I'll back whoever wears the horns, but I don't want just anyone wearing them.

[Goldenfleece]

I generally agree with the premise of the thread. There are some guys I'd definitely prefer to root for over others, and I'll shed no tears that we're rooting for Bradford over Vick.

However, I would note that I don't think every guy who has ever done anything wrong deserves to be lumped into the same category. There's a big difference between a guy who gets in trouble for say possession of marijuana and a guy whose entourage has been linked to several shootings outside clubs. There's a difference between Ocho-Cinco's nuttiness and T.O.'s sniping at his quarterbacks. Sentimentally, it's nice to have players you can look up to, but from a tactical perspective, it's also important to consider whether guys are always bringing bad press down on the team, getting suspended, and/or dealing with ongoing legal issues that distract them from their job.

[AvengerRam]

All things being equal, I'd rather have a guy with a clean record too AV.

But my point is, my job is not to condemn him to hell if he doesn't. My job is to help uplift him, not to step on him.

Because of my beliefs, as long as he shows repentence and a willingness to do whatever it takes to overcome the darkest moment of his life, I am obligated to forgive him. And to this point, I am satisfied with his re-dedication to staying free of those dark days and moving on with his life.

I understand and respect that. There's certainly merit in welcoming back the Prodigal Son.

That said, I'd rather offer a 5 year, $50 million contract with $30 million in guaranteed money to the Dutiful Son.

[AvengerRam]

Vick fought dogs, he didn't kill anyone.

Except for the dogs.

All though it is illegal to fight dogs you have to understand his culture, and you can't do that unless you live in the south and you're black or grew up with black people.

You know, I'm tired of that nonsense argument. Michael Vick isn't an idiot. When he was engaging in dog fighting, he was well aware that it was illegal. That's why those activities are "underground," rather than out in the open.

There are plenty of people who grew up as African Americans in the South who didn't end up like Vick. Take, for example, David Garrard. He grew up in Durham, North Carolina, and lost his mother to cancer when he was 14. He has had his own health issues, battling Chrohn's disease, which caused him to lose a foot of his intestines in 2004.

Despite all this, he graduated from college, made it to the pros, won the starting job in Jacksonville, and currently has a 104.9 passer rating.

I'd rather celebrate him than Vick.

[ManofGod]

Ah, Av...always one to stir the pot. I have been on my best behavior for a while now so let's see if I'll lose some rep points for this one.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion AV, but I"d like to share something with you. I come from the same circle that Mike comes from, in our community/society/culture/hood there are some things that you Just do, and for many reasons including the fact that there are often no positive african-american role models for us (other than what we see on t.v. which for many of us is merely fantasy) most of the time we never question the negative behavior we are raised to be involved in; it is merely a way for us to have the basic necessities in life.

With that being said, as a result many of us fight dogs, sell drugs, pimp women, gang bang, etc....you would not like to have lived where I grew up AV, but thank God for Jesus my life was changed (I was given a 2nd chance). I am now a minister, business man, & a clinician working in the mental health sector here. Now as a minister and a clinician I help ppl like Mike change their lives as well & it is not easy work especially when you are dealing w/ past hurts, pains, schemas, etc. that are deep seeded.

So while yes you can be a fan of whomever you want, please be careful of how you stigmatize certain individuals b/c of their past mistakes/choices b/c you don't know there situation and why they made those poor decisions & you can't measure how much a person wants to change.

Instead of tearing down guys like Mike who (although you may not believe so) is a symbol to many individuals, giving them hope that you can come back from hardship better, why not celebrate the fact that he was able to improve? If a player can learn from his mistakes and change his ways, I'd be more than happy to root for them as a Ram!

May YHWH continue to bless you AV!

Except for the dogs.



You know, I'm tired of that nonsense argument. Michael Vick isn't an idiot. When he was engaging in dog fighting, he was well aware that it was illegal. That's why those activities are "underground," rather than out in the open.

There are plenty of people who grew up as African Americans in the South who didn't end up like Vick. Take, for example, David Garrard. He grew up in Durham, North Carolina, and lost his mother to cancer when he was 14. He has had his own health issues, battling Chrohn's disease, which caused him to lose a foot of his intestines in 2004.

Despite all this, he graduated from college, made it to the pros, won the starting job in Jacksonville, and currently has a 104.9 passer rating.

I'd rather celebrate him than Vick.

You can't compare different ppl w/ different personalities, no 2 individuals respond to the same situation/adversity the same.

As you typically do, you've ignored my point and instead jumped on your soapbox to provide us with entirely irrelevant social commentary:



I have not stigmatized anyone. I simply stated that I would rather root for a guy who has walked a path of righteousness, rather than one who has walked the path of redemption.

I celebrate those with the courage, maturity and character to do the right thing throughout their lives. That does not mean I shun those who have not, but who have learned from their mistakes. But, given the choice, I'll take the Isaac Bruce's of the world over the Micheal Vicks.

I didn't' ignore your point, your "point" was what I'd expect from an individual who is out of touch w/ the african-american community, its interesting that I don't remember seeing these types of post from you when guys like Big Ben or Matt Jones are rumored to be on our "radar" in the past; man some of the things you say...now I won't say what it sounds like but I'm sure others can guess which word I'm looking for here......

[RamsInfiniti]

You can't compare different ppl w/ different personalities, no 2 individuals respond to the same situation/adversity the same.

I didn't' ignore your point, your "point" was what I'd expect from an individual who is out of touch w/ the african-american community, its interesting that I don't remember seeing these types of post from you when guys like Big Ben or Matt Jones are rumored to be on our "radar" in the past; now I won't say what it sounds like but I'm sure others can guess which word I'm looking for here......

Not a moderator, but time to close this thread maybe? Considering now we have someone accusing someone of being racist ...

[AvengerRam]

I didn't' ignore your point, your "point" was what I'd expect from an individual who is out of touch w/ the african-american community, its interesting that I don't remember seeing these types of post from you when guys like Big Ben or Matt Jones are rumored to be on our "radar" in the past; man some of the things you say...now I won't say what it sounds like but I'm sure others can guess which word I'm looking for here......

For the record, had the Rams demonstrated any real interest in either of those guys, my response would have consisted of the words "Hell" and "no."

Ultimately, your reponse reveals your racial biases, not mine.

[ManofGod]

For the record, had the Rams demonstrated any real interest in either of those guys, my response would have consisted of the words "Hell" and "no."

Ultimately, your reponse reveals your racial biases, not mine.

Don't give me that crap AV, unless you are somehow working for the Rams organization you wouldn't know which player(s) we are "really interested in" so that is a poor excuse. Just admit it, you are partial to certain....let's say "individuals"
Remember the "Barbie" Carpenter comment....I bet if I had joked on O.J. and his fro I wouldn't have heard a peep out of you <I'm just sayin'>

[AvengerRam]

Don't give me that crap AV, unless you are somehow working for the Rams organization you wouldn't know which player(s) we are "really interested in" so that is a poor excuse. Just admit it, you are partial to certain....let's say "individuals"
Remember the Barbie Carpenter post....I bet if I had joked on O.J. and his fro I wouldn't have heard a peep out of you <I'm just sayin'>

Okay, here's the situation.

Apparently, MOG thinks he has the right to call me a racist simply because I am not African American. I think that is entirely inappropriae.

To ensure objectivity, I'm going to recuse myself from the situation and, instead, allow my fellow Mods decide how best to handle this.

Typically, I would not publicly announce this process. However, in this case, I believe it is important for the rest of the board to see that whatever consequence is visited upon MOG (if any), is NOT an example of a moderator using his power to squelch opposition.

I will leave this thread open for those who wish to comment on the original post in a civil manner. Any additional posts regarding MOG's unfortunate tangent will be deleted.

[ManofGod]

Okay, here's the situation.

Apparently, MOG thinks he has the right to call me a racist simply because I am not African American. I think that is entirely inappropriae.

To ensure objectivity, I'm going to recuse myself from the situation and, instead, allow my fellow Mods decide how best to handle this.

Typically, I would not publicly announce this process. However, in this case, I believe it is important for the rest of the board to see that whatever consequence is visited upon MOG (if any), is NOT an example of a moderator using his power to squelch opposition.

I will leave this thread open for those who wish to comment on the original post in a civil manner. Any additional posts regarding MOG's unfortunate tangent will be deleted.

Again we have a double standard, anytime someone stands up for themselves where AV is concerned (or as I like to call him CR) they are penalized i.e made an example of & that is not fair.

*Oh and for the record I never said (you know that word)

[r8rh8rmike]

The racial element of this discussion needs to stop. Race has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. It's inappropriate to throw accusations at fellow members, and even more so based solely on uninformed personal perception.

If you can't post without making these types of comments, don't post. Any further racial discussions or references to previous posts will be deleted. If you have a problem, you can send me a PM.