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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Clemens is a career back up....but as stated by AV, he did have a nice game yesterday. He has a QB rating of 80 overall....very serviceable and he is a game manager. With that said, he made a nice deep throw yesterday to a wide open Tavon (seen a few of those dropped and/or missed this year and/or penalty negating said score)....and he hit Tavon in stride on the 81 yard TD. All good in my book.
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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    In Bradford's absence, we must run the football, play solid defense and have Clemens play similar to what he showed yesterday- an efficient performance which limits mistakes. Asking more from a back-up QB is both unrealistic and unfair. You don't ask the back-up to win games for you, you ask him not to lose it.
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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Quote Originally Posted by live4ramin View Post
    I didn't get to see the game. I just caught lame game day reports on my phone and texts from the wife. I'll ask you guys, did it seem like we took our foot off the gas in the forth quarter? What's with that?
    Yes we did big time, even some victory formations with plenty of time left, but the game was un loseable at that time and we just needed a W. So I didn't care.

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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    It's not Clemens, although he played error free football when others were flying in their game. Zak Stacy has arrived as our starting Running back and Tavon Austin had a great game. The other side of the ball was out of control intercepting Luck 3 times and Hasstleback once with a fumble recovery for a quick 6. Our Defense won that game for us.


    GO RAMS!!!

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    Although Clemens is doing well in his role, he wouldn't have the success he's having without Zach Stacy. Look at this team right now. It has Fisher written all over it. We are running the ball effectively (finally) and the defense is getting better each week. Consistency is key. Our schedule, with some really lucky breaks injury wise, looks...doable. I loved seeing our guys make some plays. We have playmakers now. Hopefully Tavon will cause mismatches to open things up for Cook and the other guys. It would be nice to carry over this momentum into a game but any time you can win before your bye week is, to me, a major victory.


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiianpunch View Post
    Simple question then Bradford or Clemens? I take Bradford any day of the week.
    The intent of this thread appears IMO to congratulate Clemens for playing well, managing the game efficiently, which ultimately led to a win. Comparing Clemens to Bradford is not in this equation. Bradford is our starter period! Clemens is our #1 backup. Yesterday he did exactly what he is being paid to do. No comparisons with Sam are required.

    Tavon Austin made Clemens look brilliant and so did Zac Stacy in prior weeks.
    That's one way of looking at it. Another would be to recognize that Clemens developed a good chemistry/timing with Tavon while running the scout team, which is a backup qb's primary duty during practice while the starter (Sam) takes all the reps with the "ones". Stacy spent some time with the scout team as well prior to his recent emergence and subsequent promotion to "starter".

    You still have to make the pass, but any quarterback in the nfl even Brady Quinn probably could have made those passes but my hat is off to him for not turning the ball over. He's still not the answer and i will offer him no apology for throwing ducks against Seattle, when they were very make-able throws all game long on that Monday night. Against Seattle our receivers were open, he was either under throwing them or over throwing them.Tavon Austin made Clemens look brilliant and so did Zac Stacy in prior weeks.
    No question Clemens missed some key throws, but he'd only had a week practicing with the first team. If Kellen makes a couple of those throws he missed (against the hags), we might have won. He didn't .. I am hoping his timing will improve as he gets more practice reps and live game reps with the first team offense. Notice I said "hoping" as I do not pretend to be a soothsayer.

    But i digress we snapped a 3 game losing streak with a back up and if he keeps showing that he can lead this team to the playoffs ill take back what i said.
    I hope he can too, this is the reason I posted in an earlier thread that I believe Kellen gives us the best chance to win of any qb on our roster right now. Why? Because he knows the playbook even better than Sam B. His physical skills do not equal Sam's, but with Kellen at the helm, Schotty will not have to dumb down his playbook as he would most surely have to with Austin Davis, or Brady Quinn. If anything, Schotty may be able to use even more - we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Clemens had a nice game yesterday, and has played okay overall.

    But let's be clear here. He's never going to be more than a back-up QB.

    I think what many of us would like to see (myself included) is a younger back-up QB who might have greater upside.
    If it becomes apparent that we are numerically eliminated from the playoffs, then fine - go ahead and see what Davis or Quinn bring. Until then - Kellen should be the man IMO ..

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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Clemens has got better in each game. What else can you ask of the guy ?

    I don't think it really changes my opinion about his limited upside or creates any kind of QB controversy. The Rams have been good for one of these trap game victories every year during these dark times even with a back-up under center.

    Avoiding the big mistake will continue to be more important to any continued team success,imo, than his trying to be the hero.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -11-11-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    Clemens has got better in each game. What else can you ask of the guy ?
    Keep it up!


    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    I don't think it really changes my opinion about his limited upside or creates any kind of QB controversy. The Rams have been good for one of these trap game victories every year during these dark times even with a back-up under center.
    Hopefully we can "trap" a few more vs the whiners and the Saints. There isn't going to be a qb controversy when it comes to Sam and Kellen. Thankfully it looks like Kellen might be capable of leading this team until Sam can come back. There may also be a silver lining for Sam in this. Sam will have the chance to see live game reps from a perspective he would never get as a starter. Bradford has a chance to really learn from this - I believe he will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    Avoiding the big mistake will continue be more important to any continued team success,imo, than his trying to be the hero.
    Couldn't agree more. Manage the game and avoid dumb decisions. It is becoming apparent there is some talent on our roster on both sides of the ball. Kellen must continue to spread the ball around, and hopefully be able to rely on our D to keep things close.

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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    IMO what this game showed was that the Rams are very talented when focused and not making stupid mistakes. They need a few players but they don't need pro-bowlers at their positions of need to be competitive throughout the NFL season.

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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    The intent of this thread appears IMO to congratulate Clemens for playing well, managing the game efficiently, which ultimately led to a win. Comparing Clemens to Bradford is not in this equation. Bradford is our starter period! Clemens is our #1 backup. Yesterday he did exactly what he is being paid to do. No comparisons with Sam are required.
    Exactly. Thank you for understanding.

    The thread is honestly nothing more than a confidence booster for me for the rest of the season. Bradford is our guy, just like Fisher said after his injury. There's no question that he is our franchise QB. When Bradford went down, I immediately lost all hope. I know how important he is to this team and I'm surprised we're playing such great football. Props to Clemens for helping us with that. It's not like I think Clemens is the next Tom Brady, I'm just glad he's performing well enough during Bradford's absence to keep us competetive.

    Again, Clemens is nothing more than a rest-of-the-season fill-in while Bradford heals, so let's try and make the best of it while we're stuck with it. Especially when we travel to an elite team's home and handle them.
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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Clemens had a nice game yesterday, and has played okay overall.

    But let's be clear here. He's never going to be more than a back-up QB.

    I think what many of us would like to see (myself included) is a younger back-up QB who might have greater upside.
    He's obviously nothing more than a back-up, so when he plays well and we win against a quality opponent on the road I'm going to enjoy the hell out of it. I'm just trying to make the best out of my worst football nightmare coming to reality(Bradford getting seriously injured).

    I wouldn't be against a younger back-up behind Bradford, but I wouldn't invest much into one. I think the staff is going to give Clemens a shot the rest of the way to hold onto the spot. Why not? Let's see if he takes advantage. Or maybe he flops the next few games and gets benched. It's very possible, but as a Rams fan, I don't want to see that happen.
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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    In Bradford's absence, we must run the football, play solid defense and have Clemens play similar to what he showed yesterday- an efficient performance which limits mistakes. Asking more from a back-up QB is both unrealistic and unfair. You don't ask the back-up to win games for you, you ask him not to lose it.
    I'm confused if you're directing this towards me? My post clearly states that I believe, with our team playing solid in all phases, that he can manage games well enough for us to come away with a few more wins this season. Something no one was initially expecting with Clemens forced under center.

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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    In Bradford's absence, we must run the football, play solid defense and have Clemens play similar to what he showed yesterday- an efficient performance which limits mistakes. Asking more from a back-up QB is both unrealistic and unfair. You don't ask the back-up to win games for you, you ask him not to lose it.
    sounds like what we ask of Bradford as well. I don't really see much difference out there in what we ask of our QB, except for 17 million dollars, or whatever. Apparently all we ask of our QB is to not make mistakes.

    Again, I do not expect Clemens to become a great QB, but I do have to acknowledge that he brings some things to the table with his scrappy-ness. I read a thread on another board that summed it up quite well for me:

    That second TD reception for Austin was one of Clemens' more impressive plays. He felt the pressure, avoided it by stepping up in the pocket, made a goofy throw in order to avoid pressure coming right in his face, and hit Austin in stride. Austin took care of the rest.

    Clemens, being nimble of foot and having decent pocket awareness, PLUS his ability to make some god-awful looking throws from a mechanical standpoint, helped to make that play possible. Not trying to start a flame war, but I don't know if Bradford makes that play. To be fair, perhaps Clemens threw a mediocre pass to Austin on the 57 yard TD and maybe Bradford makes a better throw.

    Bradford has the better arm, but Clemens is a little more of a play-maker than Bradford and that is my biggest knock on Bradford. In the NFL these days, there is no perfect O'line. All QB's are harassed all day long. The issue with Bradford (same issue I had with Bulger) is that when the play breaks down, after the snap you count "1.....2......3....." at that point in every play it is over for Bradford. He has gone through his reads and is about to be pummeled. QB's with a better pocket awareness and play-making ability are just getting started at that point and slide around a bit and then often make something happen. Sometimes these plays are the biggest of the game because the defense is also only prepared to cover the designed play and not after that. This was the drop off we missed from Kurt Warner to Marc Bulger. Sure, with no pressure, perhaps Bulger was the more accurate passer, like Sam.

    And I'm not trying to promote Clemens to be our starting QB, moreso just pointing out that he does have a good pocket presence and can make some plays when things go wrong and that is a huge advantage that Bradford does not have. Coming out of college they said that Bradford can throw on the run, but it turns out that only referred to the designed runs to the right (probably not a bad idea to get him out of the pocket where he is vulnerable). But that's a lot different than saying drew brees can throw on the run....when he's scrambling around for his life and making big plays.

    I think as we play a few more games with another average NFL caliber QB, we will find that that is what Bradford is too, average. It all looks about the same to me, stats-wise, score-wise. We'd win 7 games every year with Clemens also. What is it that Bradford has done again that makes him seem like he's going to be better than average after 4 years? if I were to be asked to describe his abilities, I'm not sure anything really stands out. Leader? I've not really seen that. Ummm, he doesn't throw a lot of picks, yet is not very durable, kind of one-dimensional. That would be my summary.

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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Quote Originally Posted by renrawtruk View Post
    sounds like what we ask of Bradford as well. I don't really see much difference out there in what we ask of our QB, except for 17 million dollars, or whatever. Apparently all we ask of our QB is to not make mistakes.

    Again, I do not expect Clemens to become a great QB, but I do have to acknowledge that he brings some things to the table with his scrappy-ness. I read a thread on another board that summed it up quite well for me:




    Bradford has the better arm, but Clemens is a little more of a play-maker than Bradford and that is my biggest knock on Bradford. In the NFL these days, there is no perfect O'line. All QB's are harassed all day long. The issue with Bradford (same issue I had with Bulger) is that when the play breaks down, after the snap you count "1.....2......3....." at that point in every play it is over for Bradford. He has gone through his reads and is about to be pummeled. QB's with a better pocket awareness and play-making ability are just getting started at that point and slide around a bit and then often make something happen. Sometimes these plays are the biggest of the game because the defense is also only prepared to cover the designed play and not after that. This was the drop off we missed from Kurt Warner to Marc Bulger. Sure, with no pressure, perhaps Bulger was the more accurate passer, like Sam.

    And I'm not trying to promote Clemens to be our starting QB, moreso just pointing out that he does have a good pocket presence and can make some plays when things go wrong and that is a huge advantage that Bradford does not have. Coming out of college they said that Bradford can throw on the run, but it turns out that only referred to the designed runs to the right (probably not a bad idea to get him out of the pocket where he is vulnerable). But that's a lot different than saying drew brees can throw on the run....when he's scrambling around for his life and making big plays.

    I think as we play a few more games with another average NFL caliber QB, we will find that that is what Bradford is too, average. It all looks about the same to me, stats-wise, score-wise. We'd win 7 games every year with Clemens also. What is it that Bradford has done again that makes him seem like he's going to be better than average after 4 years? if I were to be asked to describe his abilities, I'm not sure anything really stands out. Leader? I've not really seen that. Ummm, he doesn't throw a lot of picks, yet is not very durable, kind of one-dimensional. That would be my summary.
    And of course you took this post and turned it into yet ANOTHER complete breakdown of Bradford.....quite annoying to say the least.

    I owe no apologies to Clemens because I neither said nor directed anything to him deserving of an apology. BUT I was highly deflated after the game in Seattle and I was entirely worried it was going to be a whole bunch of the same from there on out. I am pleasantly surprised by his performance since then and was genuinely shocked by both of his throws to Tavon. The first one was spot on with Tavon in full stride and the second one I thought he was going to just run for the first down and instead he put it right where Tavon needed it to make a HUGE play. Clemens has done enough to at least keep me optimistic in our chances to win some more games going forward.
    Steve

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    re: I think most of us owe an apology to...

    Quote Originally Posted by renrawtruk View Post
    sounds like what we ask of Bradford as well. I don't really see much difference out there in what we ask of our QB, except for 17 million dollars, or whatever. Apparently all we ask of our QB is to not make mistakes.

    Again, I do not expect Clemens to become a great QB, but I do have to acknowledge that he brings some things to the table with his scrappy-ness. I read a thread on another board that summed it up quite well for me:




    Bradford has the better arm, but Clemens is a little more of a play-maker than Bradford and that is my biggest knock on Bradford. In the NFL these days, there is no perfect O'line. All QB's are harassed all day long. The issue with Bradford (same issue I had with Bulger) is that when the play breaks down, after the snap you count "1.....2......3....." at that point in every play it is over for Bradford. He has gone through his reads and is about to be pummeled. QB's with a better pocket awareness and play-making ability are just getting started at that point and slide around a bit and then often make something happen. Sometimes these plays are the biggest of the game because the defense is also only prepared to cover the designed play and not after that. This was the drop off we missed from Kurt Warner to Marc Bulger. Sure, with no pressure, perhaps Bulger was the more accurate passer, like Sam.

    And I'm not trying to promote Clemens to be our starting QB, moreso just pointing out that he does have a good pocket presence and can make some plays when things go wrong and that is a huge advantage that Bradford does not have. Coming out of college they said that Bradford can throw on the run, but it turns out that only referred to the designed runs to the right (probably not a bad idea to get him out of the pocket where he is vulnerable). But that's a lot different than saying drew brees can throw on the run....when he's scrambling around for his life and making big plays.

    I think as we play a few more games with another average NFL caliber QB, we will find that that is what Bradford is too, average. It all looks about the same to me, stats-wise, score-wise. We'd win 7 games every year with Clemens also. What is it that Bradford has done again that makes him seem like he's going to be better than average after 4 years? if I were to be asked to describe his abilities, I'm not sure anything really stands out. Leader? I've not really seen that. Ummm, he doesn't throw a lot of picks, yet is not very durable, kind of one-dimensional. That would be my summary.
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