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  1. #16
    First Call Roger is offline Registered User
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    It is hard to imagine agreeing with 97% of Devaney's moves when he is 7-34 during his tenure here. Many organizations would have already fired him. This is the NFL where things can be turned around relatively quickly with a combination of drafting well (particularly in the mid to late rounds), adding key free agents, making an occasional trade, and developing the players you have.


  2. #17
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by First Call Roger View Post
    It is hard to imagine agreeing with 97% of Devaney's moves when he is 7-34 during his tenure here. Many organizations would have already fired him. This is the NFL where things can be turned around relatively quickly with a combination of drafting well (particularly in the mid to late rounds), adding key free agents, making an occasional trade, and developing the players you have.
    Out of respect for AV I don't want to derail this thread so feel free to start a new thread on this subject and I will respond to all of your points.

  3. #18
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    I agree with Av. Excellent post, I would have repped you but I need to spread it around first.

    I too will root for anyone with the horns on, but that doesn't mean I want them on my team. Spags and Devaney haven't given any indications that they aren't turning the team around. In a world of broadband internet, over night delivery, and on-demand movie rentals, instant gratification seems to be the norm. Team building requires patience. I'm glad Devaney and Spags are willing to stand up and say no to those kinds of players, opting for patience over short-term fixes that might cause long-term problems.

  4. #19
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    I must say, it's nice rooting for a team that shares the same values as you. It just makes you smile when they succeed.

  5. #20
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Why all the hate for TO? For all the talk about him having "character issues" or whatever, the guy has a clean rap sheet. Even though he's supposedly a selfish player, there have been plenty of games where he's only had 1 or 2 catches and not made a peep - because the team won. He generally doesn't pipe up until his team starts losing. The worst thing you could say is that he doesn't demonstrate good sportsmanship, but that same drive is also what makes him competitive and a historically great player.

    Owens really doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the dregs of the NFL.

    I didn't buy him as a quarterback. He's just so stiff, especially when he drops back to pass. Really stiff. He reminds me of Kurt Warner.
    -- Kevan Barlow on Adam Sandler's performance in The Longest Yard

  6. #21
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    I concur, Sir!

    This has been 'my team' for near 45 years and I will always support them.

    I may not always like what some of our players have done off the field and am disappointed with the rare on-field misbehavior, and would not want a miscreant hired, whether or not they'd paid their debt to society' or 'plead to a lesser charge' in exchange for probation, or whatever.

    Their are poor judgment issues and lifestyle issues and even not so astute minds can usually discern the difference.

    Can we use more talent, yes.

    Do we want to fracture the 'for the team' atmosphere which seems to be part of the Rams turnaround just as we get our bearings again? I didn't think so.

    None of us truly expected to be in the position we find ourselves, let alone having lost 5 games by a total of only 10 points.

    I'm looking forward to our future and not ready to compromise it for the right now.

    But then, being a little bit crazy has kept me from going insane!
    RnD

    GO RAMS!!

  7. #22
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by First Call Roger View Post
    It is hard to imagine agreeing with 97% of Devaney's moves when he is 7-34 during his tenure here. Many organizations would have already fired him. This is the NFL where things can be turned around relatively quickly with a combination of drafting well (particularly in the mid to late rounds), adding key free agents, making an occasional trade, and developing the players you have.
    Considering you appear to be quite the arm-chair second guesser, you would think you'd be knowledgable enough to know that Devaney was not making the picks in 2008 ...

  8. #23
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Daddy View Post
    Why all the hate for TO? For all the talk about him having "character issues" or whatever, the guy has a clean rap sheet. Even though he's supposedly a selfish player, there have been plenty of games where he's only had 1 or 2 catches and not made a peep - because the team won. He generally doesn't pipe up until his team starts losing. The worst thing you could say is that he doesn't demonstrate good sportsmanship, but that same drive is also what makes him competitive and a historically great player.

    Owens really doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the dregs of the NFL.
    A sportsman who shows poor sportsmanship...

    Gee, I can't imagine what I don't like about the guy.

  9. #24
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I want it all. I want the 1999 Rams - a team that not only won, but was comprised of seemingly good guys.

    What's wrong with that?
    Because honestly, lightning in that form is very unlikely to strike twice. Players like Bruce and Holt were exceptional back then and even more exceptional now; the culture of football cultivates and rewards "prima donna" behavior in talented wideouts more than ever. If you're waiting for the next Holt or Bruce, you may die of old age before that happens again.

  10. #25
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Because honestly, lightning in that form is very unlikely to strike twice. Players like Bruce and Holt were exceptional back then and even more exceptional now; the culture of football cultivates and rewards "prima donna" behavior in talented wideouts more than ever. If you're waiting for the next Holt or Bruce, you may die of old age before that happens again.
    You're clearly taking me way to literally, rather than getting my basic point about striving to build a winner while staying away from the problem children of the league.

    As for the rewards reaped by Prima Donna WRs, remind me... how many Super Bowl rings do Terrell Owens, Randy Moss and Chad Ochocinquo have?

  11. #26
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    As for the rewards reaped by Prima Donna WRs, remind me... how many Super Bowl rings do Terrell Owens, Randy Moss and Chad Ochocinquo have?
    In reality, or in their fantasy worlds? Reminds me, why are WRs primma donnas? I don't think one has even ever won a league mvp, yet they walk around as if the entire fate of the team rests upon them and them alone. Weird.

  12. #27
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Say what you will about Michael Vick, but as far as I'm concerned he has paid his debt to society, and owes none of us anything.

    From here on out, his life and whatever he makes of it is between him and whatever higher power he believes in.

    It is only because we drafted Sam Bradford, and the fact that Sam appears to be headed for a fine NFL career, that I don't think we need Vick on this team. But certainly not because of his lack of talent or his failure to meet the human standards to play in the NFL again.

    He has managed to silence or at the very least, alter the tone of all the critics who flooded this board less than a year ago. And for that, I am extremely proud of him, both as a player and a human being.

    Keep up the great work Mike and hopefully we'll see you in the playoffs.

  13. #28
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Say what you will about Michael Vick, but as far as I'm concerned he has paid his debt to society, and owes none of us anything.
    Who said he owes me, or anyone else, anything? All I said is that I would not want to be in a position in which I'd have to root for him beause he was wearing the horns. I don't owe him that.

    From here on out, his life and whatever he makes of it is between him and whatever higher power he believes in.
    ...and those he might harm.

    He has managed to silence or at the very least, alter the tone of all the critics who flooded this board less than a year ago. And for that, I am extremely proud of him, both as a player and a human being.
    The criticism of his play in Atlanta was valid. He is playing extremely well right now. Nobody debates that. He does, though, have a lot of weapons that he would not have if he were in St. Louis.

    As for your being "proud" of him, I simply don't get that mindset. It seems like some people are more impressed with those who have fallen, (as a result of their own voluntary misdeeds) and then redeemed themselves, than they are with those who never got in trouble in the first place. I'd rather have the guy with the clean record.

  14. #29
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    I guess this horse isn't quite dead yet...so, here's my opinion (for what it's worth).

    While I find what Michael Vick did abhorent, he has paid his debt to society, AND by all accounts, is remorseful. He does not try to dodge the issues he had, nor does he make excuses. Thus, in my book, he deserves a second chance. This is coming from an avid dog lover who was beyond appalled at the news about Vick when it broke. I wanted the guy to serve the longest sentence allowed by law.

    Vick landed in the perfect place to make his return to the NFL. Had he wound up with the Rams, or any other team without much of a receiving corp, his progression as a QB would probably not have been so dramatic.

    As for T.O., Jackson, and Moss...I am behind the decision to NOT pursue these players at this time. I think that in order for these players to be productive and not disruptive, you must have strong, veteran leadership in the locker room, and a strong sense of team and direction as well. As a team, we are just beginning to build those things in our locker room. The damage one of these guys COULD (I said could) have caused, far out weighs the help they could have provided AT THIS TIME.

    Establish a locker room with character guys, with talent and drive. Then you can take a chance with a guy like Moss, Jackson, or T.O.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

  15. #30
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    Re: I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    As for your being "proud" of him, I simply don't get that mindset. It seems like some people are more impressed with those who have fallen, (as a result of their own voluntary misdeeds) and then redeemed themselves, than they are with those who never got in trouble in the first place. I'd rather have the guy with the clean record.
    Damn good point. The whole redemption story makes people want to root for a guy, but the guy who never put himself in a bad situation in the first place gets forgotten.

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