldn't mind seeing back on the Rams, who doesn't seem to be mentioned in the Titans salary cap purge, is Robert Holcombe. I always though James Hodgins, as good as he was, was a downgrade from RH. I don't know if Holcombe's got an gas left in the tank but he has great hands for a fullback, again, knows the system, is as good a blocking fullback as anything we've got, might come at a decent price and would give Bulger another option in the passing game (Goodspeed, etc. don't seem to contribute in that way).

    If you wanted to get really nostalgic, you could almost reunite all the major players of the 1999 Rams. Warner, Hakim, Miller, Carter, Holcombe, Proehl and Conwell (probably others too) are available. It seems unusual to me that all these players' contracts are working out to them being available at the same time.

  7. #7
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    The guy I wouldn't mind seeing back on the Rams, who doesn't seem to be mentioned in the Titans salary cap purge, is Robert Holcombe. I always though James Hodgins, as good as he was, was a downgrade from RH. I don't know if Holcombe's got an gas left in the tank but he has great hands for a fullback, again, knows the system, is as good a blocking fullback as anything we've got, might come at a decent price and would give Bulger another option in the passing game (Goodspeed, etc. don't seem to contribute in that way).
    I don't consider Holcombe that strong of a blocking fullback, certainly not as good as Goodspeed or Hodgins, IMO. Hodgins was pretty one dimensional in that role, and Holcombe does provide a better weapon out of the backfield. Still, I think at 5'11" and 220 pounds and nearing the age of 30, he's not going to open many holes for Jackson or Faulk, and his use as a weapon out of the backfield isn't good enough, in my opinion, to warrant going after him.

    The guy I wish we could have drafted last year was Arizona State fullback Mike Karney, but the Saints took him before we could. I think he would have been a nice fit for us because of his combination of strong blocking skills and soft hands. But oh well.

    This upcoming draft has some interesting young guys at fullback, if we're looking at upgrading that position in the later rounds. Someone like UCLA's Manuel White would fit the bill of a multi-dimensional fullback that's sort of in the Holcombe mold, whereas guys like Washington's Zach Tuiasosopo or Penn State's Paul Jefferson are more traditional lead blockers.
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  8. #8
    moklerman Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    I don't know that I'd consider Goodspeed anything more than a warm body at fullback. He's pro-caliber but nothing special. Hodgins was known as "the hammer" but even with his blocking skills he, like you said is one-dimensional in that role.

    Holcombe, to me, offers the most in all areas. Blocking (good enough, especially since the Rams are NEVER going to operate a conventional running game under Martz), running (better than Hodgins or Goodspeed by far. Can fill in as a rb if needed), receiving (one of his strenghts as a player and a major point of contribution in the Rams offense) and familiarity of the Martz system (could contribute right away, rather than having to spend time on the bench or scaling back the offense to wait for his learning curve).

    I don't think any draft picks or veterans are comparable to what he has to offer IF he's still healthy enough to play. He should be fairly affordable, although more expensive than a mid/late round draft pick, which would make him well worth the money to me.

    If I'm buying into the Martz system then I might as well buy into it and that means that our FB can't be one-dimensional. Our red zone struggles, I think, are very linked to the fact that our TE and FB are non-factors in that area.

  9. #9
    sbramfan Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    But, if you realize that the running game of Steven Jackson will be more downhill than with Faulk (aka a POWER running game) then you would look to a one dimensional Hodgins type player. True, when the Fullback goes in, it would basically be saying "yes, we're going to run....but can you stop us?".

    But that is also where the play action will work like a charm.

    ...Just as an afterthought, I also can see using a Holcombe type and being more fast and furious, but I think they have to decide how much they want to committ to pounding the rock next year, and what their O'line looks like. With a better O'line, perhaps the Holcombe/Fast and Furious. With question marks on the O'line (very likely the case), perhaps go for the better lead blocker.

  10. #10
    moklerman Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    But, if you realize that the running game of Steven Jackson will be more downhill than with Faulk
    Logically speaking, I know what you mean. But this is Martz we're talking about and I just don't think that we'll ever see a dedicated, Steelers-like rushing attack from the Rams under Martz. To me, it's like asking John Robinson to institute a passing attack. It's just not likely.

    Also, with Jackson having durabilty question marks I don't think the Rams will benefit from having a non-factor in the backfield. Get someone who blocks "good enough" and utilize him as another possible weapon. The best fullback in the world isn't going to solve the running game's limitations and Martz will be Martz so I say go with Fast and Furious.

    Like I said earlier, the elimination of two different options, the more that I have thought about it, has probably hindered the red zone offense more than anything else. Obviously the o-line needs work but in the Greatest Show days every eligible player was a threat. Jeff Robinson, Ernie Conwell, etc. Now, Manu is virtually non-exsistent in the red zone and Goodspeed never touches the ball. Cleeland provided a very memorable catch from his TE spot at the end of the year but in general was under-used as well.

    Good TE's aren't impossible to find (Eric Johnson, Jason Witten, Antonio Gates) and I think with a good TE and a fullback that gives you options like Holcombe, the Rams red zone worries would quickly turn into red zone efficiencies.

  11. #11
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Our red zone struggles, I think, are very linked to the fact that our TE and FB are non-factors in that area.
    I think you're overestimating Holcombe's talent as a lead blocker, to be honest. I would argue that one of the key reasons our red zone offense isn't up to par is because we're unable to successfully (also read: consistently) run the ball inside the twenty. A dominant blocking fullback would help pave the way more than a decent blocker who can also run and catch. I just don't see how you can say Goodspeed is a warm body but Holcombe blocks "good enough." That analysis seems backwards to me. Goodspeed is by no means a great player, but I grade him as a better lead blocker than Holcombe, even though Holcombe probably makes a better overall package.
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  12. #12
    moklerman Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    I would argue that one of the key reasons our red zone offense isn't up to par is because we're unable to successfully (also read: consistently) run the ball inside the twenty.
    I don't remember the Rams ever having a good running game inside the 20 under Martz. That's not the Martz philosophy. Mismatches and situational running is what he does and a prototypical, one-dimensional fullback is a waste in this offense.
    That analysis seems backwards to me. Goodspeed is by no means a great player, but I grade him as a better lead blocker than Holcombe, even though Holcombe probably makes a better overall package.
    I don't know how we could ever really grade their blocking with anything tangible but I haven't seen any blocking by Goodspeed that was so much better than Holcombe might do. I'm not arguing Holcombe is a top notch blocking fullback and Goodspeed might actually be better but not nearly enough to make up for what else Holcombe brings to the table. The Rams don't run conventional running plays nearly enough to justify having a fulltime, one-dimensional fullback as far as I'm concerned.

    Whether it's Holcombe or someone else, the Rams need to re-incorporate what used to make them successful. Since defenses are playing to take away the deep passes and big plays I think the offense should develop the short/underneath game and force the defense to respect the possibility of someone other than the rb or wr's scoring a td.

  13. #13
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    Well, if the Rams do decide to bring in a multi-dimensional fullback, I hope it's a young talent that we'll be able to utilize for many seasons.
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  14. #14
    moklerman Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    Well, if the Rams do decide to bring in a multi-dimensional fullback, I hope it's a young talent that we'll be able to utilize for many seasons.
    I used to think along those same lines but I don't know anymore. I think a performance/incentive based contract for a couple/few years is the way to go anymore. Look at the mess we're in with Warner/Faulk/Bruce, etc.

    In a perfect world that would be nice but of course injuries and trusting ownership are the monkey's in that wrench.

  15. #15
    theodus69 Guest

    Re: Fred Miller and Kevin Carter???

    Quote Originally Posted by AugustaRamFan
    Miller can add depth and be good mentor, Carter - not no, but hell no!
    Carter ,yeah you are right No way. Miller would be cheap and would help also! Good to see a tribesman of the negative tribe! :redface:

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