I am going out on a limb here....

[keith m. klink]

Wouldn't it be DDRRRRREEWWWWWWWW

[thoey]

Actually, the cussing is not needed. If anything it just detracts from your point showing that you are letting emotion get the most of you.

But, to your point. I think the issue people have with Bennett is multi-fold. He was paid a lot of money to produce and then did not. Now, part of that may have been due to his injury and another part due to the injuries of the O-Line and our QB's throwing from their back.

I also think that due to the amount of money paid to Bennett, some people think we could not afford to pay Bruce what he wanted to stay. Whether that is true or not, I can not say. Maybe we paid Bennett less and still did not offer any more to Bruce as they offered him what the FO thought he was worth. It may not have changed anything even if we never picked up Bennett.

I gave up trying to think like the FO. Hurt my head.

[HUbison]

I know some are frightened by numbers. And who wouldn't be?.......melodrama, hyperbole, and bathos are so much easier. But I will take the risk yet again.

In the pass first offenses of Martz & Linehan....Bruce --- 55 rec., 785 yards, 3 TDs
In Norm Chow's run first offense....Bennett --- 52 rec., 738 yards, 3.5 TDs

Salary to be a Ram (as reported) - Bruce, $4 Mil
Salary as a Ram - Bennett, $2.5 Mil (cap $3.75)

Bennett played the entire year hurt.....you can't hold that against a guy. If he doesn't give effort, he skips practices, he's a cancer.....hold it against him. But you can't hold injury against him. Nor can any of us turn back time, therefore all the "we never should have signed him" arguments are irrelevant. Play the cards you're dealt.

And kudos to bruce4life for having the guts to face reality.

[TekeRam]

Originally Posted by thoey

But, to your point. I think the issue people have with Bennett is multi-fold. He was paid a lot of money to produce and then did not. Now, part of that may have been due to his injury and another part due to the injuries of the O-Line and our QB's throwing from their back.

I also think that due to the amount of money paid to Bennett, some people think we could not afford to pay Bruce what he wanted to stay. Whether that is true or not, I can not say. Maybe we paid Bennett less and still did not offer any more to Bruce as they offered him what the FO thought he was worth. It may not have changed anything even if we never picked up Bennett.

First off, last year a lot of people were paid to produce and didn't. Not all of them were hurt. Not all of them were players. As for Bennett's case, just watch when a high profile receiver hurts his hammy in this upcoming year. The reporters will remind people that the injury usually lasts all year. That's what happened to Bennett. You can come back from the injury, but it hurts your explosiveness and speed all year long.

As for how much he's costing, his cap charge is almost $2M under what Bruce would have cost had we kept him. He's just slightly above what the Whiners signed him for. He's much younger and will be a player on this team for years to come. It's important that he start earning the money we have given him by becoming a starter on this team. Everyone got so angry that we paid him so much to be our third receiver. No we paid him to eventually take over for Bruce. Now everyone's mad that he'll actually earn the paycheck that he gets. Bruce meant a lot more to the fans than he did to the franchise. He has been a great player for many many years but now he's declined. If you want to win, sometime you need to make sacrifices, and Bruce ended up becoming one, by his choice. Should we have kept asking him to restructure? Maybe not. But the fact remains, he wasn't going to be performing up to the level of his cap charge. Give Bennett the chance to do that.

[ramsbruce]

Originally Posted by HUbison

I know some are frightened by numbers. And who wouldn't be?.......melodrama, hyperbole, and bathos are so much easier. But I will take the risk yet again.

In the pass first offenses of Martz & Linehan....Bruce --- 55 rec., 785 yards, 3 TDs
In Norm Chow's run first offense....Bennett --- 52 rec., 738 yards, 3.5 TDs

I will only address your stats because I have no issue with Bennett. I do however think the Rams paid a little too much for him, but that's not Bennett's fault. I agree, he was hurt so we don't know what we have. It's too early to judge him, especially with that offense we fielded last year.

Just to play devil's advocate HUb, Bruce had to share balls with Holt, Jackson, Curtis to an extent, and a tiny bit with Faulk in 05. Bennett on the other hand was the #1 guy on a team of nobodies at WR. So even though Norm "runs first," you would think that Bennett would have better numbers and yet they are comparable. Just throwing that out there and seeing what sticks.

[HUbison]

Originally Posted by rambruce

So even though Norm "runs first," you would think that Bennett would have better numbers and yet they are comparable.

First off, thanks for playing the game. This is what makes the offseason fun. Now, on with the discussion.....

Why would we have to assume Bennett's numbers would be better? Using 2006 (Bennett's last in Nashville) as a point of reference.....Chow passed the ball 49.7% of the time with a QB that only completed 50.6% of their passes. In that offense, Bennett hauled in 20.4% of the team's passes. He got his share, but there just weren't alot of passes to be shared.

On the other hand, Linehan put the ball up on 58.3% of plays with a QB that completed 62.7% of his passes. And in that pass happy offense, Bruce got 20.0% of completions.

My point is two fold. One, Bennett didn't have an offense geared to his production as Bruce did. And two, even with all those other weapons, Bruce had the same percentage as Bennett. The Titans actually shared the ball (on percentage basis) more than the Rams.

[txramsfan]

Originally Posted by HUbison

First off, thanks for playing the game. This is what makes the offseason fun. Now, on with the discussion.....

Why would we have to assume Bennett's numbers would be better? Using 2006 (Bennett's last in Nashville) as a point of reference.....Chow passed the ball 49.7% of the time with a QB that only completed 50.6% of their passes. In that offense, Bennett hauled in 20.4% of the team's passes. He got his share, but there just weren't alot of passes to be shared.

On the other hand, Linehan put the ball up on 58.3% of plays with a QB that completed 62.7% of his passes. And in that pass happy offense, Bruce got 20.0% of completions.

My point is two fold. One, Bennett didn't have an offense geared to his production as Bruce did. And two, even with all those other weapons, Bruce had the same percentage as Bennett. The Titans actually shared the ball (on percentage basis) more than the Rams.

OMG...I'm sorry buddy but man....how do you know this stuff or is Google your best friend?

[HUbison]

Originally Posted by txramsfan

OMG...I'm sorry buddy but man....how do you know this stuff or is Google your best friend?

Google (and a calculator) should be EVERY football fan's best friend.

[laram0]

Originally Posted by Yodude

Love the optimism....but the only way Bennett outperforms Bruce is if Bruce is retired.

Time will tell.

I won't be a bit surprised if Bennett has better numbers than Bruce in the upcoming season.

[rams4life88]

Originally Posted by HUbison

First off, thanks for playing the game. This is what makes the offseason fun. Now, on with the discussion.....

Why would we have to assume Bennett's numbers would be better? Using 2006 (Bennett's last in Nashville) as a point of reference.....Chow passed the ball 49.7% of the time with a QB that only completed 50.6% of their passes. In that offense, Bennett hauled in 20.4% of the team's passes. He got his share, but there just weren't alot of passes to be shared.

On the other hand, Linehan put the ball up on 58.3% of plays with a QB that completed 62.7% of his passes. And in that pass happy offense, Bruce got 20.0% of completions.

My point is two fold. One, Bennett didn't have an offense geared to his production as Bruce did. And two, even with all those other weapons, Bruce had the same percentage as Bennett. The Titans actually shared the ball (on percentage basis) more than the Rams.

I agree with you. Not only that but wouldn't it be harder to have better numbers if your are the main focal point of your passing attack? (Double Coverages etc.) I mean honestly, who did the Titan's have BACK then?

[ramsbruce]

Originally Posted by HUbison

First off, thanks for playing the game. This is what makes the offseason fun. Now, on with the discussion.....

Why would we have to assume Bennett's numbers would be better? Using 2006 (Bennett's last in Nashville) as a point of reference.....Chow passed the ball 49.7% of the time with a QB that only completed 50.6% of their passes. In that offense, Bennett hauled in 20.4% of the team's passes. He got his share, but there just weren't alot of passes to be shared.

On the other hand, Linehan put the ball up on 58.3% of plays with a QB that completed 62.7% of his passes. And in that pass happy offense, Bruce got 20.0% of completions.

My point is two fold. One, Bennett didn't have an offense geared to his production as Bruce did. And two, even with all those other weapons, Bruce had the same percentage as Bennett. The Titans actually shared the ball (on percentage basis) more than the Rams.

Good points. It's real tough to compare because the offenses are basically opposite.

Using 06 as a point of reference is tough because it was Young's rookie year and he was just a runner and not much of a passer. How about in 05 when McNair completed 61% of his passes and yet Bennett still only caught 58 balls and 4 TDs with no WRs around him. Both TE's caught 55 balls, only 3 less than Bennett. Troupe matched Bennett's 4 TD's and Kinney had 2 TD's of his own. Bennett only averaged 4.5 catches per game in 05. That's pretty low for a #1 WR even in a run first offense don't you think. So were they just spreading it around, or is Bennett just not that good and the Titans went with the better options?

If Bennett can come close to or better what Bruce did 2 years ago, great. If he doesn't though, it's really going to hit the fan.

[bruce4life]

HIT the fan is an understatement my friend...

[thoey]

Originally Posted by TekeRam

First off, last year a lot of people were paid to produce and didn't. Not all of them were hurt. Not all of them were players. As for Bennett's case, just watch when a high profile receiver hurts his hammy in this upcoming year. The reporters will remind people that the injury usually lasts all year. That's what happened to Bennett. You can come back from the injury, but it hurts your explosiveness and speed all year long.

As for how much he's costing, his cap charge is almost $2M under what Bruce would have cost had we kept him. He's just slightly above what the Whiners signed him for. He's much younger and will be a player on this team for years to come. It's important that he start earning the money we have given him by becoming a starter on this team. Everyone got so angry that we paid him so much to be our third receiver. No we paid him to eventually take over for Bruce. Now everyone's mad that he'll actually earn the paycheck that he gets. Bruce meant a lot more to the fans than he did to the franchise. He has been a great player for many many years but now he's declined. If you want to win, sometime you need to make sacrifices, and Bruce ended up becoming one, by his choice. Should we have kept asking him to restructure? Maybe not. But the fact remains, he wasn't going to be performing up to the level of his cap charge. Give Bennett the chance to do that.

I guess we will have to agree to *agree* since you basically said what I did with added detail. Must be the stats person in you.



Only thing you mentioned different than what I did was about Bennett's salary this year compared to Bruce's expected salary for this year. I did not break the contract down by year but instead looked at the whole enchilada. A lot of money to not produce. But, agree, a WR with a hammy problem will be ineffective for most of the year. Hopefully he heals well since he is still young.

[rams4life88]

Originally Posted by TekeRam

First off, last year a lot of people were paid to produce and didn't. Not all of them were hurt. Not all of them were players. As for Bennett's case, just watch when a high profile receiver hurts his hammy in this upcoming year. The reporters will remind people that the injury usually lasts all year. That's what happened to Bennett. You can come back from the injury, but it hurts your explosiveness and speed all year long.

As for how much he's costing, his cap charge is almost $2M under what Bruce would have cost had we kept him. He's just slightly above what the Whiners signed him for. He's much younger and will be a player on this team for years to come. It's important that he start earning the money we have given him by becoming a starter on this team. Everyone got so angry that we paid him so much to be our third receiver. No we paid him to eventually take over for Bruce. Now everyone's mad that he'll actually earn the paycheck that he gets. Bruce meant a lot more to the fans than he did to the franchise. He has been a great player for many many years but now he's declined. If you want to win, sometime you need to make sacrifices, and Bruce ended up becoming one, by his choice. Should we have kept asking him to restructure? Maybe not. But the fact remains, he wasn't going to be performing up to the level of his cap charge. Give Bennett the chance to do that.

Totally agree with you. That's been my stance for awhile now...ahem *ramsbruce*...

[TekeRam]

Thank you Thoey and 88. Hub, I tried repping you for the calculator statement, but I gotta spread the love. Lord knows it's my friend every day as an engineer... and Rams fan.