View Poll Results: Who has done better this year Martz or Vitt?

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  • Martz

    11 84.62%
  • Vitt

    2 15.38%
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  1. #1
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Exclamation If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    If you had to pick one who has done better this year with the team Martz or Vitt?

    I have heard several people bash Vitt and although I don’t think he is a good long-term coach I think he has done just as good as Martz has this year as our interim coach.

    Here are a few stats to consider when judging Vitt compared to Martz.

    Martz
    Record: 2-3
    Winning %: 40%
    Record of opponents 27-33 45% (Under 500)
    Rams Points: 128 or 25.6 ppg
    Opponents: 148 or 29.6 ppg
    Difference: -4.0 ppg

    Games coached:
    ***** (2-10) L 28-25 - We lost to a team that has only 1 win in 11 other games.
    Cards (4-8) W 17-12 - Tards had an excellent chance of winning at the end just a few yards away.
    Titans (3-9) W 31-27 - Barron played and did well.
    Giants (8-4) L 44-24 - Barron started and did good this was our biggest point loss all year.
    Seahawks (10-2) L 37-31 - We lost without their two starting WR’s.


    Vitt
    Record: 3-4
    Winning %: 42.9%
    Record of opponents 45-39 54% (Over 500 tougher schedule)
    Rams Points: 170 or 24.3 ppg (Was 26.8 before last game)
    Opponents: 210 or 30 ppg
    Difference: -5.7 ppg

    Games coached:
    Colts (12-0) L 45-28 - Rams where leading 20-14 at half before Bulger went down. Jackson 17 for 88. Faulk was 4 for 17 rushing. Bulger threw 8 passes Martin threw 21.
    Saints (3-9) W 28-17 - Matins first ever win as a starter. Jackson 20 carries 97 yards.
    Jags (9-3) W 24-21 - Jackson 25 carries for 179 Faulk 6 for 23 Martin started. Only win this year against a team that is 500 or better.
    Seahawks (10-2) L 31-16 - Bulgers first game back 28-40 threw for 304 yards Jackson 17 for 70 yards.
    Cards (4-8) L 38-28 - Jackson 12 carries for 6 yards. Martin came in near the end of the third for Bulger who was injured and it was 17-16 after the 3rd . The Rams were outscored 22-11 in the 4th while Bulger was out of the game.
    Texans (1-11) W 37-34 - Martin started was injured and Fitz comes in and wins the game. Jackson 25 for 110 yards.
    Skins (6-6) L 24-9 - Fitzpatrick started Jackson 11 for 24 Fitz 5 for 22.


    Jackson
    Was healthy under both Martz and Vitt.

    Jackson’s numbers under Martz 5 games as coach.
    Carries per game: 15.2
    Yards per game: 59
    Average yards per rush: 3.9
    Total yards: 295

    Jackson’s numbers under Vitts 7 games as coach.
    Carries per game: 18.1
    Yards per game: 82
    Average yards per rush: 4.52
    Total yards: 574

    Bruce
    Played healthy in 3 games for Martz and was out 2 games with injury.
    Catches: 9
    Yards: 136
    Yards per game: 45.3

    Played injured in 4 games for Vitt and was out 3 games with injury.
    Catches: 13
    Yards: 226
    Yards per game: 56.5

    Holt
    Started and was healthy for all 5 games under Martz.
    Was healthy in 1 game for Vitt. Out for 2 games. Played less then 100% for 4 games.

    ARCH
    Started and was healthy for all 5 games under Martz.
    Healthy for 4 games, was injured in the AZ game and had to come out and was out 2 of the 7 games under Vitt.

    T. Fisher
    Started and was healthy under Martz for all 5 games.
    1 game healthy, 2 games played injured, and 4 games he was out under Vitt.

    Groce
    Started and was healthy in all 5 games under Martz.
    Played injured in 2 games and was out 1 game under Vitt.

    We started the Texans game with out any of the DB starters at the beginning of the year (Groce, Fisher, Arch, and Hawthorne started the year).

    Roland Williams
    Played in 4 of the 5 games for Martz.
    Played in 0 games for Vitt out the rest of the year.

    Saipaia
    Healthy all 5 games for Martz.
    Was unable to play in three games for Vitt because of injury.

    Nutten
    Played in all 5 games under Martz.
    He missed 4 of the 7 games Vitt coached and is out the rest of the year.

    Coakley
    Did not miss any time under Martz. He has missed some time and is now out the rest of the year under Vitt.

    Terrell
    Was healthy under Martz for 5 games, he saw limited action in two games under Vitt due to injury and was out 1 game.

    Pace and Terrell came both came out against Houston. Sepia was already out for the entire game.

    Little
    Played healthy both physically and mentally all 5 games for Martz. 4 sacks total over 5 games.
    Played mentally healthy for 1 game with Vat. Out two games because of brother’s death. Four games since his brother’s death he is still working out his mental issues. 0 sacks last 4 games. Little has 0 sacks since Vitt has been head coach.

    Barron
    Has been injured and missed 1 game and possibly more.

    Bulger
    Started all 5 games Martz coached and was fully healthy.

    Bulger started and finished only one game for Vitt against Seattle after nearly a month layoff. Missed 4 games. Got injured in two others we led in both games around the time he went out (Martin came in and lost both games). We led at Indy at half and we led AZ after the 3rd quarter.


    QB under Martz
    Bulger (5 games started and finished.)
    Attempts: 215
    Completions: 139
    Passing percentage: 64.7 %
    Average QB rating per game: 93.7

    QB’s Under Vitt
    Bulger (3 games only 1 started and finished)
    Attempts: 72
    Completions: 53
    Passing percentage: 73.6 % (Better then under Martz)
    Average QB rating per game: 113.3 (Better then under Martz)

    Martin (3 games started, 2 started and finished, 2 others replacing Bulger) (Not Bad)
    Attempts: 93
    Completions: 64
    Passing percentage: 68.8 % (Better then Bulgers under Martz)
    Average QB rating per game: 86.1

    Fitz (1 game started and completed and 1 game replacing Martin) (Not Bad)
    Attempts: 66
    Completions: 40
    Passing percentage: 60.6 %
    Average QB rating per game: 87.7

    Three QB's combined under Vitt:
    Attempts: 231
    Completions: 157
    Passing percentage: 68 % (Better then Bulgers under Martz)
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -12-11-2005 at 03:03 AM.


  2. #2
    RamJackson39's Avatar
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    This isnt even fair. Although I have stated that I dont think anyone could have done better than Vitt, the fact remains that Martz was sick. To compare the stats of a guy that obviously had other things to worry about to a guy that is solely focused on football is just not even fair.

    Also, we had a chance to win every game except one under Martz. We had a good chance of beating the Seahawks and the Niners. All were one turnover away from wins, and only one was Martz's fault. Throwing the football against the Niners, when we're already in the Redzone was stupid. Terry Fair coming out of the game was not his fault.
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  3. #3
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Thumbs down Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJackson39
    This isnt even fair.
    Its a fair question you just don't like it. Vitt had far more injuries to players that actually play the game then Martz had way more injuries to deal with and still is dealing with. Just answer the question.


    Also, we had a chance to win every game except one under Martz.
    Read a little closer we almost lost every game and we suffered our worse blow out of the season under Martz. Vitt beat a 9-3 team and Martz best win was against the 4-8 Cards and they where down to goal to go at the end of the game. Luckly Arch was healthy then and came up with a key sack. Vitt may have been better also if he had Bulger healthy for a full game. He only had him healthy for 1 of the 7 games Vitt coached. Look at the post Vitt had more people out then Martz ever did and when we played Seattle the first time Seattle was without both of their WRs and that was at home in the dome. I was at the game.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -12-11-2005 at 02:35 AM.

  4. #4
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    So much for not starting another thread about the head coaching situation this season. LOL

    To answer the question, I think it's about a push. Vitt's win over Jacksonville at home was impressive, even though I think Jacksonville isn't as strong as their record indicates, but it's countered pretty well by a home loss to the Cardinals. Martz's team lost an embarassing game to the Whiners to open the season, but the other two losses were to two of the best teams in the NFC.

    Really, we could twist the situation and scenarios back and forth a number of ways. But the bottom line is both coaches have had their team showing flashes at times while breaking our hearts the next week.
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  5. #5
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    Its a fair question you just don't like it. Vitt had far more injuries to players that actually play the game then Martz had way more injuries to deal with and still is dealing with. Just answer the question.

    It's not fair because Martz has suffered from an illness all season that prevented him from every truly having his head in the game. Although Vitt did have more players out, he was able to focus solely on football, Martz was never able to do this.



    Read a little closer we almost lost every game and we suffered our worse blow out of the season under Martz. Vitt beat a 9-3 team and Martz best win was against the 4-8 Cards and they where down to goal to go at the end of the game. Luckly Arch was healthy then and came up with a key sack. Vitt may have been better also if he had Bulger healthy for a full game. He only had him healthy for 1 of the 7 games Vitt coached. Look at the post Vitt had more people out then Martz ever did and when we played Seattle the first time Seattle was without both of their WRs and that was at home in the dome. I was at the game.

    Let's look at it this way. Vitt lost to Arizona and nearly lost to the Saints and the Texans. Those are three of the worst teams in the NFL. Martz lost to the Niners, Giants and the Seahawks. We came a fumble away from beating the Hawks and Steven Jackson played in the Giants game pretty banged up.
    I dont even really see the point of this thread. This is almost as pointless as the Kurt Warner threads. Martz wont be back. Vitt wont be HC. There's no point in a debate between which of the two are better. Because most likely, at the end of the season they will both be unemployed for a little while.
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  6. #6
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    Martz
    Rams Points: 128 or 25.6 ppg

    Vitt
    Rams Points: 170 or 24.3 ppg (Was 26.8 before last game)
    This is what cracks me up most about this thread. The fact that you had to point out that our PPG WAS 26.8 BEFORE the last game under Vitt, just to stick it to Martz. While reality says that the last game counts also so Martz has the better PPG between him and Vitt as it stands right now. None of these stats matter but I just find it funny.

    Nick's right it is pretty much a push, and neither will be our head coach next year so who cares.
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  7. #7
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    Compare an ill man with an inexperienced man. Neither one could operate to their full potential for exactly those reasons.
    This is comparing apples and oranges, Warner to Bulger, and lawyers to sharks (with apologies to those barristers we have on the site).
    Nick's right it is pretty much a push, and neither will be our head coach next year so who cares.
    Good point.

  8. #8
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    People will say that we need Martz back to win but people often forget he had Bulger and the rest of the team Healthy and he never beat any team over 500 and Vitt did. The point is Martz is not the genius a lot of people make him out to be. He doesn’t walk on water and when something bad happens some people will blame it on the FO our something else. Look at all the injuries listed in this post that Vitt has had to deal with number 1 is having Bulger play the entire game for only 1 of the 8 games he has coached

    Nick I said I would not start another post about the coaches until the season is over well its over for me this is our 2006 Preseason we are witnessing now.

    To everyone blind to any of Martz faults this is a fair comparison seeing how Vitt was handicapped with all the injuries of players that actually play the game on the field.

  9. #9
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    Nick I said I would not start another post about the coaches until the season is over well its over for me this is our 2006 Preseason we are witnessing now.
    AKA, "I don't want to admit that you brought up a good point about something I previously agreed to, so I'm going to try and wiggle out of it with semantics about when the season is really over."

    So not only do you not stick to your word, but when you are reminded of what you said, you try to squirm out of it so you don't have to admit a mistake or error.

    Wow.
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  10. #10
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    HMmmmmmmm.....................I'll leave this alone!.......we need to let everyone on here voice their opinions no matter what!

  11. #11
    CRAZYHORNS's Avatar
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    Let me try to grasp this. You want to judge Martz on the last 5 games he coached ill or not ill. So disregard all he's done as the OC and HC of the Rams. Ummm, hope your boss never judges in these conditions.....

    We have way too many bandwagon fans here. No, I'm not saying you jump on other teams but it's become obvious people expect immediate and big change when things are not going well.

    For example,

    Bulger gets hurt then Martin goes down and FItzpatrick is the next best thing to bread....

    Martz become ill and Vitt wins a couple of games and guess what people are saying. Opps he's lost a few now what....

    Jackson struggles and Faulk looks impressive and now again people jump on the wagon.

    I've learned that on this site people way over react and I'm just glad they do not do this for a living........

  12. #12
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYHORNS
    Let me try to grasp this. You want to judge Martz on the last 5 games he coached ill or not ill. So disregard all he's done as the OC and HC of the Rams. Ummm, hope your boss never judges in these conditions.....
    I have heard people say Vitt sucks and we need Martz back. Well I was doing a simple comparison of the two this year and what I think it shows is that Martz probably would not have done any better this year. Do I think Martz is a better HC then Vitt when you take Martz career into consideration yes I do. Do I think he would have done any better with this team then Vitt No I do not. Vitt went 8 games 7 without Bulger and look at all the injuries that he has had to indure which Martz did not have to go through. Would Martz have done anything different if he was feeling a 100% maybe. But he had the players feeling a 100% and they are the ones playing the game and they almost lost every game under Martz. My point is this is his ****ty team and even the ****ty leader healthy would not have turned around these **** heads.



    Bulger gets hurt then Martin goes down and FItzpatrick is the next best thing to bread....
    You never heard me say anything like this. Who said this can you show me?

    Martz become ill and Vitt wins a couple of games and guess what people are saying. Opps he's lost a few now what....
    You never heard me say anything like this. Who said this can you show me?

    Jackson struggles and Faulk looks impressive and now again people jump on the wagon.
    Jackson leads the NFL in stuffed runs we have a future HOF on the sideline I think a lot of people if they needed to win a game would consider using him for an entire quarter at the very least. I have never said Jackson is not our future but I also don’t agree with the % of carries he gets as opposed to Faulk. Not when you are trying to win games. Now that this season means nothing I don't care any more use Jackson it's just very disappointing that we never used Faulk for an entire quarter all year. Jackson by the way did get our #1 and #2 QB KO by bad blocking.

    I expect nothing from Jackson, Fitz, or Vitt they are all new to their position it takes time and I do not over react. Jackson should not get nearly all the carries just because he was a first round pick. Not with Faulk behind him. Faulk can play a lot more then he has this year. Jackson has a long way to go and yes he needs playing time but not at the expense of costing us games with his play when you have another guy that can get the job done. Jackson is strictly an inside runner Faulk can still go inside or outside they need to use him more when Jackson is failing and he will fail he is still learning.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -12-12-2005 at 09:21 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    i'd choose vitt, only becuase martz has been basically out the whole year and hasnt done much so can't vote for him

  14. #14
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    Re: If you had to pick one who has done better Martz or Vitt this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJackson39
    I dont even really see the point of this thread. This is almost as pointless as the Kurt Warner threads. Martz wont be back. Vitt wont be HC. There's no point in a debate between which of the two are better. Because most likely, at the end of the season they will both be unemployed for a little while.
    I agree there is no way Martz is coming back and I dont if they would even let him!

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