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  1. #1
    RamFan_Til_I_Die's Avatar
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    How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    I thought I'd take a look at some of the all time great coaches and their records for their first year(s) of coaching or with a new team. Let's see how Linehan measures up.

    Jimmy Johnson
    Dallas Cowboys 1-15
    1990 Dallas Cowboys 7-9

    Our beloved Dick Vermeil
    1976 Philadelphia Eagles 4-10
    1977 Philadelphia Eagles 5-9
    1997 Los Angeles Rams 5-11
    1998 Los Angeles Rams 4-12
    We all know what came next.

    Lou Holtz
    1976 New York Jets 3-10

    Tony Dungy
    1996 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 6-10

    Bill Belichick
    1991 Cleveland Browns 6-10
    1992 Cleveland Browns 7-9
    1993 Cleveland Browns 7-9
    1994 Cleveland Browns 11-5
    1995 Cleveland Browns 5-11
    2000 New England Patriots 5-11
    One good year in his first 6 seasons.


    Bill Parcells
    1983 New York Giants 3-12
    1993 New England Patriots 5-11

    Norv Turner
    1994 Washington Redskins 3-13
    1995 Washington Redskins 6-10
    2004 Oakland Raiders 5-11

    Bill Walsh
    1979 San Francisco ***** 2-14
    1980 San Francisco ***** 6-10

    Mike Shanahan
    1988 Oakland Raiders 7-9
    1989 Oakland Raiders 1-3
    1995 Denver Broncos 8-8

    Mike Ditka
    1982 Chicago Bears 3-6
    1983 Chicago Bears 8-8


    The list is very short for coaches that started winning immediatley. Among those is Vince Lombardi, Bill Cowher, Mike Holmgren, and John Madden. The rest as you can see did very poorly their first year(s).

    All things considered Linehan's 8-8 last year was quite good for a new head coach. His two losses so far this year could arguably be chalked up to player errors and not coaching.

    Just thought I'd put some perspective on things for those that want Linehan's head on a platter.


  2. #2
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    So havig a poor record is indicative of future success? Wait, that can't be right.

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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    So havig a poor record is indicative of future success? Wait, that can't be right.
    Its more like wishful thinking, if anything.


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

  4. #4
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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    So havig a poor record is indicative of future success? Wait, that can't be right.
    It means if people would've jumped the gun and fired the guys listed above, some of the great NFL coaches never would have had a chance to succeed.

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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    Great post, RFTID! Considering all of the heat that Linehan has been getting lately, I think its a very valid and timely point. Some of the best coaches out their apparently struggled early on. I'm sure they had to endure their share of adversity at the hands of the fans and the media as well.

    Given time to get their identity impressed upon the team, many went on to be great coaches. I bet a few of them even had to make some adjustments over time to match the personnel that they inherited too. I think Linehan should be given the same opportunity. We'll bounce back.

  6. #6
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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    Good post. Hopefully Linehan can be like those great coaches you mentioned and bring us some trophies.

  7. #7
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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    ONE thing missing in this post...alot of those teams where during REBUILDING. Dallas 1*Under Jimmy Johnson era REBUILD and thanks to the H. Walker deal () speeded up that process.
    2* Bill Walsh Era REBUILD. Great talent prospecting and developement not to mention great leadership lead to that dynesty.
    3*Parcells Era in New England not so much a rebuild just putting the pieces together.
    4*Prior to the 85 Bears season who even heard of the Bears and Dikka. But Buddy Ryan and Dikka woke that team up and if it where not for that DOOMSDAY-D there would have been no SuperBlow Shuffle
    5*Shanahan in Oakland never really had a free hand having to work under owner's nonsense and still to this day its an issue:x Yet With Denver Shanahan REBUILD.
    6*Belichick in Cleveland-haha! Yet another prime example how your front office is more hurt then help. Still when he took over the Pats it was a REBUILD.
    7*With Vermil, who can argue that it wasn't a rebuilding effort in either St. Lousi/Phil. teams? The only team Vermil didn't have to rebuild was KC. Considering how many Rams went over to that team it was an easy transition.

    NOW its 2006-07 and the Linehan Era. He inherits a good offense with some special needs on the offensive line--not too bad. A defense in desperate need of serious need of over hall and still is a work in progress yet workable.
    So what where was the activity in 06-07 in the free-agency market? Seem to remember San Fransico did rather well.
    How many holes where filled during the draft for defense? Or acquistions for offensive lineman?
    What have the Rams picked up other then TEs, and who again is the backup QB. Might want to review that one considering what a beating Bulger is taking do impart to NOT Acquiring a solid core of O-lineman.

    Right now I might be a little too critical of the coaching staff with just 2 games played. The loss to San Fran was critical one! One that ought not to have occured for I don't even entertain the idea that they have a better team player for player because that is no question the Rams are better....so far the weak link is the COACHING STAFF

  8. #8
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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    So havig a poor record is indicative of future success?
    It's not, but it does not mean you can't. Only time will tell, the clock is running, he will have two years. This one and next year to show we are getting close to a return to the top.

    The West is wide open.

    He inherits a good offense with some special needs on the offensive line
    In two years the one all pro has been hurt. Thats a HUGH loss.

    So what where was the activity in 06-07 in the free-agency market? Seem to remember San Fransico did rather well.
    In two years how many players from Martz D are left on the roster?

    The D is ranked 10th right now! What more do you want.

    NOT Acquiring a solid core of O-lineman.
    It a bit much to plan for losing, really three starters on the O in two weeks.

    One note, the O line did not lose the first two games, more like the play makers, I have yet too see one O line fumble the ball.
    Last edited by Rambos; -09-20-2007 at 07:32 PM.

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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Dragoon View Post
    ONE thing missing in this post...alot of those teams where during REBUILDING. Dallas 1*Under Jimmy Johnson era REBUILD and thanks to the H. Walker deal () speeded up that process.
    2* Bill Walsh Era REBUILD. Great talent prospecting and developement not to mention great leadership lead to that dynesty.
    3*Parcells Era in New England not so much a rebuild just putting the pieces together.
    4*Prior to the 85 Bears season who even heard of the Bears and Dikka. But Buddy Ryan and Dikka woke that team up and if it where not for that DOOMSDAY-D there would have been no SuperBlow Shuffle
    5*Shanahan in Oakland never really had a free hand having to work under owner's nonsense and still to this day its an issue:x Yet With Denver Shanahan REBUILD.
    6*Belichick in Cleveland-haha! Yet another prime example how your front office is more hurt then help. Still when he took over the Pats it was a REBUILD.
    7*With Vermil, who can argue that it wasn't a rebuilding effort in either St. Lousi/Phil. teams? The only team Vermil didn't have to rebuild was KC. Considering how many Rams went over to that team it was an easy transition.

    NOW its 2006-07 and the Linehan Era. He inherits a good offense with some special needs on the offensive line--not too bad. A defense in desperate need of serious need of over hall and still is a work in progress yet workable.
    So what where was the activity in 06-07 in the free-agency market? Seem to remember San Fransico did rather well.
    How many holes where filled during the draft for defense? Or acquistions for offensive lineman?
    What have the Rams picked up other then TEs, and who again is the backup QB. Might want to review that one considering what a beating Bulger is taking do impart to NOT Acquiring a solid core of O-lineman.

    Right now I might be a little too critical of the coaching staff with just 2 games played. The loss to San Fran was critical one! One that ought not to have occured for I don't even entertain the idea that they have a better team player for player because that is no question the Rams are better....so far the weak link is the COACHING STAFF
    I hate to tell you but after the 2005 season this team WAS in REBUILD mode and we ain't quite there yet.The talent on this team is not as good as the GSOT years so you can't expect the GSOT.We could get there again but not if we fire coaches every other year.

  10. #10
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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    I disagree. The defense needed rebuilding, but that offense had won despite poor defense in the past. The main reasons we went 6-10 in 2005 were because we lost our head coach for half the season, our starting quarterback and his primary backup went down, both of our star receivers missed games, one of our starting corners went down in the preseason, and the other only lasted 8 games.

    To me, rebuilding mode is where the ***** have been the last few years or where the Browns are now. It's when you're starting guys just to get them experience, even though you know you won't win a lot of games because of it. Given the age and skill of our offensive players, we ought to be in win-now mode.

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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    Very interesting. Thanks RFTID, for taking the time to reseach and place the comparison chart.

    Based on that, I think Coach Linehan still has a very good chance to bring this team to winning records. ...And I believe 2007 will be his 1st one by at least one game.
    Last edited by RealRam; -09-20-2007 at 08:49 PM. Reason: Name

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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    The talent of offensive skill position players does not make up for a deficit of talent elsewhere on the team, it certainly doesn't make for a win-now mentality. And whilst a losing record in the first two seasons doesn't augur future success it obviously doesn't deny the possibility either. It provides what some have termed 'perspective' and is valuable on occasion, like now for example.

    There has also been mention made of the phenomenon of 'rebuilding' I'd like to know exactly how the Rams post-2005 could be said to be exempt from that term. It would seem to me that all of the conditions for 'rebuilding' could be met during that period.

    The existence of offensive skill position players has masked some of the inadequacies present on this team for some time and quite possibly, has prevented an objective view of the state of this team.

    Linehan, on the criteria mentioned above is certainly no worse over his first two seasons than many of the best coaches ever to have coached in this league. I prefer to think that, whilst it doesn't make any statement as to a future hall of fame coaching career ,it does speak well of franchises who have managed to avoid the win-now mentality and at least demands that you give him his third season.

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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    I disagree. The defense needed rebuilding, but that offense had won despite poor defense in the past.
    2005 NFL St. Louis Rams 6-10-0
    2004 NFL St. Louis Rams 8-8-0 Martz
    2003 NFL St. Louis Rams 12-4-0
    2002 NFL St. Louis Rams 7-9-0

    We where not winning.

    We had one good year out of four, I would say let the record speak for where we where at the time of MM era ended. This team was clearly on the down side.

    Our ST have been really bad for more then a few years. If MM was winning he would still be here. All those draft picks, Trung, 3 DT, ect. Letting good players go. Bly,Ernie,London ect. Duncan replaces London come on.

    Linehan signed two players during the season, Tino and Little, I have never seen MM try and pull that off.
    Last edited by Rambos; -09-20-2007 at 08:48 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    I should clarify that I do think Linehan needs to be given a chance. But I'd contend that a team that is among the best in the league on one side of the ball needs significantly less to get back into playoff contention than a team that doesn't. The Colts for example win even when their defense isn't playing well. The Ravens and Bears can get by with modest production from the offense because their defenses are so stout. I'd say we're one of those teams that should be good enough on side of the ball that we only have to be decent on the other. I say should because lately there's more to complain about on the offensive side of the ball than there is on the defensive side.

    Also, on the records: we had a good record in '03, still made the playoffs in '04, and Martz wasn't allowed to coach through most of '05.

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    Re: How Does Linehan Measure Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    2005 NFL St. Louis Rams 6-10-0
    2004 NFL St. Louis Rams 8-8-0 Martz
    2003 NFL St. Louis Rams 12-4-0
    2002 NFL St. Louis Rams 7-9-0

    We where not winning.

    We had one good year out of four, I would say let the record speak for where we where at the time of MM era ended. This team was clearly on the down side.

    Our ST have been really bad for more then a few years. If MM was winning he would still be here. All those draft picks, Trung, 3 DT, ect. Letting good players go. Bly,Ernie,London ect. Duncan replaces London come on.

    Linehan signed two players during the season, Tino and Little, I have never seen MM try and pull that off.

    There's no doubt Linehan took over a team with alot of questions/holes. He brought us from 6-10 to 8-8 and if not for a couple of games that he ( Rookie Headcoach Decisions) himself cost us we would have made the playoffs. Also a big factor in my opinion is that yes he took over a very good offensive team but Linehan needed to get the turnovers back in line. The old saying is that it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. That saying fits our RAMS. Bulger, Bruce and Holt to name of few played under the Mike Martz gambling style offense. I'm not saying Linehan is or will ever be a Bill Parcels, Bill Cowher, Bill Belichick or Vince Lombardi but you never know. He's only 2 regular season games into his 2nd season as a Headcoach. His gameplans have been sound for both games. We all know we should be 2-0 not 0-2.

    I saw part of Linehans' Monday press conference after having lost to the Whiners the day before. He was genuinely and visibly upset. He did the best he could to contain himself but you could see he was either ready to cry or blow up. What else can you ask of him. There's no doubt in my mind this guy eats and sleeps our ST.LOUIS RAMS.

    Unfortunately only time will tell us what type of Headcoach we have leading our team.

    :r:r:r
    Last edited by laram0; -09-26-2007 at 10:33 AM.

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