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  1. #16
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    The only difference is their ability to create turnovers. My question is whose fault that is.
    And what a key question it is, Nick. Here's some stats from this season's D and the past two:

    2004 - 355 ypg, 218 pass ypg, 137 rush ypg, 25.4 points pg, 1.00 TO pg
    2003 - 316 ypg, 192 pypg, 124 rypg, 20.5 ppg, 2.88 TO pg
    2002 - 314 ypg, 201 pypg, 114 rypg, 23.1 ppg, 1.63 TO pg

    As far as giving up yardage, it's easy to see that this is the worst of the past 3 seasons. But I don't mind giving up yardage if we can at least keep other teams off the scoreboard...well, we can't this year giving up nearly a TD per game more than last year. But when our defense creates TOs, we give up fewer points. But, again, is it the defense creating the TO or did the QB or RB for the other team just get careless? And if the D creates TO, is it because of individual athletic ability or coaching schemes that put players in the right place at the right time? I think it's both, but when you have the same players on the field from one season to next, it makes me wonder if the coaching side of the equation is the one that has taken the step back.

    One final note, Marmie's last two defenses have managed 1.43 and 1.56 TOs per game, which places his defenses in the lowest quarter of each of those two seasons.

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #17
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    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Ok....name me one playmaker outside of Little on the defense? Just one. One playmaker. I dare you.

    Now, show me where Marshall is the same back as he was in 1999-2001. Show me where he has taken over a game. Show me this year where he has made a LB miss.

    Now, show me our TE. Display to me where the TE has made more than one huge play in more than one game.

    Outside of Pace, name me one O Lineman that you have seen this year that makes you comfy every game.

    You can't. That's what I'm talking about when it comes to talent level.

    Yes, Bruce, Holt and Bulger are playing well. Marshall is playing adequate but all those hits and injuries have slowed him down a little. Little really hasn't played up to his potential. Now, name me one person in the back 7 of the defense that has made more than one huge play. Just one.

    Don't rack your brains. You can't.

  3. #18
    elAcky Guest

    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Didn't archuleta get a sack, fumble recover and touchdown in one play !!!

    Didn't Aeneas force a crucial fumble out of Alexander

    Timmerman has been pretty solid even McCullom

    Agree TE - always ignored but a good receiving TE would do wonders for Bulgers game imo

    Agree Faulk

    The talent is there.. its just not there consistently

  4. #19
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    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Yes Arch and Aeneas had big plays, but in one game only.

    Talent rises up every game. Not just one play for one game.

    Arch is overrated as far as I'm concerned. The rap on him coming out of college was that he wasn't even adequate in pass coverage and he still isn't. Aeneas was playing pro football during the Lincoln Administration. He had talent but he's getting up there in years.

  5. #20
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    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    Aeneas was playing pro football during the Lincoln Administration.
    And I thought I was a marked man by the AARP. But just for the record. It is a question of "no talent". But the lack of talent is in the FO and coaching staff.

  6. #21
    RealRam's Avatar
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    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    For the sake of participating in this dilemma, I will. :tough: Granted, the fact that we're discussing this makes our so called team "talent" questionable.

    I don't think one can expect to have "loads of talent" in any team, as in rejoicing to the tune of several superstars at each section. Once in a great while, it will happen BUT that should n-o-t be the requirement to get to championships. Balance the talent available.

    A balance in talent, the usage of exceptional assets, i.e., talent ... is key.

    To deny that Marshall Faulk is not the same playmaker of a few years ago would be unrealistic. Fine. Does that take away his true TALENT? No, of course not.

    I believe No. 28 can still make defenders miss and this season he has and will continue. An old ram may not be as agile or impressive as a young and flashy one but sure remains dangerous! He played well, and yes, he "took over" in the Seattle win at home.

    Brandon Manumaleuna, TE. Good talent. Consistent in terms of good talent. I'm not talking about just enough talent to play in the NFL, but to play above average.

    Compare our talent with that of, say, the KC Chiefs: Green, Gonzalez, Holmes, their OL, etc. Yes, we do have good talent.

    Orlando Pace, Andy McCollum, Adam Timmerman. I can breathe normally knowing they are there as part of the OL every game. I cannot demand a ProBowler at each position.

    "Bruce, Holt and Bulger are playing well". ABSOLUTELY! "Marshall is playing adequate but all those hits and injuries have slowed him down a little." Again, even a 'slow' Marshall is more talented than a 'fast' rookie without MF's talent.

    Aeneas Williams, he is a DB with a mountain of a talent. Has been injured, but, injured, he made a GAME SAVING PLAY when he hustled and forced the fumble on the Seahawk's Alexander -- that play was the result of his a) experience, b) heart, and c) TALENT.

    No need to rack my brains to conclude the above. Sure, we need more plays now, more hustle, more torque, not necessarily more talent. We simply need to gather up our modest talent and WIN.

  7. #22
    lakerams Guest

    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Quote Originally Posted by adarian_too
    It is a question of "no talent". But the lack of talent is in the FO and coaching staff.
    I agree Adrian, 100%

    MM and the whole FO has no idea how to scout talent ( except for Jackson this year which was a no brainer ).

    for me, it goes back to the 2001 draft when we had (3) 1st round draft picks.

    they chose:

    D. Lewis- 51 tackles & 7.5 sacks
    A. Archuleta- 208 tackles, 10.5 sacks, & 2 int's
    R. Pickett- 105 tackles & 3 sacks

    here are the guys we could have drafted:

    M. Stroud- 132 tackles & 15 sacks
    N. Clements- 188 tackles, 15 sacks & 14 int's
    K. Jenkins- 110 tackles & 15 sacks
    K. Lucas- 205 tackles & 9 int's
    K. Bell- 193 tackles & 18 sacks

    Stroud went right after the Rams drafted Lewis.
    Clements went right after the Rams drafted Archuleta.
    Lucas & Bell went after Pickett.
    Jenkins went after Polley.

    if MM and the rest of the FO knew how to scout talent, the Rams should have ended up with:

    StL- 12th pick-1st round- Marcus Stroud- DT
    StL- 20th pick-1st round- Nate Clements- CB
    StL- 29th pick-1st round- Kendrell Bell- ILB
    StL- 42nd pick-2nd round- Kris Jenkins- DT

    now I know hind sight is 20/20 and the draft is sometimes a crap shoot. but if you have personnel who know how to do your homework, mistakes like this are not made in this magnitude.

    you want to know why NE is so good? look at their draft and the way the go about FA's. they do not miss too many picks.

    it goes back to the guys running the show, like it or not.

    as an additional note, the 2002 1st round pick was not any better.

    StL- 31st pick-1st round- Robert Thomas- OLB
    Career stats- 116 tackles & 2 sacks

    going 143rd pick-5th round- Scott Fujita- OLB
    Career stats- 190 tackles, 9 sacks & 1 int.

    do you see a pattern here?

    2003 draft

    StL- 12th pick-1st round- Jimmy Kennedy- DT
    if they would have drafted right in 2001, they wouldn't have needed a DT. therefore, they could have traded with Seattle to get Trufant or any other position.

    enough said!!

  8. #23
    RamTime Guest

    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Elacky mercifully did not go back to the 2000 draft when we drafted Trung Canidate. Thanks Elacky

    So it should be clear that our talent has suffered as we have been so inept in the draft. Now that we are at parity with the rest of the league the lack of motivation is showing. The new talent we have does not stack up to what had been obscuring the lack of motivation. I still think that Martz sees this and is addressing it.

  9. #24
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Quote Originally Posted by lakerams
    MM and the whole FO has no idea how to scout talent ( except for Jackson this year which was a no brainer ).
    Yes, so much of a no brainer that Jackson fell into the mid twenties of the first round, passed up by teams like the Dallas Cowboys, in desparate need of a running back, with heralded coach Bill Parcells at their reigns.

    Please give credit where credit is due. I think the front office can be criticized for a lot of their moves over the past couple of years, but the Rams executed a move that has worked out well thus far and looks to have locked up our future for years to come.

    You can't criticize the front office for all their mistakes, but shrug off the good they've done as being common sense moves and not give them credit for them. That's unfair.

    I also don't know how fair it is to criticize the front office for passing on guys like Nate Clements or Ken Lucas and instead going for Pickett or Archuleta. If the Rams saw cornerback as a need position, perhaps they would have gone after one earlier.

    You'd have more of a case if the Rams drafted a corner who didn't work out over someone like Lucas or Clements. But the Rams saw a need at defensive tackle and went with it over other positions. Of course they're going to miss out on some star players when drafting for need.

    Hindsight is 20/20. People could do this with every team in the league. I doubt back in 2002 anyone was screaming that the Rams didn't draft Fujiti, a fifth rounder, because they thought he'd prove to be one of the league's better outside linebackers. But now that we know what he's become, it's the Rams fault for not knowing it back then. Doesn't sound all that right to me.
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  10. #25
    RamTime Guest

    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    I think the lions share of the decline in talent has een with other teams signing our free agents. Nick makes some good points here however our drafting has had its serious flaws the biggest being Trung Canidate. There just is no excuse for that one. Regardless I still believe that free agency has done the most to hurt our talent level.

  11. #26
    lakerams Guest

    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Nick-

    I'm not saying that picking up Jackson wasn't a great move, it was. what I'm saying is that it was a no-brainer.

    also, I don't think the Cowboys are crying over not drafting Jackson. they got extra draft picks and unless the turkey really got to you and you fell asleep before the games, the Cowboys have a hell of a future RB in Julius Jones ( 150 yards & 2 TD's ) who they drafted in the 2nd round. now that is brilliant drafting. an extra 2nd round pick ( which they used to draft Jones ) a 5th round pick and a 1st rounder this coming year. now that is brilliant.

    I have not seen that from the Rams in a long time.

    and if moving up 2 spots to get Jackson this year ( when a RB wasn't a pressing need ), then why not move up 1 spot the year before and get Trufant ( which was a pressing need ). please explain!

  12. #27
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    Quote Originally Posted by lakerams
    and if moving up 2 spots to get Jackson this year ( when a RB wasn't a pressing need ), then why not move up 1 spot the year before and get Trufant ( which was a pressing need ). please explain!
    It would have cost more to move from 12 to 11 than it did to move from 26 to 24. After a poor 2002 season, the Rams probably wanted to keep as many picks as possible.
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  13. #28
    lakerams Guest

    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    well, Kennedy sure hasn't improved the team any, so it would've been worth it to get a CB like Trufant.

    plus, like I said, if they would've drafted right in 2001, the team would not have been bad ( or as bad ) and could have afforded giving up their 1st & 3rd to get Trufant.

    it all gets back to the 2001 draft and the poor job they did at drafting talent ( in their case, the lack thereof ).

  14. #29
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    Re: I donít buy this "no talent" thing

    I don't buy the no talent thing either. How did they reach this level in the first place?

    Bulger's 400 yards passing tells me there's not much to worry about aside injuries on the offensive side of the ball, so that leaves coaching. Martz has to use his head when making offensive plays. He should have his plan and stick to it. The front office should junk the whole defensive coaching staff and get people who know what they're doing. Maybe the defensive players have this sub-concious thing where they know Marmie came from Arizona, ergo it can't be a good system. Bottom line is, they're not getting the job done and there has to be a change. BIG TIME.

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