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  1. #1
    RamTime Guest

    Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    Don't bother asking why in the hell Kukar the head referee in SB 36 (from now on to be refered to as KooKoo) tried to talk another official out of the holding of Marshal Faulk when the Patriots picked up the ball and ran it back 99 yards just go with it.

    This is a snippet from a document I found on the web. Source for the entire document is below.


    [begin]
    Kukar: You understand the magnitude of it all; this is probably the premier sporting event in the world and that sets you mind thinking, Ok, you better get things done properly here. The last time I was involved with the Super Bowl, there were over 130 million viewers in the United States and a quarter of a billion, worldwide. You understand the impact that this game has worldwide.
    Referee: Was there any call in this Super Bowl that you wish you could have had back?
    Kukar: Absolutely not. The only play was the holding penalty after the Rams quarterback fumbled the ball and the Patriots ran it backs 99 yards for a touchdown; I certainly tried to talk the head linesman out of that penalty. I gave him every opportunity to back off but he held fast. He was convinced it was a hold and I kept hammering him. However, I did see it on television last night on the replay and it was definitely a hold. It was a good call.

    [end]
    For cryin out loud it's no damned wonder we lost.

    I want an interview with this clown.

    Source
    http://www.theeyman.com/Documents/Writings/Kukar.doc


  2. #2
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    Referee: What was your best Super Bowl"
    Kukar: Last night.

    OH MY GAWD

  3. #3
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    From another article.

    Three years later, Kukar was back at it in Super Bowl XXXVI, a unique event because of what had happened in New York City just a few months earlier.
    “It was the first big event after 9/11,” Kukar said. “The security there was unbelievable.”
    The opening coin toss provided a few laughs. Staubach and former President Bush were on hand to help get the game underway, but when asked, both absolutely refused to toss up the coin. Eventually, Kukar convinced Bush to do so and the rest of the evening went off as planned.
    “Here I was, telling the president of the United States what to do,” Kukar said with a smile. “That was quite a thrill.”

    Interesting choice of words don't you think?
    the rest of the evening went off as planned.

    Source http://www.virginiamn.com/placed/ind...tory_id=172351

  4. #4
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    Bernie Kukar will be the referee. He worked one Rams game this year and they lost at home to New Orleans, 34-31. He also called one Patriots game, which was their then-stunning 44-13 victory against the Colts in Week 3.

    Source http://www.thedailystar.com/sports/2.../02/spbob.html

  5. #5
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    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    You know Ramtime these little bits of information do get to me. I want to believe that the NFL is fair and that the best team wins, but this is a naive way of thinking... I know.

    I was at the game before the SuperBowl where the Patriots beat the Steelers. I was very surprised that the Patriots won that game. They seemed to win off of defensive plays. I did not see any up close coverage of the game. Have you done any research on that game to see if it was a fair win, if there were any shady calls, and who were the officials that refereed that game?

    yes... "the rest of the evening went off as planned", perhaps the season finished off as planned.
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  6. #6
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtterBlitz
    You know Ramtime these little bits of information do get to me. I want to believe that the NFL is fair and that the best team wins, but this is a naive way of thinking... I know.

    I was at the game before the SuperBowl where the Patriots beat the Steelers. I was very surprised that the Patriots won that game. They seemed to win off of defensive plays. I did not see any up close coverage of the game. Have you done any research on that game to see if it was a fair win, if there were any shady calls, and who were the officials that refereed that game?

    yes... "the rest of the evening went off as planned", perhaps the season finished off as planned.
    That is a very good question and the fact that it is sandwiched in between the Tuck game and the fixed superbowl game makes it all the more enticing. However I have no film. For that matter I only have 3 1/2 quarters of the superbowl to work with. It's a tivo copy of which my neighbor made for me (after he told me not to worry about taping the game cause he would take care of it) and when transferring it to VHS he fast forwarded through much of the first quarter. There are several plays from SB 36 that I have not seen since SB 36. I can only wonder what dark secrets those plays hold. So to make a short answer long No I have not because I don't have the necessary footage. I thought about searching the archives of message boards and news sites however I need to see it for myself. As you know controversial plays can be seen differently by different people.

    It is obvious that every disputable play in that SB must be conclusive before any of the meatheads will admit to the corruption. I just want to know why this game was fixed and if in fact were all a bunch of idiots for even watching football due to the fact that it may have been this way all along. The media goes on their rages over one play that decides the outcome of a game and with this game full of cheap shots, intentional grounding on the final drive no one in the media wants to ask the tough questions. I would love to interview this Kukar idiot. I mean think about what happened in that game the 24th ranked defense beat the greatest offense of all time and anyone can see there was blatant biased officiating but no one cares? I didn't watch the replay of that game until just a few months ago and now I'm not sure if I am glad that I watched it or not. Oh yea one more thing I have not mentioned yet is the noticeable lack of replay's that were shown during the game. I'd like to do a count of replays shown in SB 36 SB 37 SB 34 and a few other random Superbowls.

    Like Goldman hounding OJ Simpson for 25% of everything he earns due to the civil suit he won, I will be there to hound Patriot fans or anyone else that just doesn't know the facts about the fix that was 36.

    What people forget is this is a new age and with the internet as a tool the truth can be very powerful no matter how small the source or messenger. Can you imagine the money the NFL would lose if they did in fact nudge the head referee in that game?

  7. #7
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    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    After that game, whenever my non-Ram friends would chide me about the SB, I would always reply that the Rams being the great Americans they are, knew that during that immediate post-911 time span, the country needed national heros and who better than a team named the Patriots to do it. I, of course, was joking. RamTime makes me wonder if my attempt at humor was actually based in truth.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #8
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    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by RamTime
    Can you imagine the money the NFL would lose if they did in fact nudge the head referee in that game?
    There are large amounts of money being bet on these games. I am sure the people in Vegas would be very interested if there was any manipulation going on.

    My pittsburgh based brother is in town tonight. I will ask him if he has a tape of the game. He is pretty diehard. He probably has one. It would be interesting to take a look.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #9
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    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by RamTime
    Interesting choice of words don't you think?
    Not really, considering it's an event and a lot of planning went into it. The first post you made was much more intriguing, IMO.
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  10. #10
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Not really, considering it's an event and a lot of planning went into it. The first post you made was much more intriguing, IMO.
    OK that’s fair enough.
    I'm glad you responded Nick because you definitely make a great devils advocate and have caused me to look at a few things twice. I realize that I have a tendency to look at things through Blue and Gold goggles sometimes but I think that is normal given this situation. Nevertheless I appreciate the commentary on your part. That said I want to know what you mean by intriguing? Could it actually be true that you too smell a rat in all of this?

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    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by RamTime
    Could it actually be true that you too smell a rat in all of this?
    You've presented too much evidence for it to be ignored or shrugged off, IMO. The fact that Kukar would have not even called holding on the Faulk play seems suspicious to me, especially when you consider statements made by Willie McGinnest who claims that's how they played Faulk all day. If Kukar admits that specifically was a good call and Willie says that's how they played Faulk all day, you have to wonder where the other flags were.
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  12. #12
    gap Guest

    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    If someone is not afraid to be ridiculed to the point of defending yourself, and then getting banned, they ought to post this stuff on the self-righteous rampages email list.

    gap

  13. #13
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    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    After that game, whenever my non-Ram friends would chide me about the SB, I would always reply that the Rams being the great Americans they are, knew that during that immediate post-911 time span, the country needed national heros and who better than a team named the Patriots to do it. I, of course, was joking. RamTime makes me wonder if my attempt at humor was actually based in truth.
    That says it all for me. My close Ram bud and I have stated that since the day after, (Could be a good movie; The Day After, by Oliver Stone) the big fix. Just too many blown calls.

    the rest of the evening went off as planned.
    I wonder how much money kookoo made off of that game. :angryram:
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  14. #14
    theodus69 Guest

    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    The fact ,what happened happened is what really sucks and it can't be changed! Why you gotta keep opening up old stitches,LOL. I have enough of that problem in the morning!LOL! :football:

  15. #15
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Head ref tried to talk other official out of the penalty on fumble recovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by theodus69
    The fact ,what happened happened is what really sucks and it can't be changed! Why you gotta keep opening up old stitches,LOL. I have enough of that problem in the morning!LOL! :football:
    This is a good question and one that deserves an answer.
    Maybe the NFL has fixed games in the past. There sure is one whole hell of a lot of people who believe certain games were fixed right? The difference between those games and this one is most of those other games are a single play or a few controversial plays where in this game the talent gap was huge, the Patriots were the 24th ranked defense and the 2nd slowest defense in the NFL. You must remember how good this Rams offense was. It was one of the best in history so what gives? How did they do it? First of all they held our receivers, 2nd of all they were allowed to cheap shot our players, 3rd they allowed the patriots to ground the football on the final drive and nary was a word raised by anyone in the NFL friendly media. 4th they never bothered to look at a replay to see if the Patriot ball carrier got out of bounds and if he did, did he have control of the ball. Remember they stopped the Raider game to be sure they got the fumble/incomplete pass correct so why did they just assume their call was correct when it looks at minimum very close. Why did they allow the final seconds to run off the clock? It took Wilkins 5 seconds to kick a 50 yard field goal while it took Vaneteria 7 seconds to kick a 48 yard field goal. Wilkins kick went over the cross bar at 3:11 and the clock stopped at 3:10. Compare that to the Patriots FG which went over the cross bar at :03 and the officials never got around to stopping the clock. This was the end of the superbowl and one would think the clock would be stopped quicker or at least the same. The entire nation wondered about that final 2 seconds not just me. All this was gathered from a poor quality taping of the game. 95 percent of what was going on downfield is still a mystery and I can only imagine what the coach’s tapes hold. I think Martz was so pissed off at the NFL after that game it completely absorbed him in the off season. So to shut him up what do they do? They put him on the rules committee. What happens next? The NFL say's OK were going to start playing by the rules again. But of course they spun it to appear as if this grabbing receivers has been going on all along as if it were never enforced properly. Wipe away the spin and use common sense and what they are really saying is we only wanted the Rules to be broken long enough for someone to end the Rams rein at the top and now that we have done that were going to start enforcing the rules again. Sorry but common sense goes a long way with me and what the NFL/Media wants fans to believe fly’s in the face of it. There is just too much that point to corruption and it took a huge talent gap for it to be obvious to the average fan. Now the reason I won't let it go is because if this game is fixed and has been fixed then I have better things to do with my time then watch a different version of the world wrestling federation. The other reason I won't let it go is because I'm just getting started. Its funny that when some fans wondered what it was the ***** were doing to get top free agents to line up at their door and they were always willing to sign low ball contracts people such as myself in the face of stark criticism publicly wondered weather or not they were paying players under the table. Why? Common sense. We all know who turned out to be right in that case.
    Last edited by RamTime; -06-16-2005 at 05:57 AM.

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