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Thread: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

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    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    If you make the mistake that I constantly make - combing the internet for news and commentary - you'll see that its already started.

    The suggestion that maybe, just maybe, the Rams aren't any worse off without Sam Bradford.

    Poppycock, of course.

    If you look at the per game averages of Bradford and Kellen Clemens, its not hard to see the disparities.

    Bradford: 23-37 (.622), 241.0 yards, 2 TDs, .57 INT
    Clemens: 15-27 (.556), 205.0 yards, 1 TD, .67 INT

    There are many reasons why the Rams might finish strong despite the loss of Sam Bradford, including Zac Stacy's emergence and solidification of the running game, improvement of young receiving corps, and improved play by the defense.

    Still, its inevitable. If the Rams win 3 or more of their remaining 6 games (which, of course, we should all be hoping will occur), people will question the impact of the loss of Bradford.

    Why will they do this?

    In some cases, its ignorance. Those who didn't follow the Rams closely this season might be unaware of Bradford's improved play (among QBs with 250+ attempts this year, Sam ranks 9th in passer rating). Those commentators are likely to simply presume that, if the Rams' winning percentage with and without Sam is comparable, then his loss did not impact performance (anyone with a rudimentary understanding of statistics knows that this conclusion does not necessarily follow, but sports commentators often lack such an understanding.

    The second group of people who will push the "no worse off" argument are, of course, those with an agenda. We are all aware that certain fans just don't like Bradford. Whether that's due to his contract or the high expectations placed on a No. 1 overall pick is immaterial. There are fans who simply wish for his departure.

    Here's my view. The Rams are currently 1-2 with Clemens at the helm. I hope that they finish the year with a record of 7-2 with Clemens starting. If they do, however, I will not conclude that they wouldn't have achieved the same record with Bradford. In fact, I might even question whether the two losses (both of which were due, in some extent, to errors by Clemens) would not have occured had Sam been healthy.

    Whatever happens, I will always root for the players on the field wearing the Rams' uniform. Sure, I'll be annoyed by those who try to spin what happens on the field against a player, such as Bradford. But, in the end, I hope the conclusion is that the Rams have TWO viable NFL starting QBs.

    That would be a nice problem to have.


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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    If by some miracle we run the table with Clemons as our starter, it will be because the young roster is gaining experience and the team is starting to gel, not because Clemons is better than Bradford.

    Then I'll really be looking forward to what we can accomplish next year with a more experienced roster AND Bradford at the helm.
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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    Wait, you don't mean that Clemons isn't doing a better job of working with the defense, and that's why they played lights out in this game? I'm sorry, but there's no way Bradford could have helped Quinn and Long get that pressure on the QB. That's all Kellen Clemons. We need to cut Bradford now!
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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    I reserve to comment on this at seasons end =)

    However..... the team HAS RESPONDED positively without Bradford at the helm, and that may or may not be a very telling psycho-analytical story of its own
    Last edited by punahou; -11-14-2013 at 05:48 PM.

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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    The team is playing great to the point of making us question why it took so long, however Kellen Clemmins is not. He is 1 and 2 because of his errors not the teams. I as AvR points out believe we would have won those games with Sammy at the helm. KC is not a starter by any means whatsoever imho. Barely a serviceable back up. I pray to god we draft a QB to groom as a viable backup or starter for the future...

    I still would like to give our other two back up QB's a chance when KC begins to falter badly again. Sadly I believe he will. But as has been shown with Fish he is a stick with my Vets kinda guy not sure he will pull KC till he goes down with injury. So I reckon we ride the KC train till the sunshine band shows up to play us into the off season.... Whooopeee!
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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Here's my view. The Rams are currently 1-2 with Clemens at the helm. I hope that they finish the year with a record of 7-2 with Clemens starting. If they do, however, I will not conclude that they wouldn't have achieved the same record with Bradford.
    Lets say the Rams do finish strong with Clemens, do the Rams need to draft another QB? If Clemens who knows the offense very well, why draft another QB if he shows he's a good backup. That's what I'm looking at, more then how Bradford somehow is not missed.

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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    "KC and the Sunshine Band"...love it Randart! This season has a new lease on life after the dismantling of the Colts, doesn't it? Absolutely cannot wait for bye week to be over and on to Chicago.

    It's just a whole new dynamic with a semblance of a run game emerging. I truly believe Sam would be thriving in it, just as KC is freed to make plays too. "That's the way..uh huh uh huh...I like it" uh huh uh huh.
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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Lets say the Rams do finish strong with Clemens, do the Rams need to draft another QB? If Clemens who knows the offense very well, why draft another QB if he shows he's a good backup. That's what I'm looking at, more then how Bradford somehow is not missed.
    If that were to happen, I would still like to have a third QB who is viewed as having some long-term upside. The question would be whether the Rams would be willing to devote a roster spot to such a player.

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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude View Post
    If by some miracle we run the table with Clemons as our starter, it will be because the young roster is gaining experience and the team is starting to gel, not because Clemons is better than Bradford.

    Then I'll really be looking forward to what we can accomplish next year with a more experienced roster AND Bradford at the helm.
    So you're totally confident that Sam Bradford will be 100% (or as close as can be expected after this type of injury) next year?

    Look at the way Robert Griffin III played to start the season after a similar injury. It certainly seemed like his knee gave him problems physically and mentally, both in his passing and in the sense that it looked like he panicked a bit under direct pressure.
    You don't think Bradford might be affected in a similar way?

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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    Sam is a pocket passer. RGIII is still having to develop that skill. I expect the injury to have no impact on Sam's productivity. We view RGIII's comeback as impeded because he couldn't be the runner he was early in the season.

    I just think that Sam's head will be clearer than RGIII's after the injury due to the different nature of their games. At least I'm hoping that Sam continues to have the good pocket mobility he seemed to be developing.

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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    There are several key differences between Sam's injury and RGIII's.

    1. RGIII tore his ACL and LCL. Sam only tore his ACL.

    2. RGIII had his surgery in January. Sam will have his this month. That gives Sam head start of at least 6 weeks of recovery time before next season starts.

    3. RGIII injury was to his right leg, while Sam's is to his left leg. A right handed QB pushes off his right leg when throwing. Therefore, the throwing motion is more impacted by a right leg injury than by a left leg injury.

    4. Sam does not rely on his running ability in the same way that RGIII does.
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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    The team we play next is going through this process, albeit there is more at stake. Specifically a playoff spot. There are many fans in Chicago who want the Bears to stay with Josh McCown regardless of Jay Cutler's health. Well as a Rams fan I hope they do stay with McCown because he may have a hot hand right now, but he is not as good as Cutler, when healthy.

    I sort of agree with Rambos that KC's play through the end of the season may impact our thoughts as to drafting a better back-up. Sam is right now our best option going forward. If the FO feels differently then we'll know at the time of the draft.

    Go Rams!

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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    People can spin the results however they want.

    At the end of the day, Fisher's voice is the only one that matters, and he made it very clear that Sam is the QB when he returns.

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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    Agendas seem to abound regarding Sam B. My only hope for the team right now is to play competitive football and win as many games as they can.

    I would say that blaming Clemons (to some extent) for the two losses is a bit of a stretch. In the Seattle game, Greg missed a makeable FG and Clemons drove the team almost the length of the field only to fall short (Givens missed a past too at the goal line )

    Against the Titans, we let CJ run wild against us. To the order of something he had not done in about a year.
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    Re: If the Rams continue to win, don't be that guy.

    I'd love to see ANY Rams QB succeed. I don't think Clemens is a franchise type QB. Unfortunately, after 4 seasons, there is still some doubt about Bradford. So far he has only completed every other season. So, can he stay healthy? He still has an issue with staring down receivers. I think that's something that can be corrected. I just wonder why it hasn't been yet. Bradford moves well enough to get out of the pocket. However, he doesn't move that well IN the pocket, and he gets happy feet and awful lot. Again, I think these are things that can be fixed. But they haven't been.

    If Sam had been a 2nd or 3rd round pick, you'd probably hear less grumbling. He has not yet performed to the level that many would expect from the 1st overall pick in the draft. Now we've lost the rest of this season to develop his skills. I guess it's wait til next year time again.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

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