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  1. #1
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Fisher 11.5 sacks last 22 games.
    Hargrove 3 sacks last 21 games.

    Hargrove has not impressed me he is an athletic DE not a good one at this point he has a long way to go. He has not proven to be our long term DE solution. Regardless of stats I just don’t see him around the ball enough. Until after the play is almost blown dead and then he runs over and tries getting his mug on TV. I would like to see Green more to evaluate him.

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    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -12-10-2005 at 02:24 PM.


  2. #2
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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    I would like to see more of Green, as well. He certainly seems to make the most of the limited playing time he does get.



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    rampete is offline Registered User
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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    whoa...aren't you missing a critical point here?

    how many years did fisher play in the league prior to his "emergence" last season?

    give hargrove a break...this is his true sophomore season in this league and though he may not be a great player yet, he has the potential to develop into one in a few years...hell, it took little four years before he even became a starter...

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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Quote Originally Posted by rampete
    whoa...aren't you missing a critical point here?

    how many years did fisher play in the league prior to his "emergence" last season?

    give hargrove a break...this is his true sophomore season in this league and though he may not be a great player yet, he has the potential to develop into one in a few years...hell, it took little four years before he even became a starter...
    I think Green should start,because hes better than Hargrove.Green is a rookie and kicking butt.If you have to say Hargrove needs more time to develope to me that means second string,spell Green now and then.
    Now thinking of Hargrove;I think the guy would make an outstanding linebacker,better than Chillar.
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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Green is a rookie and kicking butt.
    Green played in Jacksonville last season. He's not a rookie.

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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJackson39
    Green played in Jacksonville last season. He's not a rookie.
    I stand corrected, but hes still a better DE than Hargrove.As a matter of opinion,Green would probably be a better linebacker than Hargrove.
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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJackson39
    Green played in Jacksonville last season. He's not a rookie.
    "played" is a relative term. Green appeared in 3 games last year on special teams.....not exactly a seasoned vet.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #8
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Quote Originally Posted by rampete
    whoa...aren't you missing a critical point here?

    how many years did fisher play in the league prior to his "emergence" last season?

    give hargrove a break...this is his true sophomore season in this league and though he may not be a great player yet, he has the potential to develop into one in a few years...hell, it took little four years before he even became a starter...
    I think the critical point is that every player on every team has potential. We are loaded with players with potential. Potential does not win games. When you start classifying players as having potential that means they are not playing good right now. I also have potential tonight of being a millionaire because I bought two tickets for the Powerball lottery tonight its up to $340 million dollars. A lot of people said Hargrove was going to be better this year then Fisher I don’t think he is. I also think Green may have more potential then Hargrove but we don’t know until we give him a chance. I have not given up on Hargrove but I also think he has had adequate time this year to prove his value this year to the team and Green has not.

    As for Fisher his first year as a starter was last year and he had 8.5 sacks. Hargrove is on pace for 5 sacks in his first year as a starter and the bigger problem is he is not around the ball enough.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -10-19-2005 at 07:58 PM.

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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Those stats are worthless. Fisher has seen much more playing time than Hargrove has.

    As stated before, Fisher is also a vet of several years. Hargrove's in his second year.

    This post serves no purpose without credible evidence.

  10. #10
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Let me start off by repeating the title of this thread:
    Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did
    Nowhere does this say anything about youth or potential. It’s a direct comparison of performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZigZagRam
    Those stats are worthless. Fisher has seen much more playing time than Hargrove has.
    Take away the stats which type of player would you rather have Hargrove this year or Fisher last year?
    For me its Fisher last year.
    As stated before, Fisher is also a vet of several years. Hargrove's in his second year.
    I said I have not given up but some people said in preseason we would be better off with Hargrove this year then we were with Fisher last year that is not the case.

    This post serves no purpose without credible evidence.
    If stats from last year for Fisher and stats from this year of Hargrove are not credible evidence to say that we are not as good this year at that position as we were last year then just turn on your TV ZIG the evidence will be clear.:tongue:
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -10-19-2005 at 07:44 PM.

  11. #11
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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Quote Originally Posted by ZigZagRam
    This post serves no purpose without credible evidence.
    Here we go again with this statistics crap. Numbers will say whatever you want them to say. Look long enough, hard enough, you'll find something that supports your position - regardless of what it is.

    It doesn't matter who you think is better, neither of them have been or are worth a double team. Neither of them have adequately replaced Wistrom. And that doesn't say much either because his last couple of years tailed off in terms of sacks and TOs forced. So in my mind they all have been dogs over the long haul.

    You need pressure today. Sacks today. Tackles today. None of them delivered to the point of saying, "hey we need to double team that monster over that at right end."

    Should have bid for Kearsey. Even the RFA Ogundele-however-you-spell-his-name would have been worth the risk at the time rather than keep holding out hope that these journeymen are going to deliver if you just give them one more year.

    What the stats show is that they all have stunk. Will Green do better? He can't do worse.

  12. #12
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Quote Originally Posted by adarian_too
    What the stats show is that they all have stunk. Will Green do better? He can't do worse.
    I will agree with that I am tired of always waiting on potential because we are partial to one guy. Hargrove has had 6 games to hold off his competition for the starting job and he did not do a good job of holding them off. If Green fails so be it at least it shows Hargrove that more is expected from that starting position. It seemed to light a fire under his ass in the preseason why not try it again. We have a backup in Green that might be better but we don’t know because we are holding out for Mr. Potential.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -10-19-2005 at 08:10 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    [QUOTE=STLRAMSFAN] I would like to see Green more to evaluate him.
    [QUOTE]

    I would like to see more of Green as well. In the run stops he made the other night, one was for a 4 yard LOSS against Rhodes, one was a 1 yard LOSS (although it was negated by a penalty), another for a 1 yard loss against Edge. The one thing that raised an eyebrow with me were that these were all in the middle. The 4 yard loss against Rhodes.....wasn't that the hit that made all us say "Ouch"?
    [SIGPIC]http://www.stickershoppe.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/MLRPANCmini.jpg[/SIGPIC]This is for Randy! GO BRM!

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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Quote Originally Posted by A2
    Here we go again with this statistics crap.
    Well since you asked so nicely, here's some more numbers for you.

    Through their first 6 games of the season....
    2004 Bryce Fisher (age 27) - 18 tackles, 1.5 sacks
    2005 Tony Hargrove (age 22) - 17 tackles, 2 sacks

    I know patience is a dirty word to some people, but seriously guys, most guys his age are playing homecoming games and paying cheerleaders to take their midterms for them. He's a starter in the NFL.....a little patience will go a long way. He doesn't understand technique, schemes, reads, or defensive theory at all. All he knows right now is go hit the guy with the ball. Give him time, let him mature. If he has to platoon with Green, fine, but personally I think we're about to see a trip to the injury list for Little (he's playing like his back is worse than reported). Bottomline, Hargrove is still a kid and will take time. If we toss him to the side, some other team will thank us down the road.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  15. #15
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    Re: Hargrove not doing as good as Bryce Fisher did

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    Well since you asked so nicely, here's some more numbers for you.

    Through their first 6 games of the season....
    2004 Bryce Fisher (age 27) - 18 tackles, 1.5 sacks
    2005 Tony Hargrove (age 22) - 17 tackles, 2 sacks

    I know patience is a dirty word to some people, but seriously guys, most guys his age are playing homecoming games and paying cheerleaders to take their midterms for them. He's a starter in the NFL.....a little patience will go a long way. He doesn't understand technique, schemes, reads, or defensive theory at all. All he knows right now is go hit the guy with the ball. Give him time, let him mature. If he has to platoon with Green, fine, but personally I think we're about to see a trip to the injury list for Little (he's playing like his back is worse than reported). Bottomline, Hargrove is still a kid and will take time. If we toss him to the side, some other team will thank us down the road.
    Good points Bison. He is just a kid. I don't think we should kick him to the curb just yet and I don't think that is what STL was intending with this post.

    Didn't he only play one year in college? He has a great attitude to go along with the athleticism. Great DE's are hard to find in the NFL.

    Now can he play in a 3-4 scheme?



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