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  1. #1
    elAcky Guest

    I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    Heard people say this a lot… I really don’t buy this on the defensive side of the ball (though I agree there is a definite lack of talent on OL)… almost every player (maybe exception being Coady and D Lewis ) has at some point shown a lot of promise.. feels like yesterday we were all praising Polley and had Arch penciled in as a future pro bowler… why then have they all suddenly forgotten how to tackle or make a play ? Doesn’t sound like a talent issue to me…

    My theory is that it is purely a question of motivation…. Martz has lost his ability to motivate this lot… I think a lot has to do with the way he has critisied his players openly (and maybe been a bit too trigger happy in demoting some players) and indeed been praised himself eventhough he has prepared his team poorly… I have a sneaking suspicion that this team is ready to break out of its slumber - but only once Martz leaves or puts his hand up and admits guilt.


  2. #2
    RamsFanSam's Avatar
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    I don't believe in the "no talent" thing either. These guys we call the Rams have played good enough to get to the pros, and some have played in the NFL for years. At the risk of fanning the flames (and people, let's not take this the wrong way, this thread is NOT on the subject of KW), saying the Rams have no talent is like saying that KW has no talent.
    Bullcrap.
    These guys are good enough to get out there and make a statement. Maybe some of the rookies are still not to the point of making a name for themselves, but look at the names of those that have: Bulger, Arch, Pace, Holt, Bruce, Pisa, Wilkins....I could name over half the team here. And I dare ANYONE to say these guys have no talent. Each one of them is at or above average for the position they play.
    So where is the problem at this year? Well, it might be coaching, it might be a problem meshing into a team, it might be a massive case of itching powder in the player's jock straps. But lack of talent....bullcrap.

  3. #3
    RamTime Guest

    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    My theory is that it is purely a question of motivation…. Martz has lost his ability to motivate this lot
    I feel just the opposite. I think Martz is just now realizing the importance of motivation because his talent pool has dried up. The Rams have not been overly motivated since the 1970's with the possible exception of the Kevin Green days. They have used their talent to get by especially over the past 5 years. As far as defense, they can play but they seem to be a little to frail to continuously hit hard. The Rams went after speed with lovie as DC. Remember last year? The Rams defense got run over just as bad as this year however their hustle to the ball created turnovers. Credit Lovie, Fault that poor excuse of a DC Marmie. Fault Martz for hiring his buddy. Martz's choice in DC's may prove to be a head coach killer. Martz needs to call Marmie in his office and put the fear of hell in him. That is, he needs to hold Marmies feet to the fire and Marmie needs to let the shat flow down hill. NOW! Not 1 game from now, RIGHT NOW! You would think that the defense could take at least one game and dominate it when our offense is not lighting it up and our special teams are giving up big returns. Nope they just continue to be worthless no matter what the situation is. Call me crazy but I just have a feeling that there are some serious ultimatums coming out of Martz's mouth and into the ears of anyone in shouting distance. Martz tried to treat this team and his coaches with respect and has left it up to them to be ready over the years he has been in charge. They have taken his kindness for granted one two many times and your going to see the results of his ass chewing’s Monday Night.

    "I just want to get this thing into the playoffs." RamTime.

  4. #4
    elAcky Guest

    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    Martz tried to treat this team and his coaches with respect and has left it up to them to be ready over the years he has been in charge. They have taken his kindness for granted one two many times and your going to see the results of his ass chewing’s Monday Night
    Maybe.. but if he thinks he can suddenly turn into a hard arse and get the team motivated then he better start talking to the fins

  5. #5
    rampower's Avatar
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    if winning a suprbowl, earning a top contract, chance of going to the pro-bowl cannot motivate arch, what can??

  6. #6
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    The problem is not talent, the problem is coaching and lack of motivation. The Rams are fielding the same defense as last year, minus Grant. Although Grant was a good player you can’t tell me he made that much difference.

    Last year Lovie was an excellent manager/coach who took the strength, and weaknesses of the talent and resources he had, and matched them to the opportunities, and threats of opposing teams. He devised a strategy that leveraged the small size and quick speed of the D to the best ability, leveraging turnovers. His strategy of leveraging turnovers was also complimentary to the offense, minimizing the plus minus turnover ratio of the gambling offense.

    Lovie also motivated the “D”, does anyone remember the pushups after anyone on the D missed a potential interception? Does anyone remember the “loaf” awards? Does anyone remember the requirement to have 11 hats on the ball? All of these are symptoms of good motivation.

    Unfortunately Marmie cannot motivate the D. Does this D have any character at all other than missed tackles? We don’t need some old retread from a failed franchise as a D coordinator. We need a young stud from a successful organization! Larry, here’s your bus ticket…

  7. #7
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    I believe the problem is not lack of talent but lack mixing the talent.

    I don't believe the players that are on the field together can play together as a team and they don't compliment their skills.

  8. #8
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but I think the single best fix we can do is lose Marmie in the offseason. His hiring was the single biggest mistake since letting London walk.

    A Marmie-led defense has never, that is to say NEVER, finished higher than 22nd in scoring D and 24th in yardage D. In scoring D, his teams have finished 29th or worse in 3 of the last 4 seasons. We are hovering there now in 27th place. I guess that actually makes this a banner year for Marmie. His D is placing better than 29th. He still has a few spots to climb before reaching his career best of 22nd place, but everybody needs a goal.

    If the Rams finish the season on par with the first 10 games, they will have the lowest yardage defense ranking since 1982. During that same span, the scoring defense has been eclipsed by only the 2000 team and 1995 team.

    Not bad for your first year Larry. The D has gone to depths they haven't seen in over 20 years....but again, I'm not sure why we expected different.

    The talent is there. These players are not nearly as bad as they have collectively shown. If it were 1 or 2 players whose performance had dropped I could point to those players, but when an entire unit has depreciated to the point they have this year, it goes beyond the players. Larry, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  9. #9
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    Quote Originally Posted by RamWraith
    I believe the problem is not lack of talent but lack mixing the talent.

    I don't believe the players that are on the field together can play together as a team and they don't compliment their skills.

    I agree, talent/potential, yes, all players that have entered the nfl have talent, but these guys aren't playing well together.

  10. #10
    Yodude's Avatar
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    I also don't buy this no talent argument. I think that's a cop-out and a weak rationalization for how the team is playing.

    While i agree that there is some talent missing at some positions (o-line), I think we have more talent than our play indicates.

    I'd be alot more receptive to the "not enough talent" if we were at least playing hard and with discipline. But the silly amount of penalties and mistakes we seem to make every other week tells me that this is more of a discipline and preparation issue. If we were playing hard and limiting mistakes and just not getting the job done than I'd agree that maybe there's a lack of talent. As it is I can't buy that argument.

    RamWraith makes a very good point.....

    I believe the problem is not lack of talent but lack mixing the talent.
    And that is strictly on the coaching staff.


    The problem is not talent, the problem is coaching and lack of motivation. The Rams are fielding the same defense as last year, minus Grant. Although Grant was a good player you can’t tell me he made that much difference.

    Last year Lovie was an excellent manager/coach who took the strength, and weaknesses of the talent and resources he had, and matched them to the opportunities, and threats of opposing teams. He devised a strategy that leveraged the small size and quick speed of the D to the best ability, leveraging turnovers. His strategy of leveraging turnovers was also complimentary to the offense, minimizing the plus minus turnover ratio of the gambling offense.

    Lovie also motivated the “D”, does anyone remember the pushups after anyone on the D missed a potential interception? Does anyone remember the “loaf” awards? Does anyone remember the requirement to have 11 hats on the ball? All of these are symptoms of good motivation.

    Unfortunately Marmie cannot motivate the D. Does this D have any character at all other than missed tackles? We don’t need some old retread from a failed franchise as a D coordinator. We need a young stud from a successful organization! Larry, here’s your bus ticket…
    Couldn't have been said better by anyone.
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  11. #11
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    The talent is there. These players are not nearly as bad as they have collectively shown. If it were 1 or 2 players whose performance had dropped I could point to those players, but when an entire unit has depreciated to the point they have this year, it goes beyond the players. Larry, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. --HUbison
    You're right -- of course we have talent! I support MM but I also see his mistakes. Marmie is a mistake, buddy and all. Fact is, it's too late to adjust at this stage of the season.

    I hope we can seriously, truly make the best out of it and pull a rare ending to this year. It's happened before with equally talented teams.

  12. #12
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    I also never accepted the no-talent scenario, it just doesn't make sense. This defense has shown it can be effective against good competition. Injuries have been a problem, but every team in the NFL has to deal with injuries, it's a given. Mistakes, penalties, mental lapses and not being prepared are the problems. The players have to make plays on the field, but the coaching staff has to have them ready, motivated and disciplined. Teams that are ready to win, win.

  13. #13
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    I think it's part coaching, but I think we vastly overrated the skills of this defense under Lovie Smith last year. We would have fielded a very similar defense last season had the Rams not been able to be around the ball as much as they were. The run defense last season during the final stretch was miserable in some instances. The defense has always had tackling problems, this isn't new. I think some people see this year's defense and think last year's was somehow vastly superior, yet I would say that many of the same problems existed but were masked by the defense's ability to create turnovers.
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  14. #14
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    I think some people see this year's defense and think last year's was somehow vastly superior,
    I don't think they were vastly superior in talent, but they sure as heck were in performance, as an overall unit. Yes they had trouble tackling sometimes, but they were always around the ball, and like you said, they created turnovers. It just seems at times that they are not playing as hard as they were last year.
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  15. #15
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    Re: I don’t buy this "no talent" thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    I don't think they were vastly superior in talent, but they sure as heck were in performance, as an overall unit. Yes they had trouble tackling sometimes, but they were always around the ball, and like you said, they created turnovers. It just seems at times that they are not playing as hard as they were last year.
    Interesting to note: the Rams defense is allowing fewer average running yards per game over ten games this season than their last ten games of 2003. Missed tackles have been a problem for years. This defense crumbling and being run over is nothing new. The only difference is their ability to create turnovers. My question is whose fault that is. We've seen a number of guys almost get turnovers only to not come through.
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