The Hypocrisy is Laughable
I am more than a little amused at the righteousness being displayed by several entities who are more than a little hypocritical regarding the Gregg Williams situation. And to me, they're all equally shameful:
1)The Players-
They'll rip Roger Goodell for "taking the fun out of the game" yet bellyache when they perceive there isn't enough being done to protect the players. Guys who proudly and openly engage in some incentive-laced program for extra cash will blow the whistle on the same system from which they benefitted. It's pathetic. Mike Freeman of CBS.Sports.com is correct when he says "Players who push for safety are hypocrites. On one hand they talk of their concern for concussions, yet on the other openly contrive to badly injure others". Right on the money.
2)The NFL
The largest and most powerful sports entity in America is only too happy to glorify the aggressive nature of football when it adds to their coffers and only seems to react when publicity involving something controversial shines on them in an unfavorable way. They market violence, they market aggression until there's a lawsuit or an investigation- then they become righteous. and "concerned". NFL Films, with the full endorsement and cooperation of the NFL, has made dozens of videos (Hardest hitters, big hits, crunch time) etc. which have proven immensely popular. We'd be foolish to think some of these hits- legal or not- didn't cause some type of short or long term damage to the players involved.
3) The Fans
Everyone loves a big hit- unless it happens to one of our guys. Everyone says it's OK to push the envelope- unless teams play fast and loose with the rules when they're playing our team. People revel in old school football- when "men were men", decry the sanitized version of what we watch today with the cream puff rules protecting the QB and questionable interference penalties, yet have this moral outrage against a guy who has done what 1000 other guys in the past have done and hasn't coached a down for our football team.
I think perspective must be gained here.
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
Very true and right on! I think it was ESPN that was running a commercial a few years ago showing a football player creaming someone in their office.
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
Great thread, NJ Ramsfan.
And let us not forget the pre-MNF "Jacked up" segment in which we all get to watch the weekly beatings and hits which are then glorified and joked about.
I will concur that what Williams did was wrong and he should (and will be) punished. But lets not start acting sanctimonious about this situation until all the facts are gathered.
In the meantime I support Gregg Williams as the DC of the St. Louis Rams.
WHAT SAY YE?
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NJ Ramsfan1
Everyone loves a big hit- unless it happens to one of our guys.
Agreed.
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Everyone says it's OK to push the envelope- unless teams play fast and loose with the rules when they're playing our team.
Incorrect. I, for one, do not feel that way at all.
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People revel in old school football- when "men were men", decry the sanitized version of what we watch today with the cream puff rules protecting the QB and questionable interference penalties, yet have this moral outrage against a guy who has done what 1000 other guys in the past have done and hasn't coached a down for our football team.
Too simplistic. While I don't like to see roughing called on clean hits, I applaud the NFL's efforts (imperfect as they are) to eliminate diving at knees, helmet-to-helmet hits and holding by DBs.
The "outrage" over the bounty system, from my standpoint, is that it crossed the line from rewarding "big hits" to rewarding the infliction of injuries.
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
laram0
Very true and right on! I think it was ESPN that was running a commercial a few years ago showing a football player creaming someone in their office.
Yup, Terry Tate, Office Linebacker.
Hilarious, used to love those commercials.
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
There is a very fine line to be tread from here forward. We all love the brutality of the game but there are just too many guys who have been left severely impaired, disabled and FORGOTTEN by the league. Something has to be done about the beating these guys are taking. This little 'drama' over the bounty thing could not have come at a worse time. Williams is an 'OK' choice as DC...but the associated baggage he now comes with (no matter how hypocritical) is something this franchise simply does NOT need, when in re-build mode.
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AvengerRam
The "outrage" over the bounty system, from my standpoint, is that it crossed the line from rewarding "big hits" to rewarding the infliction of injuries.
Exactly. Rewarding, and in essence encouraging a hit that leads to an injured player being taken off the field on a stretcher, a so called "cart-off", is way over the line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fargo Ram Fan
Williams is an 'OK' choice as DC...but the associated baggage he now comes with (no matter how hypocritical) is something this franchise simply does NOT need, when in re-build mode.
This is the gist of the issue for me as well. While a reward policy to purposely injure opposing players is disturbing, it's the collateral effects of an exploding nightmare that Williams is the center of that I just don't want to see the Rams have to deal with.
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
I hope you don't count me among those people Jersey1. Because I know I posted about getting rid of Gregg Williams, and also pointed out his "alleged" involvement in the 09 NFC Championship game, beatdown of Brett Farve. But don't think for a second, Im taking the moral high ground with Williams, because its not like that at all. My decisioning regarding Williams and the Rams, is more to do with future damage limitation, above anything else. It's in no way, a sleight against Williams coaching ability or character. I still feel Williams is one of the best in the business, and I will be disappointed to see him go. But I just feel he is the one going to be scapegoated for this, and his ties with Fisher are leaving me more than a little unsettled, with the future in mind.
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NJ Ramsfan1
I am more than a little amused at the righteousness being displayed by several entities who are more than a little hypocritical regarding the Gregg Williams situation. And to me, they're all equally shameful:
Everyone loves a big hit- unless it happens to one of our guys. Everyone says it's OK to push the envelope- unless teams play fast and loose with the rules when they're playing our team. People revel in old school football- when "men were men", decry the sanitized version of what we watch today with the cream puff rules protecting the QB and questionable interference penalties, yet have this moral outrage against a guy who has done what 1000 other guys in the past have done and hasn't coached a down for our football team.
I'm going to be honest here .. My fellow Clannies are welcome to chastise me - but nevertheless, it's the truth. There is a term called a "WOO hit." I first heard the word when an NFL player described the term during a television interview. The player stated when film was reviewed a few days after their last game, all the players loved to see these hits. The sound "WOO" was literally heard throughout the meeting room when a big hit was depicted on the film.
When I see one of our guys (or whoever is playing the whiners) deliver a WOO hit, I love it! I yell, whoop and holler, and utter other choice words as well. When a Ram player is the recipient of a "WOO" hit, I'm usually screaming for a flag. I am a shameless "homer" during an actual game.
Back in the day when Steve Young was driving both Ram players and fans alike crazy, I wanted to see him get creamed -and if he couldn't get up and run the next play, so much the better, good riddance! Intellectually I know this is a game, and therefore intrinsically wrong to wish injury on any player. That said, on game day, it is hard for me to be intellectually and politically correct. I only hate Ram opponents for 3 plus hours on game day. The rest of the time I wish them well. I love the big hits that are part of the game, except of course when it happens to a Ram. There you have it folks - the ugly, naked truth.
I am not in support of a bounty system (although I'll admit it would be appealing if Goodell could somehow make an exception on gameday for teams playing the whiners), as I realize intellectually that it is simply wrong. That's why there are rules in this violent game that are in place to keep things from getting completely out of hand. I agree with NJ RF1 entirely about the hypocrisy here, and cannot exonerate myself one iota ..
This stuff has been going on for many years, and Williams and the Saints will take it in the shorts because they got caught. It is Goodell's job to try and protect players as much as is possible under very difficult circumstances. He isn't perfect either, but I do believe he tries to do what is best for the game overall. (I do believe the Patsies and Bellyache got off too easy). Hopefully in the long run, whatever punishments are meted out will have a positive effect on this game we all love. To lose players and coaches for "peanut money" is a shame. Guys will continue to get hurt no matter how much legislating is implemented, but paying players a bit of extra money on the sly to hurt opposing players is stupid, and ultimately degrades the game.
I've read a lot of articles recently by various pundits, and I do think some of them are being hypocritical and overly self righteous.
At this point in time, I am still on the fence regarding what the Rams should do with Williams. If they choose to stand by Williams and Williams is believably contrite, then I've no problem with that. We are all flawed in various ways, yet we all have the ability to change for the better. If the Rams see fit to give Gregg another chance, I'm good with it - today anyway ..
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Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
NFL Films. I had already mentioned NFL Films a couple of days ago, their 'Greatist Hits' (there must be Vols. 1-1000), and other macho memories from those "mean" players of yesterday -- older times as well as more recent.
Helmet flying, snot - spit smashing, bloody face, bone crushing hits. But then we really don't like to see a player carted off the field. So it must be quite an organizational challenge to continue to clarify what is / what is not legal within the remaining physical contacts in American football. That's the evolution of the sport we see now, especially this new millenium with all its rights, insurance, and correctness protocols and advocacies.
I agree, there is definitely evidence of hypocrisy regarding this player protection plan ... as well as an allocation of fault for failing to meet the rules and standards for said protection, an issue that, yes, is still being ironed out as attested by the newer NFL penalties such horse collar, helmet to helmet / leading with crown of helmet, striking a defenseless player, and the most controversial for now, "roughing the QB."
Quote:
"Aggressive play is fine, but there is a difference between hitting someone to hurt them (cause pain), and hitting to injure a player (inflict physical damage)." -- AV
To reiterate...
"Yes, there is a difference there. But it must be an extremely fine line between those two concepts. Thus the validity of NJ's point in that 'it is still football', i.e., the very nature and essence of this violently aggressive game.
IMO, the real difference of all this Gregg Williams ugly ordeal is that there was a so called "$ystem" used as an incentive for N.O. players to seek and destroy, so to speak, key, selected opponent players. That's what the NFL is presumably trying to investigate and punish, and to keep it from happening again of course." -- Me
http://images.smh.com.au/2010/01/09/...tton-200x0.jpg
Some players will probably want to stay all gun-ho about their rough'n tough profession and will lean towards keeping it that way, come what may. Others, well, they'll slowly come to accept the transition to a more safe game (probably the majority sooner than later). But the point is well taken -- there is some hypocrisy going on right now from all angles. We used to reel in the savagery of pro football, players inclusive. Now its violence is being questioned. Safety first. Okay... [Don't get me wrong, I myself am for safety. My son suffered a bad concussion while playing LB in HS (defensive player of the year). Not a pretty experience. But as NJ said elsewhere, '...it's still football.']
As someone here in ClanRam put it, the NFL will eventually become flag football.
Can't wait to see how the Rams will fare from this bounty program saga. Coach Fisher inclusive.
BTW, good post Maui. // Finally, here's one of "those" videos, a typical NFL macho movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pN17DwChuQ
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NJ Ramsfan1
I am more than a little amused at the righteousness being displayed by several entities who are more than a little hypocritical regarding the Gregg Williams situation. And to me, they're all equally shameful:
1)The Players-
They'll rip Roger Goodell for "taking the fun out of the game" yet bellyache when they perceive there isn't enough being done to protect the players. Guys who proudly and openly engage in some incentive-laced program for extra cash will blow the whistle on the same system from which they benefitted. It's pathetic. Mike Freeman of CBS.Sports.com is correct when he says "Players who push for safety are hypocrites. On one hand they talk of their concern for concussions, yet on the other openly contrive to badly injure others". Right on the money.
2)The NFL
The largest and most powerful sports entity in America is only too happy to glorify the aggressive nature of football when it adds to their coffers and only seems to react when publicity involving something controversial shines on them in an unfavorable way. They market violence, they market aggression until there's a lawsuit or an investigation- then they become righteous. and "concerned". NFL Films, with the full endorsement and cooperation of the NFL, has made dozens of videos (Hardest hitters, big hits, crunch time) etc. which have proven immensely popular. We'd be foolish to think some of these hits- legal or not- didn't cause some type of short or long term damage to the players involved.
3) The Fans
Everyone loves a big hit- unless it happens to one of our guys. Everyone says it's OK to push the envelope- unless teams play fast and loose with the rules when they're playing our team. People revel in old school football- when "men were men", decry the sanitized version of what we watch today with the cream puff rules protecting the QB and questionable interference penalties, yet have this moral outrage against a guy who has done what 1000 other guys in the past have done and hasn't coached a down for our football team.
I think perspective must be gained here.
Well said sir!
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
Not all players complain when their hit is deemed a penalty. Almost every player out there is concerned with hurting other players but know they can't play to avoid it.
It was mentioned by D Farr yesterday on the radio that the biggest hit he's ever seen was Lawrence Taylor hitting Joe Theismann and breaking his leg. The first thing LT did was to call over the trainers. He didn't jump up and down and celebrate that he hurt the guy.
When they took chop blocking out of the game people complained that it was a bad idea. I'm not wishing for the the glory years of seeing great NFL linemen being carried off the field with knee injuries. I'm glad they took out low shots at QBs legs and stopped players from hitting QBs in the head. I'm glad they stopped hitting defenseless WRs. I'm glad they stopped the driving of QBs into the ground on a sack. People say it's the end of football but every time they install these new rules to protect players, the game gets more popular.
Re: The Hypocrisy is Laughable
Anyone heard what the union has to say about this? I mean afterall, it was putting more money in player's pockets, and that seems to be all they care about, considering their strong opposition to fines for illegal hits. I haven't seen a word from them over this, maybe I missed it.
