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  1. #16
    MauiRam's Avatar
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Just because the FO says there will be no more negotiations until SJ shows up doesn't mean there won't be .. I would imagine that the negotiatiing parties have exchanged phone numbers by now. If the Rams have made a fair offer to SJ (I have no idea if they have or not), then the ball is in Jackson's agent's court. If they are asking crazy money, then we'll have to go in another direction. What is SJ gonna do? Sit out the season and make no money? The Rams could franchise him next year if push comes to shove. Deep down inside, does Steven really want to remain a Ram? We really have no idea .. There are so many possible factors (ones not aired publicly)that could be in play here, it is hard for us as fans to know what is really going on. If Jackson wants to remain a Ram, this will get done. If not, it could get very ugly ..

    Av made good points about Jackson approaching his prime years, as opposed to someone like Alexander. Hopefully something can be negotiated, but if Eugene Parker is the second coming of Carl Poston, then the Rams shouldn,t hamstring the team (economically) for one player ..


  2. #17
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyRam View Post
    My concern about a lomg term deal the the inability of SJ to play in 16 games, he seems to get nicked up quite a bit and even durimg games, he seems to take himself out after a 10 or more yard run or pass reception.

    I think they may be stuck because of where the franchise is at but other than that 1 great year SJ has been an average NFL back for games played, yards gained and YPC



    The bottom line is this:

    If Chris Long, who has proven absolutely nothing in the NFL is worth 56 million dollars, how much do you think the best player on the team and top 3 at his position in the league is worth?

    To me, there's nothing to negotiate. Pay the man like you paid Bulger and let's move on please.

  3. #18
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Nobody is worth that kind of money, particularly for playing a game.

    That being said, SJ is asking only what might be expected for a player of his caliber and potential and not terribly outside the "going rate".

    I cannot blame him, particularly, for grabbing what he can while he can but the timing stinks.
    RnD

    GO RAMS!!

  4. #19
    Chris58's Avatar
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsanddodgers View Post
    I cannot blame him, particularly, for grabbing what he can while he can but the timing stinks.
    Maybe so, but he's still under contract. He should be honoring it. Others have said it already: get in camp, you're signed for this year.

  5. #20
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsanddodgers View Post
    Nobody is worth that kind of money, particularly for playing a game.
    Well, it depends. If you compare playing football for NFL $ to what normal people have to do to make a normal living, then of course you are correct.

    But, in the NFL economy, a star player is worth a lot. How much money from #39 jerseys do the Rams make? How many more tickets will they sell with him on the field? If he leads them to the playoffs, how much more money is that to the team? If the success he brings means more national TV games next year, how much is that worth?

    In the end, paying star players is the cost of doing business in this league. Nothing more, nothing less.

  6. #21
    Chris58's Avatar
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Well, it depends. If you compare playing football for NFL $ to what normal people have to do to make a normal living, then of course you are correct.

    But, in the NFL economy, a star player is worth a lot. How much money from #39 jerseys do the Rams make? How many more tickets will they sell with him on the field? If he leads them to the playoffs, how much more money is that to the team? If the success he brings means more national TV games next year, how much is that worth?

    In the end, paying star players is the cost of doing business in this league. Nothing more, nothing less.
    AV, I agree. But all that is made painfully aware to the teams by the players' agents when negotiations are done. The end result are obscene contracts that pay players very handsomely for their services. Long term contracts always look bad to the player after several years of service due to inflation of subsequent contracts to peer players and draft picks.

    Neither teams or players can co-exist without the other, but if you sign the dotted line you need to take responsibility for it, whether you're a player of an NFL franchise.

  7. #22
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Well, it depends. If you compare playing football for NFL $ to what normal people have to do to make a normal living, then of course you are correct.

    But, in the NFL economy, a star player is worth a lot. How much money from #39 jerseys do the Rams make? How many more tickets will they sell with him on the field? If he leads them to the playoffs, how much more money is that to the team? If the success he brings means more national TV games next year, how much is that worth?

    In the end, paying star players is the cost of doing business in this league. Nothing more, nothing less.
    and I believe that is why I followed my first sentence with a second... That being said, SJ is asking only what might be expected for a player of his caliber and potential and not terribly outside the "going rate".


    "The going rate" could be the same as "the cost doing business in this league"?

    I guess this might even mean we agree on the subject. Well, to a point anyway...
    RnD

    GO RAMS!!

  8. #23
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris58 View Post
    Maybe so, but he's still under contract. He should be honoring it. Others have said it already: get in camp, you're signed for this year.

    In a perfect world, it's easy for us to say he should be in camp satisfying our selfish desires. But the reality is, he's doing what any smart player would do in his position. Using his leverage while it's at it's peak.

    He'd be a fool to go out there and blow out a knee, before he gets his pay day.

    Is there anyone here who thinks the Rams would sign him to a big contract next year after major knee surgery or heaven forbid a career ending injury?

    I'm sure he'd have a hard time forgiving himself if that were to happen. So I certainly don't blame him for holding out.

  9. #24
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post

    He'd be a fool to go out there and blow out a knee, before he gets his pay day.

    Is there anyone here who thinks the Rams would sign him to a big contract next year after major knee surgery or heaven forbid a career ending injury?
    So what's the incentive for the team to pay him to a long term extension if he might blow his knee out the first day of camp? All the guaranteed money is out the window. There has to be a balance. Posters here complain about the back end loaded contracts, but there is a reason for it. If all money was guaranteed the owners would go broke picking up salaries on over-the-hill/injured players no longer on the roster.

  10. #25
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    I'm coming down on the side of those who feel he should report to camp and allow his agent and the FO to negotiate in good faith. I certainly believe he's worth the money he'll command and deserves.

    In today's NFL the younger players are painfully aware of the condition retired players often find themselves in. Suffering the body demolition of years of pounding and no pension fund to support their health needs. This is a situation Mike Ditka was fervently campaigning about and SJ is simply making sure he looks out for his future health, especially being a running back with the repeated pounding they endure. Let's hope now that Devin Hester, Parker's other holdout client is now signed that the SJ matter will be top priority.

    Go Rams!

  11. #26
    MauiRam's Avatar
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Just wondering .. is Jackson's holdout based largely on the assumption that if he is not extended this year, then next year he'll be franchised for sure? If the Rams do extend him it would be more guaranteed money up front thereby lessening Steven's injury concerns, as opposed to having to stay healthy and productive to command the "franchise" tag. Is this going to end up being the same scenario as Big O's? As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, if Jackson wants to stay in St Louis, this should get done ok. Hopefully the posturing won't get out of hand, and this will end well .. Can't help but wonder if the Rams would rather franchise him .. Yes this would tick him off, but it might be more advantageous for the Rams financially. Thoughts on this??

  12. #27
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Maybe the way through this would be something like another Eugene Parker client, Devin Hester, did. Jackson shows up in camp, thus allowing negotiations to start back up without the front office losing face, but he doesn't practice, due to a "hamstring injury."

    Parker and the FO do what it takes, give Jackson the big money, and get a contract hammered out, and suddenly Jackson's "hamstring injury" is miraculously healed.

    Everybody's (basically) happy.

  13. #28
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.



    I'm not so sure.

    In fact I am mostly inclined to disagree.

    I do not think one should break the bank with a guy like SJ, or for that matter, any RB in today's NFL.

    As we all witnessed last season the offensive line is key to not only the passing game, but the running game as well. I would venture to guess that even Jackson knows this, as he went down early with a groin injury. I suppose a groin injury can happen to a young and otherwise fit and healthy RB in his prime, although it raises questions in my mind.

    Did the ineffective O-line contribute to the injury?

    Is Jackson injury prone?

    Did Jackson lay down because of a weak offensive line?


    If the answer to any of these questions is "yes" then all the more reason not to have a huge chunk of the teams salary cap tied up into a RB that is virtually as effective as the offensive line.

    We all witnessed the Rams try and juggle the salary cap with the GSOT team and all of it's high priced offensive players.

    Today's NFL is a passing league. Has been for many years. Looking at the past SB winning teams, one needs to go back to the Rams victory in SB34 to find a winning SB team with a superstar RB. Also, when reaching the playoff and SB levels, the successful teams are better at stopping the run.

    Other teams have been quite successful, with the running game, and in winning championships, without having a large portion of their salary cap tied up in the RB position.

    SJ is not worth breaking the bank over, and looking at the recent trends in the NFL, no RB is worth breaking the bank over.

    I'd rather trade Jackson, for a perceived second tier RB (that can be productive in Al's system behind an effective O-line) and future draft picks, than break the bank for him.



  14. #29
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris58 View Post
    So what's the incentive for the team to pay him to a long term extension if he might blow his knee out the first day of camp? All the guaranteed money is out the window. There has to be a balance. Posters here complain about the back end loaded contracts, but there is a reason for it. If all money was guaranteed the owners would go broke picking up salaries on over-the-hill/injured players no longer on the roster.

    As you know if you've followed the sport long enough, the incentive for the team can be summed up in one word. The word "potential". Look no further than Chris Long and all the other rookies who signed major contracts based on nothing more than potential.

    And that is the balance to veteran players being cut or traded whenever a team feels like it to avoid paying them.

    In Jackson's case however, there is even more incentive for the front office because he's already proven. As for injuries, they're just part of the game. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -07-29-2008 at 12:42 AM.

  15. #30
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    Re: If you have to break the bank, SJ's the guy to do it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post


    I'd rather trade Jackson, for a perceived second tier RB (that can be productive in Al's system behind an effective O-line) and future draft picks, than break the bank for him.



    If I were playing Madden '09 that would be a great idea. In fact that's what I do all the time, but I'm not so sure how that would play out in real life. We tried it once with Dickerson and I don't think that played out so well.

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