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  1. #16
    AlphaRam Guest

    Re: How can the niners....

    Since we are writing about being politically correct, I do not want to see the term "ghosts" typed here in the future. They will be called "Apparition-Americans".


  2. #17
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    Re: How can the niners....

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaRam View Post
    Since we are writing about being politically correct, I do not want to see the term "ghosts" typed here in the future. They will be called "Apparition-Americans".

    Hey, I resemble that remark!
    RnD

    GO RAMS!!

  3. #18
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    Re: How can the niners....

    whatever the rules, the whiners are getting a good coach in singletary. they seem to be heading more in the right direction than the rams. hope we get a good coach out of this. personally i don't particularly care for haslett.
    LA RAMMER

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  4. #19
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    Re: How can the niners....

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsSB99 View Post
    I am sick and tired of minority rights being pushed all the time. I don't believe in discriminating against people because of race, religion, or sex and yes it is reverse discrimination to say that you have to interview a minority. So lets say they keep interviewing black male candidates. Are they then discriminating against Asians because they never interview Asians. Are they discriminating against Latins because they donít interview them? This is the biggest farce ever. My company actually has to interview a minority candidate as well when they go through the hiring process. Even when they know the exact person they want to promote to the job based on performance. Often they will bring in someone to interview that fits the minority bill with no intention at all of hiring them because they already know whom they want. I don't see this little tap dance routine that people have to go through before hiring a non-minority. I know several minorities that even think its a bunch of BS. I know the postal service used to add points to minorities test. So if a minority and non-minority were taking the same test and scored the same the minority would get points added to their test because of their status this coming out with a higher test score. I can't say thatís still the case anymore but it used to be and not very long ago.

    I know several minorities that believe America is fair and don't want treated differently. They want to go their own way and earn what they get without help. Are some of these advancement agencies still needed such as NAACP. I only say that group because itís the only one that comes to mind but there are other minority groups like that. We don't have any such groups for non-minority. I am not to naive to think that there is not some racism out there but I truly believe if someone feels discriminated against they can find a lawyer that will take up their cause. I feel like sometimes as a non-minority that certain people would not pick me over someone else even if I were more qualified because of that personís personal preference. Some things that look racist are not always racist.

    When can we start living as just Americans? The first step IMO is for businesses to stop classifying people as minority and just start classifying everyone that lives in America as Americans.
    I could be wrong but I think the Rooney rule calls for at least one minority to be considered for the job regardless of what his minority may be. I say this because I think the last time around the Rams obliged the Rooney rule by interviewing Ron Riviera who was of Hispanic descent.

    I am by FAR not the most PC person you will ever meet, but to me, the Rooney rule is not a big deal. I don't really understand why anybody has such a big problem with it. All that is asks is for a minority candidate to be considered for the position. Nowhere does it state that 25% of all coaches must be minorities or whatever. If we find a white coach to be the man for the job, we hire the white coach. Worst case scenario, this makes us interview somebody for the job that maybe we wouldn't consider otherwise. Judging by our past track record, that ultimately may not be such a bad thing.

  5. #20
    Bar-bq's Avatar
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    Re: How can the niners....

    Quote Originally Posted by Keenum View Post
    Has discrimination really been a problem in the NFL, or in sports in general, as of recent? I know it was really bad years ago, but I think we have finally got over it, at least for the most part.
    Except in college football. There was a kerfuffle earlier this year about the ridiculously low proportion of minority head coaches and co-ordinators. Less than 10 percent, if my memory serves.

  6. #21
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    Re: How can the niners....

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsSB99 View Post
    I am sick and tired of minority rights being pushed all the time. I don't believe in discriminating against people because of race, religion, or sex and yes it is reverse discrimination to say that you have to interview a minority. So lets say they keep interviewing black male candidates. Are they then discriminating against Asians because they never interview Asians. Are they discriminating against Latins because they donít interview them? This is the biggest farce ever. My company actually has to interview a minority candidate as well when they go through the hiring process. Even when they know the exact person they want to promote to the job based on performance. Often they will bring in someone to interview that fits the minority bill with no intention at all of hiring them because they already know whom they want. I don't see this little tap dance routine that people have to go through before hiring a non-minority. I know several minorities that even think its a bunch of BS. I know the postal service used to add points to minorities test. So if a minority and non-minority were taking the same test and scored the same the minority would get points added to their test because of their status this coming out with a higher test score. I can't say thatís still the case anymore but it used to be and not very long ago.

    I know several minorities that believe America is fair and don't want treated differently. They want to go their own way and earn what they get without help. Are some of these advancement agencies still needed such as NAACP. I only say that group because itís the only one that comes to mind but there are other minority groups like that. We don't have any such groups for non-minority. I am not to naive to think that there is not some racism out there but I truly believe if someone feels discriminated against they can find a lawyer that will take up their cause. I feel like sometimes as a non-minority that certain people would not pick me over someone else even if I were more qualified because of that personís personal preference. Some things that look racist are not always racist.

    When can we start living as just Americans? The first step IMO is for businesses to stop classifying people as minority and just start classifying everyone that lives in America as Americans.
    Seriously, a couple years ago, one of my Best Friends (R.I.P.) interviewed for a job at one of the biggest chemical companies in the world. He had a great interview, even the local H.R. guy and one of the manufacturing supervisors called to tell them how much they enjoyed him coming and how they'd love to have him aboard and he should be expecting a call soon with an offer ...

    When he got the call a couple days later, he was very excited, only to be told that they could not hire him because they had to hire a minority, preferrably a woman ...

    So, really? The company has it's qualified candidate. They found THE person they wanted, THE person they feel can do the job, and they cannot hire them because of a quota?

    Odds are there are many women, many minorities, that could have probably done an equal or better job than my friend, it all depends on the time and situation. However, at this time, they found who they wanted and they couldn't hire him because of some stupid laws ...

    So they are left with 2 possibilities:

    1. Hire an inferior candidate and create and inferior product or service
    2. Spend excess money to go find a new candidate that meets the criteria
    Last edited by RamsInfiniti; -12-27-2008 at 11:50 AM.

  7. #22
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    Re: How can the niners....

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    The Rams' contingent deal with Haslett was found by the league to violate the Rooney Rule, which requires that minority candidates be interviewed for open HC jobs.

    Singletary is a minority, so I presume the league has no issue with the hiring of a minority candidate without interviewing additional minority candidates.
    Well said AVR

  8. #23
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    Re: How can the niners....

    Well i guess I did well creatng this thread no....lol.... gotta stir it up a bit ya know

  9. #24
    HornIt Guest

    Re: How can the niners....

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Whether it is necessary or not is open to debate. Certainly, the number of minority HCs does not suggest a problem if you compare it to the overall population of the U.S. On the other hand, if compared to the % of minority players, it could be characterized as a small number.
    I think from a statistical perspective, the comparison to the overall population is more meaningful than to the number of players. Coaching is a completely different job and discipline than playing is. And it very well may be that there aren't as many minority candidates in the coaching pool to choose from in the first place because more minorities pursue playing over coaching than non-minorities.

    The most meaningful number would be the ratio of minority coaches to non-minority coaches overall in the country and then compare it to the percentage that have NFL head coaching jobs. But one thing I've never seen in any discussion on this whether it be national media or otherwise is a study to find that number. I suspect that ratio would reflect that of the general population much more closely than it would that of the player population, but I don't have any proof because nobody has ever seemed to want to ask and answer that question in the places where it would actually matter.

    In any case, I'm happy for the Rooney Rule, especially this year, because it has saved the Rams from themselves......hopefully.

  10. #25
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    Re: How can the niners....

    Fact is this country has had unstable race, ethnic, and religious relationships form the its very founding. Both to our credit and shame we as a nation have made strives in improving those relationships but have a long way to go.

    Am sure most people here know their US history all too well to go over every problem and solution that has occured. Question is, what is the most fair and just system to address this issue in the NFL.

    As it stands, its a good system that grants some insurances for minority coachs. But we all regardless of our position are likely in aggreement that all that truely matters is success on the football field regardless of a coaches color. That in my mind is the final check and garentee of equality in the NFL. Personally, I would find it rather stupid to hire regardless of skin color a less qualified coach.

    HOWEVER, regardless of the injustices done in the pass, we are still paying for them. Worst still many injustices are being done even in the 21st Century. Its an imperfect world regardless what continent your on--but at least its an attempt at justice. Perhaps in another 200 years, someone will find this post and find it amusing

  11. #26
    HornIt Guest

    Re: How can the niners....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Dragoon View Post
    Fact is this country has had unstable race, ethnic, and religious relationships form the its very founding. Both to our credit and shame we as a nation have made strives in improving those relationships but have a long way to go.

    Am sure most people here know their US history all too well to go over every problem and solution that has occured. Question is, what is the most fair and just system to address this issue in the NFL.

    As it stands, its a good system that grants some insurances for minority coachs. But we all regardless of our position are likely in aggreement that all that truely matters is success on the football field regardless of a coaches color. That in my mind is the final check and garentee of equality in the NFL. Personally, I would find it rather stupid to hire regardless of skin color a less qualified coach.

    HOWEVER, regardless of the injustices done in the pass, we are still paying for them. Worst still many injustices are being done even in the 21st Century. Its an imperfect world regardless what continent your on--but at least its an attempt at justice. Perhaps in another 200 years, someone will find this post and find it amusing
    Fact is, no country has ever had a history of being as ethnically diverse and tolerant of different people, cultures and religions as this country since it's founding. Nobody ever even attempted that little experiment before the United States. So while there have been mistakes along the way and corrections, every country shares the blame but no other country deserves as much credit for righting the wrongs and eradicating the injustices.

    That's why it's important to know more than just US history, but to know history period to put things into the proper perspective.

    Yep, we've still got a ways to go to get to perfect, on all sides, but we're a lot closer to it as a nation than anybody else is. As well, it's important to remember that the Rooney Rule is not a quota system. It's not affirmative action. It's simply an internal company HR policy with respect to interviewing employees. Teams can hire whoever they want and interview whoever they want, so long as they interview at least one minority candidate in the process. Does it help? I don't know. Does it hurt? I don't see how.

  12. #27
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    Re: How can the niners....

    CNN - Obama successor named

    Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:36 PM EST
    CNN

    President-elect Barack Obama said Tuesday it is disappointing that Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich ignored warnings from Senate Democrats about appointing a successor to his Senate seat.

    "I agree with their decision, and it is extremely disappointing that Gov. Blagojevich has chosen to ignore it."

    Obama added that the best resolution would be for Blagojevich to resign office and "allow a lawful and appropriate process of succession to take place."

    On Tuesday, Blagojevich, a Democrat, named former Illinois Attorney General Roland Burris to serve the last two years of Obama's Senate term.

    Burris, 71, also a Democrat, served Illinois from 1979 to 1992, first as state comptroller and later as attorney general. Earlier in December, he said that despite the scandal associated with the seat, he wanted the job.

    He also appeared to support Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan's efforts to remove Blagojevich from office, calling his alleged actions "reprehensible."

    "Roland Burris is a good man and a fine public servant, but the Senate Democrats made it clear weeks ago that they cannot accept an appointment made by a governor who is accused of selling this very Senate seat," Obama said in a statement.

    Burris does not have to be formally approved by the Senate. But if there is a question about the appointment, the Senate could reject the appointment and immediately vacate the seat, or vote to seat the senator pending an investigation by the Rules Committee or another body, associate Senate Historian Don Ritchie said.

    Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Illinois, who appeared at the afternoon news conference, warned senators about blocking Burris from being seated.
    "There are no African-Americans in the U.S. Senate. And I don't think any U.S. senator who's sitting in the Senate right now wants to go on record to deny one African-American from being seated in the U.S. Senate," he said.
    "I would ask you to not hang or lynch the appointee as you try to castigate the appointer and separate the appointee from the appointer," Rush said."
    Rush said he will take that argument to the Congressional Black Caucus as well as U.S. senators -- including Dick Durbin, a Democrat and Illinois' senior senator.
    Burris downplayed the importance of race in his appointment.
    "I think that certainly is not a major issue," Burris said regarding race. "Why those persons will not seat me is a question that they're going to have to answer, because I have done no wrong."





    My comments: Heres another example where reverse discrimination needs to stop. The Illinois governor was found guilty of trying to sell Obamas seat and was warned about appointing someone. He appoints a person even against the Senate and Obamas urging not to. Now since it wound up being a black person (minority) some people are reversing course. The guy elected said the governors acts were "reprehensible". Now a senator is warning against people that don't want to validate this guy based on the color of his skin.

    He is saying:
    "There are no African-Americans in the U.S. Senate. And I don't think any U.S. senator who's sitting in the Senate right now wants to go on record to deny one African-American from being seated in the U.S. Senate,"

    He is also saying:
    Rush said he will take that argument to the Congressional Black Caucus

    Seriously people lets quit the double standard. The Senate warned long ago that they would not support this Governor if he tried to appoint someone to the seat. Now they find out its a minority they want to think twice. That is reverse discrimination. They are letting a guy that could go away for life appoint a guy to the Senate seat after saying they would not approve his appointment.


    I am not saying that he would not be a great candidate or that we should not see more minorities in the Senate but not under these circumstances.
    Last edited by RamsSB99; -12-31-2008 at 09:35 AM.

  13. #28
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    Re: How can the niners....

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsSB99 View Post
    [FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]

    When can we start living as just Americans? The first step IMO is for businesses to stop classifying people as minority and just start classifying everyone that lives in America as Americans.
    When all Americans consider themselves Americans first and decedents of other countries second, (i.e. when we quit entertaining the hyphenated citizenship moniker) that would be a good start.

    That being so stated, rules like the Rooney Rule were put into place to counter the obvious discrimination of the past. Some day we will be past all of that. One of my favorite quotes was i think from Lovie Smith when everyone was making a big deal about two black head coaches in the Super Bowl. He thought it was great, but he looked forward to the day when it wasn't even noticed. Me too.
    "The disappointment of losing is huge!"

    Jack Youngblood

  14. #29
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    Re: How can the niners....

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    When all Americans consider themselves Americans first and decedents of other countries second, (i.e. when we quit entertaining the hyphenated citizenship moniker) that would be a good start.
    I agree and can't wait for the day when our government and businesses stop making judgments based on the hyphen behind the type of American we are. As long as there is a hyphen or distinguishing of the type of American we are then racism will not die in America. There can't be racism without distinguishing one person from another.

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