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  1. #1
    general counsel's Avatar
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    I like steven jackson but...

    This is something of a repeat of my post from last week so i will keep it short. Jackson is not living up to my expectations. Too tenative getting through the hole and to the line of scrimmage. Fumbles. Mental errors, questionable hands. Shows great skills at times, has a great future, especially when he gets a big hole and gets into the secondary in space so that he can physically dominate. Good player now, but not ready to really take over in my opinion when you have faulk on the bench.

    The challenge of course is jackson needs the snaps to get the experience and the rhythm, but meanwhile, as he is learning, a better player is sitting on the bench.

    I cant get the picture of the swing pass hitting jackson in the facemask out of my mind. He has to catch that ball. The fumble really really killed us. We were very much in the game and martin was moving the team at the point of the fumble. After the fumble, the wheels really came off. He just CANT caugh it up there.

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  2. #2
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    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    How about the way he came out running like the beast he is, the run for a TD. Everyone is going to lose a fumble now an again. The INT by Marc hurt more then his, the two INT by Martin hurt more then his. jackson will be fine, he might be trying a little too hard to make something happen he is not the problem at this point.

  3. #3
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    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    I am not saying he is "the" problem, my point is that unlike the other "problems" on the roster, this one has a potential solution, ie more time for faulk. The other players who are screwing up, especially on defense, are better than anyone else currently on the roster thus i dont see how we can do much to fix them now.

    I totally disagree with the view (although of course i respect your opinion rambo) that bulgers int was as bad as jacksons fumble. Bulgers int happened when we were winning 17-0 still early in the game.

    Jacksons fumble occurred in the third quarter when we still had the lead but they had the momentum, We were driving the ball with the chance to take a two score lead again and reassert ourselves. When he coughed it up, they subsequently took the lead and didnt look back.
    Just my view, reasonable people can differ

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    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    Too tentative getting through the hole and to the line of scrimmage. Fumbles. Mental errors, questionable hands. Shows great skills at times, has a great future, especially when he gets a big hole and gets into the secondary in space so that he can physically dominate. Good player now, but not ready to really take over in my opinion when you have faulk on the bench.
    I agree with you on this. He has great potential, but I think it's too late to turn back and make Faulk the starter. The fact that Marshall has seen limited time this year tells me that he's not capable of carrying the load.

    My issue with the run game, aside from not using it enough IMO, is that we have 4 RB's on the active roster, yet only 2 are playing. How about giving Harris, who I think is pretty good, some time in there on short yardage situations?
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  5. #5
    Shadesofgrey Guest

    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    I think Jackson is a good back. He just doesn't fit into the style of O that Martz likes to run. IMO he lacks the hands, quick cuts, and intelligence to excel like Faulk did in this offense. Also, he has poor ball handling skills and isn't as durable. I think someone like Reggie Bush would be a perfect replacement for Faulk. Jackson would fit better with a team like the Titans or Patriots.

  6. #6
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    I agree with GC on this. He has not shown good hands in the passing game, the ability to cut, high step over the ankle tackles, and he is not as good at reading the defense as Faulk. At this point our best RB is on the bench. I agree with what GC is saying he is saying try to fix the problems that we can fix which is currently the players we have. The DBs are bad but we also have no clear cut winners and we need to continue looking for them. This is clear cut that Faulk is better at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    How about the way he came out running like the beast he is, the run for a TD. Everyone is going to lose a fumble now an again.
    Did you see the beast get tackled twice by someone grabbing his ankles with one hand? He has no shake and bake and I cringe when they throw him the ball because he does not make it look smooth he is not a good hands catcher.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMMAN68
    The fact that Marshall has seen limited time this year tells me that he's not capable of carrying the load.
    Jackson looked somewhat impressive last year. MM along with Faulk made a decision to give Jackson a #1 draft pick the starting job before preseason started based on the limited amount of time that they saw him last year. They have stuck with him trying not to create a RB controversy. That is the main reason Marshall has seen limited action not because he is incapable of carrying the load. First he has to have the chance this year before we can say he canít carry the load.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadesofgrey
    I think Jackson is a good back. He just doesn't fit into the style of O that Martz likes to run. IMO he lacks the hands, quick cuts, and intelligence to excel like Faulk did in this offense.
    I agree. It sounds like you would like someone like Faulk which we have a guy on the bench that wears #28 I have saw him in limited action this year but he looks similar to what Faulk used to look like it sure would be nice to see more of him to see if he is like Faulk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadesofgrey
    Also, he has poor ball handling skills and isn't as durable.
    I am not ready to make this statement yet but I am leaning towards what you are saying.

  7. #7
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    Jackson looked somewhat impressive last year. MM along with Faulk made a decision to give Jackson a #1 draft pick the starting job before preseason started based on the limited amount of time that they saw him last year. They have stuck with him trying not to create a RB controversy. That is the main reason Marshall has seen limited action not because he is incapable of carrying the load. First he has to have the chance this year before we can say he canít carry the load.
    It's a moot point, because it was Marshall who approached Martz about Jackson taking over so he could play longer. Putting Marshall back into the starting line-up or significantly upping his carries isn't something Marshall seems to want to do, so why do we keep discussing it?

    Jackson has struggled at times receiving in the flat on sweeps, but when I've seen him over the middle, he's looked fine as a receiver. When the blocking up front has been good, he's gained good positive yardage. When the blocking isn't good or we call plays that aren't suited to Jackson's running style, he doesn't do well. The Rams have Jackson, so they just need to figure out how to utilize him. Once they do that, I think he'll do very well.

    Keep in mind, Jackson just finished his 20th game and ninth start as a pro. Have we really gotten to the point where if rookies don't cause our jaws to drop every touch in their first year or two that we write them off as our best option at that position?
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  8. #8
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Putting Marshall back into the starting line-up or significantly upping his carries isn't something Marshall seems to want to do, so why do we keep discussing it?
    I don’t buy for one minute that Marshall doesn’t want to be out there. I think he thought that the gap between him and Jackson had narrowed last season in the limited action he saw Jackson in. He knew Jackson was a first round pick and had to get a chance to start with in a couple years or every one would be screaming why in the hell did you draft him in the first round if you are not going to at least give him a shot to start with in two years.

    Who knows who really says what?
    Their story is the easiest and most graceful way for Marshall to bow out of the starters roll. Saying he told the coach it was time to give Jackson a shot it then is not as much about the coach admitting to everyone that he thinks Faulk cant do it as it is Faulk saying he would prefer to take a lesser role and give Jackson a shot. When they left it up to Faulk last year he was not taking him self out of the game. I remember one game people screaming why didn’t Jackson get any carries and it came out that Faulk was the one making the calls on when he came out. There is a lot of pressure on a head coach to give a starting opportunity to a 1st round pick. Maybe they gave Faulk the ultimatum that he either needed to accept this or else because they made a commitment with that pick they had to give him the chance to start. Remember all this happened before they even stepped into training camp. It was not even an open competition.
    Keep in mind, Jackson just finished his 20th game and ninth start as a pro. Have we really gotten to the point where if rookies don't cause our jaws to drop every touch in their first year or two that we write them off as our best option at that position?
    No but in a 16 game season if you are hoping to get to the playoffs and you are setting at 2-4 you better not be waiting on potential you better put your best players out there every Sunday and I think #28 setting on the bench is better at this point. I still like Jackson in some smash mouth sets. But receiving, blocking, and shake and bake we need Faulk. Any one can run North South if the OL opens big enough holes but if they don’t then you need cutting (Faulk).
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -10-20-2005 at 01:34 AM.

  9. #9
    sbramfan Guest

    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    The good news is that Jackson has tons of upside.

    At the moment, his lack of speed to the line, and the small little steps are wasting his god given talents to pound the rock. We only see the burst every 5th or 6th run.

    In my opinion, not only his fumble, but his inability to score on 2nd and goal from the 1 early in the game also cost them. All you have to do is get a head of steam and if the hole isn't there, jump. Jackson went at it slow and was looking for a hole to open. Unacceptable on a 1 yard play for a guy that would seem to be built for one thing....getting that 1 freakin yard when you need it.

  10. #10
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    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    I cringe when they throw him the ball because he does not make it look smooth he is not a good hands catcher.
    He looked smooth when he got a pass in the flat for a TD in a game. Lets not forget he is a young guy, that is replacing a HOF'er in Marshal. This really is his first year, behind a new O-line that is just getting going. Time will tell, I think he is going to be great.

  11. #11
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    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    I see Jackson's problems as this.....

    1. He's in the most complicated offense in existence. At OSU it was simple...."Stephen, take the ball and run that way". Here, the run game is more about timing. It was built with Faulk in mind and he ran it to perfection. Jackson is a straight ahead runner, and will take time to adjust. Just like with Hargrove, Fitz, Bartell, and others....it ain't gonna happen overnight.

    2. Our interior run blocking is terrible. Nutten, McCollum, and Timmerman....God love'em....aren't getting it done in run blocking. Our guards pull and trap a lot and we're just not getting to the blocks in time. This leaves Jackson wide open to get creamed in the backfield while he's waiting for the block to come across. Look at some of the plays where SJ gets hit in the backfield, you will see a guard coming across a step later everytime. One of the highlights of this game was the play of Terrell. It seemed like either Vitt or Fairchild recognized the value in having one Egg McMuffin shy of 700 pounds worth of blockers on the left side with Pace and Terrell. There wasn't a lot of stunting behind the line, it was simple...."Orlando, kick out the end. Claude, run over anything in front of you. Stephen, run that way". Hopefully, that is the future of our running game.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #12
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    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    2. Our interior run blocking is terrible. Nutten, McCollum, and Timmerman....God love'em....aren't getting it done in run blocking. Our guards pull and trap a lot and we're just not getting to the blocks in time. This leaves Jackson wide open to get creamed in the backfield while he's waiting for the block to come across. Look at some of the plays where SJ gets hit in the backfield, you will see a guard coming across a step later everytime. One of the highlights of this game was the play of Terrell. It seemed like either Vitt or Fairchild recognized the value in having one Egg McMuffin shy of 700 pounds worth of blockers on the left side with Pace and Terrell. There wasn't a lot of stunting behind the line, it was simple...."Orlando, kick out the end. Claude, run over anything in front of you. Stephen, run that way". Hopefully, that is the future of our running game.
    McCollum was whiffing baddly on Monday. One thing I like about Rex Tucker is his run blocking skills. Hopefully he will be able to play this season.
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  13. #13
    Tony Soprano Guest

    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    Hubison's #2 is dead on. Jackson has run into some brick walls. In the Colts game rushing:

    Faulk: .. 4.1 avg per carry
    Jackson: 5.2 avg

    .

  14. #14
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    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    The only thing I can't stand, after the fumble, in the next series (the one that blocked Martin pass and we recover at the 4 yard line) the first to downs he got the ball and the safety tackled him with one hand, not one arm, one hand, I've never seen MF been tackled with one hand, I guess that shows the morale he had at that time. I think he had already some chances, he didn't take them, let MF share more playtime... o give Harris a chance, I WANT A 100 YARD GAME!!!!!!

  15. #15
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    Re: I like steven jackson but...

    I WANT A 100 YARD GAME!!!!!!
    Hard to do when he's not getting 20 carries a game.

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