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Thread: How do you spell Suck?

  1. #61
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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    And just for the record, if Bradford can only operate in a WCO, he better be returning 75% of that salary of his (80 million).
    Who said Bradford can only operate in a WCO. I'm saying he DID operate in the WCO. I'm saying he is NOT operating in the McD. These are simple facts. The speculation begins with "Why".

    The superficial answer is: Bradford sucks. It's a simple answer that requires no analysis or depth at all. So I can see why some would be so quick to claim it. It's easy. It flies in the face of the fact that he played quite well last year; and depends on some bout of football amnesia that must have struck Bradford. A weird ailment, that probably doesn't even exist, but it's enough for some.

    The more logical answer is: The roster pieces required to run the McD are either not on the field or as of yet up to speed. With the obvious exception of Lloyd, the receivers may lack both talent and time in system to make it work. The line, OTs specifically, have not been able to adjust to the longer blocking. I'm not sold that Smith ever will, but Saffold was looking much better before his injury.

    But HUb, are you telling me Bradford is blameless in this mess?

    No, I'm not. I think he has a better grip on this offense than his receivers, but it's quite easy to tell he's not entirely comfortable with it yet. He's holding the ball too long, and he's not seeing the whole field. But that's what happens when you throw a system rookie on to the field with practically no offseason.

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #62
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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    The answer: McDaniels brought in an offense that relies on spread isolated routes that move the ball vertically. That requires receivers that can gain separation downfield. Lacking that aspect, the O-line has to hold their blocks longer. Failing to do that, Bradford takes more hits. The result: A sophomore QB with no weapons in an ill-timed offense taking more hits; the makings of a disaster.
    So either the Rams organization vastly miscalculated on their personnel when they brought McDaniels in by thinking they could operate in his system, or the personnel has the ability to operate in McDaniels' system but has vastly underachieved when asked to do so.

    Or it's a little bit of both. Either way, I think some people are going to be losing their jobs because of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Fix 1: Keep McDaniels. Draft a new QB, draft new OTs, draft new WRs. That should only take the next 3 or 4 drafts, if done perfect. Dump Bradford and live in cap hell for the next few years.

    Fix 2: Dump McDaniels. Bring the WCO back.
    It concerns me that I don't see a "Fix 3: Keep McDaniels, keep the QB, draft more talent around the QB that fits the system."

    Do you not think the Rams can keep McDaniels and Bradford, or do you believe that Bradford is incapable of running this offense and the Rams would need to find a new QB were they to keep McDaniels?


    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    And a final point on the WCO, or as some have incorrectly dubbed the "dink and dunk like a little girl" offense.
    Maybe the WCO in general does not fit that description, but what the Rams ran last year certainly did IMO. Let's take a look at the QBs you mentioned...

    Ken Anderson: 7.3 ypa
    Joe Montana: 7.5 ypa
    Steve Young: 8.0 ypa
    John Elway: 7.1 ypa
    Brett Favre: 7.1 ypa
    Sam Bradford: 6.0 ypa

    My vision isn't what it used to be, but I think I see a dinker in there.

    Even going back to Donovan McNabb's time in Philly, which is the tree that the Rams' branch of the WCO broke off of, Mr. Campbell's Soup boasted 6.9 yards per attempt on average. The WCO that the Rams ran in 2010 - and let's be clear, there are so many variations and customizations of the "WCO" that it's not just one staple offense for anyone who runs it - certainly featured short range, high completion, check down throws. We don't need the numbers to tell us that; we all saw it.

    Plus, if we're being honest, the Rams' version really wasn't that successful in 2010. The Rams' 18.1 ppg ranked 26th in the NFL. They ranked fifth in the league in passing attempts, but only 21st in yards and 25th in TDs. The rushing numbers were among the bottom half of the league as well. Bradford may have set rookie records for completions and attempts due to how much the Rams asked him to throw, but his 76.5 QB rating wasn't particularly efficient when compared to his peers.

    So yes, while the WCO in general can be used effectively to produce successful results over the long term, I'm definitely not convinced that the 2010 Rams' variation can say the same.

  3. #63
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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    Maybe the WCO in general does not fit that description, but what the Rams ran last year certainly did IMO
    Of course it did. Shurmur ran a very conservative form of the already conservative WCO. I think we all agree on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    It concerns me that I don't see a "Fix 3: Keep McDaniels, keep the QB, draft more talent around the QB that fits the system."

    Do you not think the Rams can keep McDaniels and Bradford, or do you believe that Bradford is incapable of running this offense and the Rams would need to find a new QB were they to keep McDaniels?
    McDaniels inability (or unwillingness) to adapt is going to ruin Bradford. I hope I'm wrong, but IMO, under McDaniels, Bradford is on the fast track to getting David Carr-ed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    So either the Rams organization vastly miscalculated on their personnel when they brought McDaniels in by thinking they could operate in his system, or the personnel has the ability to operate in McDaniels' system but has vastly underachieved when asked to do so.

    Or it's a little bit of both. Either way, I think some people are going to be losing their jobs because of it.
    Yes, they miscalculated their personnel and/or thier ability to bring in the proper personnel. But they also miscalculated McDaniels adaptability. And yes, heads will roll.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    if we're being honest, the Rams' version really wasn't that successful in 2010.
    Compared to the 2011 abomination?! I'll take the 2010 not-so-successful offense over this mess any day.
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    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  4. #64
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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Of course it did. Shurmur ran a very conservative form of the already conservative WCO. I think we all agree on that.
    Well, I suspect when people bring up the dink and du1nk nature of the WCO, that's why - the version that came to St. Louis fit that description, regardless of how and why other teams' versions were successful. Just as I'm sure by year's end we'll have some fun negative names for McDaniels' system, even though other variations succeeded elsewhere as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    McDaniels inability (or unwillingness) to adapt is going to ruin Bradford. I hope I'm wrong, but IMO, under McDaniels, Bradford is on the fast track to getting David Carr-ed.
    Right, but surely that isn't going to happen by year's end, which is why I don't understand why another option after this season can't be keeping both of them while improving the talent around Sam. You'll have to improve the talent around whoever is behind center anyway, so if Sam is capable of running the offense, then why not keep him?


    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Compared to the 2011 abomination?! I'll take the 2010 not-so-successful offense over this mess any day.
    Yeah, I dunno. I don't think Shurmur's offense from last year really changes much in terms of this season's direction, aside from maybe winning the close game against Arizona.

    The more we compare the two, the more I feel like we're stuck in the classic South Park conundrum - choose between a turd sandwich and a giant douche.

    But on a serious note, we've seen two different offenses in two years and neither of which have been successful. It would appear that, if Spags is kept, regardless of which direction the Rams go offensively - McDaniels or no McDaniels - they'll still have a lot of personnel turnaround to perform on offense to get the players to make it work. Which isn't exactly a situation you want to find yourself in entering Year Four of a regime.
    Last edited by Nick; -11-22-2011 at 11:49 AM.

  5. #65
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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang View Post
    The ONLY thing I've noticed get measurably worse in the last two to three years ...
    .

    There I was, sitting in the Sands Macau wondering what I was going to do with my dead chips now that my gaming promotor had lost more than a finger this time and how I got involved with bate-ficha in the first place, when I heard a call come in from Hong Kong.

    Now typically, I can resist everything but temptation. And this again was the case. Temptation was going to get the better of me. I couldn't resist questioning how one quantifies the "only" thing getting measurably worse of late.

    The only way I've been able to account for this pronounced polarization in all things argumentative, is that the planet has shifted off its axis and polarities have been amplified. Time is no longer measured in seasons but in decades. It seems everything is worse. Opinions are more strident. Frustrations are more exaggerated.

    There is only one way to spell suck ... d-o-n't b-u-y a t-i-c-k-e-t. For me, I'd rather put my money into punto banco. The odds of success are better than convincing anyone that the current Rams bear a closer resemblance to the Bulger-beaten-down days of yore ... despite the dramatic admin changes .... Which leads one to wonder whether an exorcism is required to rid the organization of georgia-on-my-mind ??
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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    the more I feel like we're stuck in the classic South Park conundrum - choose between a turd sandwich and a giant douche
    Well, I do love South Park........touche to the douche.
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    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    I don't think Bradford is in danger of being the next David Carr unless he's just mentally not up to the challenge of the NFL. Maybe when you are an afterthought like a Warner, Brady or Bulger, getting hit a lot the first two years of your NFL career doesn't ruin you because you were never supposed to be the #1 guy running a powerful offense anyway.

    I know, know, both Warner and Bulger definitely felt the effects of the poundings they took, but it wasn't after 2 years and no one was too concerned about whether they were physically or mentally "tough" enough to handle it back then WHen you are 1st overall and signed a humongous contract, you need to be able to handle adversity and some beatings. maybe even new systems if required. I think Bradford can.

  8. #68
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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by adarian_too View Post
    .

    There I was, sitting in the Sands Macau wondering what I was going to do with my dead chips now that my gaming promotor had lost more than a finger this time and how I got involved with bate-ficha in the first place, when I heard a call come in from Hong Kong.

    Now typically, I can resist everything but temptation. And this again was the case. Temptation was going to get the better of me. I couldn't resist questioning how one quantifies the "only" thing getting measurably worse of late.

    The only way I've been able to account for this pronounced polarization in all things argumentative, is that the planet has shifted off its axis and polarities have been amplified. Time is no longer measured in seasons but in decades. It seems everything is worse. Opinions are more strident. Frustrations are more exaggerated.
    Choices, choices. For me there's nothing worse than an unsatisfied curiosity but I can see where temptation can lead and its far from unpleasant on occasion.

    The Venetian does a far better line in chinese paramilitary-style oversized, hideously bright uniforms but the Sands is rather closer to the heliport which makes medical attention for said promoter much easier to come by.

    'd-o-n't b-u-y a t-i-c-k-e-t' works for me and it seems its been working for the St Louis fan base. There'd be a time when I'd rail against such indifference but then there is a soporific effect to such soul-crushingly conistent ineptitude.

    But that would never do of course.

    Especially not here.

    I understand HUb's point about hyperbole but then I'd suggest that can be useful on a discussion board especially given the rather uniform nature of what I've seen on the boards for the last couple of years. Dez's recent interventions might well have gone hyperbolic but then I think if its not intentional (and I think it was), then its unavoidable. One issue with this is that its been such a remarkable departure from the recent tone of the boards that we've started to see that polarity.

    Dez doesn't post as often as once he did but then neither do a host of others who brought something a little different and its this sudden outburst of near-hyperbolic activity from our admin that seems to have shaken some on the boards more than the fact that we do, in any every given sense of the word, suck. Interesting, its almost as if Dez has taken on the persona of consitutional monarch to our subject in some people's eyes.

    Able to be seen from time to time when trooping the colour and riding side-saddle (I'm sure he doesn't on the Harley) but not heard from and certainly not about anything important, such as how sorry-arsed we are right now.

    There are people who do a much better job than me on these boards of presenting highly-technical, statistically-laden arguments in an effort to explain or to reflect on exactly why we're in such a sorry state right now. Personally, whilst I enjoy these contributions from Nick, MFranke, HUb and man others, I tend to see in themes which may well have led me, in a soporific, if not lazy, miss-step to say 'only' when I could well have said 'every'.

    But then I might have said rather too much without saying anything at all, much like I have now.
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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang View Post
    But then I might have said rather too much without saying anything at all, much like I have now.
    Oh, don't I know that feeling only all too well ...

    Personally, I prefer the protection of the Wo On Lok to the rent-a-cop, but see already I digress.

    You know, truth be told, I think part of what drew me back in to this "temporary" state of madness, was the fact that I too found Dez's recent posts curiously out of character --- even to the point I speculated whether someone had hijacked his persona.

    I think what is so oddly amusing is that the Rams have practically been suckers for the better part of a generation and to only now conclude these are fighting words, is well, rather like saying a bit too much without saying much of anything at all ...

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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    I think when a guy like Dez- a guy who seems to have the respect of many for his level headed and positive messages- makes statements like he did to start the thread, it's a measure of just how much disgust and frustration many long time fans have for this franchise. It's justified. The organization's inability to 'get it right" spanning several head coaches, front office people and dozens of player personnel is maddening- and can bring even the most sane amongst us to the brink of insanity. Couple all of that with an owner of whom we know little and from whom we've heard even less makes it all the more frustrating.

    WE WANT TO IDENTIFY WITH A WINNER!!

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    Re: How do you spell Suck?

    Adarian-too it is very nice to see you again. I hope you will continue to contribute regularly as you did in the past. I always enjoy your posts. Did the Revenuers ever catch up to you? Listening to you and fat pang is quite entertaining. Hope to see more of it.

    My thoughts on this whole thing is that we don't currently have all of the pieces of the puzzle in place to get beyond the current phenomenon, which is a "train wreck", also known as the Rams 2011 season. This season is already written off in my mind. It isn't happening this year. We all know that. No use in stressing about it anymore.

    It can happen next year, IF we make the right moves in the offseason. I think McDanials and Bradford can do quite well together if given the tools to succeed. First of all, they need a full offseason to install McD's system. I'd take Blackmon in the 1st. I'd then make the offensive line the focus through the draft and free agency to protect Bradford and give him time. Then, I'd get a solid conerback (or two). I think that would go a long way towards getting us back on the right track. It seems pretty simple to me if we can actually accomplish it.

    After that, if the opportunity arose, I would work on improving other areas of the team such as linebacker, DT and backup running back. But, those would be secondary to my list above.

    I think that would go a long way towards getting us back in contention for the foreseeable future and beyond. This year is a foregone conclusion. Success next year isn't as far out of our reach as it may seem. That is how I get through each agonizing game. I know we aren't that far away from turning this thing around. Just my thoughts.

    Go Rams!!!

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