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  1. #1
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    Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    By Bill Coats
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    Saturday, Aug. 02 2008

    MEQUON, Wis. — For nine years, wideouts Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt lined up
    together on the field as an explosive tandem in the Rams' offense, piling up
    catches, yards and records. In the offseason, they compared Pro Bowl
    experiences — four for Bruce, seven for Holt.

    All that changed Feb. 28, when Bruce, the last-standing "St. Louis" Ram, was
    released. He subsequently signed with the rival San Francisco *****.

    A week into the first training camp of his career without Bruce at his side,
    Holt conceded that he finds it "different."

    "But I guess I've vented that frustration," Holt said, smiling. "I'm happy for
    Isaac. But now I've moved on to the 2008 Rams."

    As usual, Holt figures to be a major cog in the attack. He's 32 and has battled
    knee problems for a couple of seasons; coach Scott Linehan limited his work
    during the Rams' two practices Friday at Concordia University.

    Yet Holt reports that his knee feels much better than it did a year ago, which
    probably explains why he's been prancing around like a young colt during camp.
    He's also been taking time to tutor the youngsters attempting to step into the
    void left by Bruce.

    "We have more young receivers that we're going to be counting on, and so you
    really want to see that," Linehan said. "It helps to have him encouraging those
    guys."

    Holt's influence isn't limited to receivers; recently, he stopped rookie
    offensive lineman John Greco in the lobby of Coburg Hall, where the players are
    housed, and spent about 10 minutes with him.

    That's something Bruce might have done.

    "I wish Isaac well; I wish he was here," Holt said. "But I have to work with
    the guys that we have. And we're going to go out and give it the best that
    we've got."

    HEALTHY AGAIN

    Three more players returned to the practice field Friday after missing time
    with injuries: center Brett Romberg (hand), cornerback David Macklin
    (hamstring) and wide receiver Marques Hagans (hamstring).

    Rookie cornerback Justin King left the morning workout early with tightness in
    his hamstring and stayed on the sideline in the afternoon. Linehan gave veteran
    defensive tackle La'Roi Glover the day off.

    JACKSON WATCH

    — Days out: 8

    — Practices missed: 12

    — Fine total: $120,000

    RAM-BLINGS

    As angry storm clouds rolled in, Linehan called off Friday afternoon's
    scheduled 90-minute practice about 35 minutes early. . . . The kickoff for
    today's scrimmage has been moved up to 9:50 a.m. Admission is free; on-campus
    parking is $5.


  2. #2
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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    JACKSON WATCH

    — Days out: 8

    — Practices missed: 12

    — Fine total: $120,000

    He will be in camp before Aug 8th. I dont think he will risk losing a year of eligibility. My fear is that if the Rams wait that long, and he is forced to camp without a contract, he will be so angry with the front office that he wont sign a new deal with us

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottD413 View Post
    JACKSON WATCH


    My fear is that if the Rams wait that long, and he is forced to camp without a contract, he will be so angry with the front office that he wont sign a new deal with us
    Yes he might be angry, but he knew the FO said no negotiations until he's in camp. (IMO) If he is upset he has no one to blame but himself. If he doesn't want to sign he'll get tagged at the end of the year.
    Last edited by AtlantaRamFan; -08-02-2008 at 01:56 PM.

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Not exactly a warm and fuzzy thread is it? While I agree with the FO's position at this point with Jackson, it also has to be noted that it got to this point in the first place. So, the two points in this thread? Bruce cut and possibly lied to. Jackson holding out because he isn't happy. The more things change....

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    So, the two points in this thread? Bruce cut and possibly lied to.
    I guess I'm not seeing where in this thread there is information that Bruce was lied to. Would you care to expand, Mok?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Wait, I thought veterans tutoring young players was a myth?

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    I guess I'm not seeing where in this thread there is information that Bruce was lied to. Would you care to expand, Mok?
    I thought it was all pretty much beat to death already. This line from the article reminded me of it though...
    "But I guess I've vented that frustration," Holt said, smiling.
    I don't have all the quotes from earlier articles but essentially Bruce restructured his deal a couple of years ago and the Rams tried to force him to restructure again instead of paying him what they promised. Pissed him off and he cut ties. Now he's in San Francisco.
    Last edited by moklerman; -08-02-2008 at 02:15 PM.

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Spending cap space on a slow, bad hands Bennett and a hobbled, injury prone, return specialist Hall instead of keeping Bruce will just go down in the annals as another classic move by the Rams and their infamous front office.

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    I thought it was all pretty much beat to death already. This line from the article reminded me of it though...

    I don't have all the quotes from earlier articles but essentially Bruce restructured his deal a couple of years ago and the Rams tried to force him to restructure again instead of paying him what they promised. Pissed him off and he cut ties. Now he's in San Francisco.
    Yes, I remember all that unfortunately. But you said the lying was one of the things to take from this thread. And I just couldn't find it in this thread. Had me confused, that's all.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    Spending cap space on a slow, bad hands Bennett and a hobbled, injury prone, return specialist Hall instead of keeping Bruce will just go down in the annals as another classic move by the Rams and their infamous front office.
    I won't pretend to know what actually transpired as to what the Rams allegedly promised Bruce .. The Rams possibly implied something, yet didn't actually promise .. We'll never know for sure other than there are two sides to every story ..

    I'll probably take a beating for saying this, but I think letting Isaac go was the right (not popular) thing to do. Sure the FO might have been less than gracious in just cutting him, but after all it's a business which is most profitable when a team is winning. We needed to get younger and faster at wr, and someone had to go to create an opening. Bennett may not have been the wisest move, but I believe it is too soon to tell. A healthy Bennett along with a healthy O-line should go a long way in helping determine whether or not Drew is worthy of his contract. Last year's plethora of O-line injuries led to the "hobbling" of our entire offense, preventing anyone from looking good - let's hope lightning doesn't strike the same spot twice ..

    Dante Hall "hobbled and injury prone?" Why single him out for getting hurt? If that's the criteria then our entire O-line is "hobbled and injury prone." I guess we squandered a bunch of money on Pace and Bulger too .. right? We didn't exactly break the bank for Dante, and until he got dinged, he looked solid. How quickly we forget how weak we were at his position for so long. This year he appears to be in great shape and could have a very strong year.

    I wish Isaac well, he was a great player for us and hopefully will retire as a Ram. For every great player though there comes a time to either hang it up, or move on .. I believe we needed an infusion of youth and speed, and the Rams FO and coaching staff obviously believed this as well.

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Bennett may not have been the wisest move, but I believe it is too soon to tell. A healthy Bennett along with a healthy O-line should go a long way in helping determine whether or not Drew is worthy of his contract.
    My problem is, if Bennett stays healthy and somehow overcomes his bad hands, he's likely not going to surpass what Bruce would have done given the same consideration for better conditions. Bruce wasn't the problem on offense or at WR. He was handled as such.
    Dante Hall "hobbled and injury prone?" Why single him out for getting hurt?
    Because we're talking about WR's that the Rams kept in favor of Bruce. Hall wasn't just hurt last year either. He's been having more and more problems and there were many in KC who weren't sad to see him go. Keeping a return specialist who hasn't been able to stay healthy over Isaac Bruce is what I'm disappointed about. As much as I like the idea of Hall running back long returns, giving the Rams good field position, I'd have quickly sacrificed those fantasies and kept Bruce if given the choice. Especially in hindsight. Hall will be 30 years old this year and has been hurt the past two season. For me, I'd rather see Bruce retire a Ram than roll the dice on Hall performing to his contract on special teams if I had a choice.

    When you add to that the Rams drafted Avery, who if he pans out, makes Hall completely worthless on offense, it seems like a bad move all the way around. Remember, the Rams saved a whopping $1 million dollars when all was said and done. Wasn't worth the penny pinching to axe Bruce.

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    My problem is, if Bennett stays healthy and somehow overcomes his bad hands, he's likely not going to surpass what Bruce would have done given the same consideration for better conditions.
    Overcomes his bad hands?? C'mon .. Isaac dropped his share last year too. It is purely a matter of conjecture to say Bruce this late in his career would have done better than Bennett were he to have remained a Ram. What many perceive as penny pinching may have had far less to do with money, and more to do with the Rams' perception of Bruce's ablilities at this point in his career. We don't agree on this, but I respect your right to your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    When you add to that the Rams drafted Avery, who if he pans out, makes Hall completely worthless on offense, it seems like a bad move all the way around. Remember, the Rams saved a whopping $1 million dollars when all was said and done. Wasn't worth the penny pinching to axe Bruce.
    Hall wasn't signed to be a receiver, he was signed to return kickoffs and punts primarily. The fact that he could contribute as a wr was gravy. My hope is that he will be our designated kr / punt returner (wish I could just type p/ret without it coming up as "Page Ranking") again this year and can concentrate solely on those duties. If Avery pans out as a wr wonderful! Let's allow Dante to fulfill the role he was originally envisioned to fill. When the Rams gave up the big bucks for Bennett, it was no secret that they saw him as Isaac's eventual successor. Whether or not he'll pan out as such is as yet unknown .. In the meantime it's not Dante's fault he is familiar with Al Saunder's offense and is viewed by Al as being able to contribute occasionally as a receiver ..

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Overcomes his bad hands?? C'mon .. Isaac dropped his share last year too. It is purely a matter of conjecture to say Bruce this late in his career would have done better than Bennett were he to have remained a Ram.
    I don't want to see either of them dropping passes but I would rather watch Bruce, as a Ram, doing it and Bennett as a 49 er working out his injuries/hands/lack of speed or whatever. Bruce isn't what he was but he still looked better than Bennett and I think Bruce will outperform Bennet in '08 as well. Both should be #2's so it will be a fairly even comparison.

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    Bruce isn't what he was but he still looked better than Bennett and I think Bruce will outperform Bennet in '08 as well. Both should be #2's so it will be a fairly even comparison.
    Conjecture duly noted sir ..

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    Re: Holt adjusting to not playing with Bruce

    Conjecture duly noted sir ..
    When basing one's ideas on facts and statistics, it isn't conjecture. When basing a prediction on past and recent performance it isn't conjecture either. I think you are trying to imply that you don't agree with my opinions and/or they are baseless but I haven't seen you offer anything to support your idea or contradict mine. Bruce outperformed Bennett in '07 and in '08 Bruce will be featured in an offense designed around the pass. Not to mention, he will be called upon to anchor the receiving corps until they become acclimated to the new scheme. How is any of that defective information. Saunders #2 receivers historically don't produce much. A reasonable assumption is that the years of data that illustrate these ideas would continue in '08 barring injury to either or both players. There is a difference between assumption, prediction and conjecture.

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