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  1. #46
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    No... the negativity will come from the Warnerites who will try to argue in the next few days that Bulger played badly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yours truly
    Come on AR. I really don't think any of the "Warnerites" will be pinning this on Bulger, so no need to call them out, wouldn't you agree? If they do, I will be the first to apologize.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    I'm Disgusted!!!!! And your should be, itís your boy Marc now on a losing streak!!! Well, well, well, Warner is 2-1 and Marc is 1-2 and on a 2 game losing streak. Hmmm whats going on here, could the Warnerites have seen this coming? I know I did, Warner is still the man and Martz well is Martz you got to love him or hate, I just laugh at him. I know TX and Avenger are going to make every excuse it the book for Marc, but he started and we lost, remember wins and loses everything else well that just donít matter.
    Avenger, you were right, I was wrong. Please accept my humble apology.

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #47
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    I may not know much, but I know what to expect from the fans. :bored:

  3. #48
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    ďIím sorry you are rightĒ, for what, the facts. Marc is 1-2 and has lost two in a row. Donít be sorry, its that facts. Keep drinking the water, and believe the spin all you want. Marc is OK at best and the Rams let a two time MVP, the only Ram QB to win a SB go, and we got nothing for him, why because he was done, hurt, he could not hold a football less throw it. He holds the ball to long and the magic was gone. Warner looks like he can still play to me, but he always looked that way even when he was losing games.

    Marc gets all the credit for a comeback against teams we should blow out and he is the man now, he will get the blame much like Warner did when he could not do enough to win, with Martz dropping him back and throwing on every play. Marc had a good game but he did fumbled away a sure score at least a FG. That would have made the different, even Martz said he was disappointed with Marc at half time, due to some big plays Marc missed on.

    Until Marc can hit the deep ball, heís not a real good QB.

    Iím sorry, sorry that we gave up on a great Rams QB.

  4. #49
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    What does any of that have to do with the loss to the Saints?


    Marc threw for 358 yards, no interceptions, converted three first downs on what should have been the game winning drive - which was capped by his 19 yard TD run.

    Granted, his tackling was poor, he couldn't rush the passer worth a lick, and that squib kick of his was atrocious, but then again, I haven't seen Kurt Warner do any of those things either.

    It just goes to show you - there are Ram fans, and there are Warner fans. While these two categories overlap, they are not identical.

  5. #50
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    ďIím sorry you are rightĒ, for what, the facts. Marc is 1-2 and has lost two in a row. Donít be sorry, its that facts.
    No Rambos, that is not a fact. In fact, it is quite inaccurate. I believe it was an assinine argument whenever Warner's "losing streak" was brought up as proof of his demise and equally so when Bulger's "1-2 record" is thrown around. QBs don't win or lose games. They handoff, they attempt passes, and that's about it. Winning and losing games are made up of a lot more than just handing off & attempting passes.

    Truth is, Bulger is handling the QB position better than I anticipated. The problem is several-headed including, but not limited to:

    -poor play-calling
    -poor tackling
    -poor defensive assignment discipline
    -poor special team play in general
    -severe lack of defensive proaction

    Nowhere on that list of "bad stuff" will you find the play of Marc Bulger. Warner's having a great year, and I'm glad. I've always liked him and continue to cheer for him. However, if he were here, we would still be 1-2. There is nothing, I repeat, nothing that Warner would have done differently that would have A) lost the Cards game, B) won the 'cons game, and/or C) won the 'aints game.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  6. #51
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    The only reason Marc's record is even being stated was that it was the main Spearhead to getting rid of Warner. At that time, I was sick and tired of being reminded of 0 for 11 or whatever the number was. It was shoved down our throat all year. So, while no, Bulgar is not the reason we are 1-2, he is getting the same pushed back at him. Is it fair? No. Was it then? Of course not.

    As has been described in several threads, the team as a whole is not playing to it's potential. That started two years ago. With Warner and now with Marc. What is the common denominator between then and now? The coaching staff. This team will be an 8-8 team at best until their is a shake up of the staff.

    Kind of glad I couldn't afford the Sunday ticket this year. It would be too expensive to buy a new TV every week.
    This space for rent...

  7. #52
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by thoey
    The only reason Marc's record is even being stated was that it was the main Spearhead to getting rid of Warner. At that time, I was sick and tired of being reminded of 0 for 11 or whatever the number was. It was shoved down our throat all year. So, while no, Bulgar is not the reason we are 1-2, he is getting the same pushed back at him. Is it fair? No. Was it then? Of course not.
    Sorry, but the analogy simply does not fit.

    So far this year, Marc has a passer rating of 94.7. He is fourth in the league in completion percentage and third in passing yards.

    During Kurt's "losing streak" between 2002-2003, he played in 9 games, started 7, and had a passer rating of 68.7. He had 4 TDs and 12 interceptions (not to mention the fumbles) during that span.

    Warner is playing well now for the Giants. I am happy to see him having success and seemingly enjoying the game again. He deserves it. But make no mistake... he was let go because in 2002 and 2003 he did not play well, and the Rams did not wish to take the chance that he never would again.

    Right now, Kurt is better than he was in 2002-03, but not as good as he was in 1999-2001. Whether he is as good as Marc Bulger is now is debatable and not really important.

    The QB play is not the Rams' problem right now.

    A point I would have hoped I wouldn't have had to make once again.

  8. #53
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    AR, Did you read my whole post or just what you wanted to read? I said it was not Marc's fault we are 1-2. I placed blame on the coaching staff for the whole teams lack of desire to win.

    Maybe KW is doing better now because of the change in environment. Maybe it is because the coaching staff is not leaving him out to get killed. Maybe it is cause they are putting emphasis on protecting him long enough for plays to develop.

    Maybe Marc is not doing better now cause the coaching staff IS leaving him out to be killed. Third and seven and you send five wide deep. No short range targets. No line to block long enough to let plays develop. Same reasons KW was unsuccessful for the last two years.

    As said before, I have nothing against MB. I want him to win so that I forget about the mess that the staff have caused. My problem is with the staff and what they have done with this team in five years. That is what is Disgusting...

    This space for rent...

  9. #54
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    You say its not fair to blame Marc for the losses, true. But in doing so, you attempt to assert that Kurt was not blameworthy for his "losing streak." My point is, that's a weak analogy because Marc has been playing well, while Kurt played poorly when he was losing.

  10. #55
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    What does any of that have to do with the loss to the Saints? I think Marc fumble had something to do with the loss, donít you and him missing guy down field.

    Marc threw for 358 yards, no interceptions, nice number but we lost. Warner had big number on what would be last game, with no running game or protection and we lost and he lost his job.

    It just goes to show you - there are Ram fans, and there are Warner fans. This is your way of saying Iím not a Rams fan. Hmmm, I think I have seen this before as a Rams fan. When we let ED go to the Colts, I have been around and have seen so pretty dumb moves but this one will haunt us for a long tome. Unless you just did not like winning. Right now Iím a bummed out Rams fan that see the writing on the wall. If you think Iím not pull for the Rams and Marc your wrong.


    H
    ďAsinineĒ Donít attack me personally please, some of the points you are making sound like what I was told for the last two years where excuses for Warnerís poor play.

    ďQBs don't win or lose games. They handoff, they attempt passes, and that's about it.Ē Ok Elway and Montana never won games, and Peyton is getting paid big time just to handoff pass. I think you might want to rethink that one. Warner bomb to win the SB did not win that game or have a hugh impact on the out come?


    Nowhere on that list of "bad stuff" will you find the play of Marc Bulger. Yeah I can see that, He had a fumble that cost us points on Sunday and had the ball taken out of his hand for a TD last week. Two picks that went for TD THAT GOT CALLED BACK. Is this not considered bad stuff, in your opinion or is this just an over site by you.

  11. #56
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    ďAsinineĒ
    Thanks for the spell-check. I'll make a note.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    Donít attack me personally please
    No personal attack was intended. If you took it that way, I do apologize. It is the argument that I see as asinine, not the one making the argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    some of the points you are making sound like what I was told for the last two years where excuses for Warnerís poor play.
    Which refers back to the always present "Warner vs. Bulger" debate, of which I don't care to participate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    Ok Elway and Montana never won games
    That's right. They handed off the runners, they attempted to pass to receivers. That's it.
    Warner bomb to win the SB did not win that game or have a hugh impact on the out come?
    But there's a difference between "winning the SB" and "having a huge impact", now isn't there? I would submit that Warner's pass had an impact just as Jones tackle did to end the game.
    I think you might want to rethink that one.
    Fair enough, I'll rethink it.....................Ok, I've rethought it, and QBs still don't win or lose games.
    Yeah I can see that, He had a fumble that cost us points on Sunday and had the ball taken out of his hand for a TD last week. Two picks that went for TD THAT GOT CALLED BACK. Is this not considered bad stuff, in your opinion or is this just an over site by you.
    No, no oversight at all. These are all factors that one would take into account when evaluating the play from various positions. And while these are negatives, I think Bulger has plenty of positives that would give an overall evaluation that would be higher than I expected of him before the season started. These players are human, I don't expect perfection. I do expect them to do their job as well or better than his peers, which Bulger is certainly doing. But even at that, Bulger will never win or lose a single game in his entire career.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #57
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    I don't know why you guys are trying to present a logical argument to counter these claims.

    Rambos criticizes Bulger for his fumble and says there's an oversight being made by not mentioning that turnover, but doesn't admit to his own oversight in not mentioning Bulger's two touchdowns (one passing, one running) and his comeback drive that put us in the lead and in a position to win this game until our weak defense crumbled like a crushed cookie.

    He focuses on Bulger fumbling away a sure score, but doesn't mention the fact that Bulger was off target on perhaps 2-3 throws yesterday, utilized Faulk in the flat almost as if he was reading the criticisms from this board, was a key factor in the Rams' achieving their 25 points on the day without significant run support, and despite losing two games of the Rams' three games, is one of the highest rated QBs in the league.

    He won't tell you that Bulger's completion percentage is near 70% over three games, all this while being tied for the second most sacked QB in three weeks and having made more pass attempts than every professional QB besides Carson Palmer. More than Manning. More than Favre. More than Hasselbeck. More than Green.

    He'll criticize Bulger for his comeback wins against weak teams, but apparently commits another oversight in not even considering the strength of schedule that the quarterbacks he praises might have faced. He criticizes Marc for not being able to hit the deep ball, then praises Warner for his severely underthrown deep pass to Isaac Bruce in the Super Bowl.

    But then he'll fault you for believing the spin and not listening to his "facts."

    You guys shouldn't waste your time with this propoganda. Bulger has made a number of mistakes this season, some costly and some he lucked out on because they were called back; that interception in the flat that was called back against the Falcons was a horrible decision, to name one off the top of my head.

    But for the vast majority of his play, as indicated by his statistics and by watching the actual games, Bulger has done a very good job thus far this season, and it's been without a productive running game, a strong offensive line, or a dangerous defense. He is on the very bottom of the list of those whom we should be disgusted with, and anyone who says differently - at least in a method that isn't making fair criticisms and rather just blanket statements without balance or support - isn't going to get much of a second thought from me. But that's just my two cents.
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  13. #58
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    I think they counted Warners SB loss as a loss in that 0-8, so at this point, Bulger is 1 out of the last FOUR games.

    I flipped to the Giants game periodically and saw Kurt Warner. And when I say I saw Kurt Warner, I mean it was KURT FREAKIN WARNER. Not the remnant and nastalgia of a guy who once took us to the superbowl, but the SAME GUY. Now he's on the Giants and we're headed for a long season.
    Last edited by sbramfan; -09-27-2004 at 01:49 PM.

  14. #59
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by thoey
    AR, Did you read my whole post or just what you wanted to read? I said it was not Marc's fault we are 1-2. I placed blame on the coaching staff for the whole teams lack of desire to win.

    Maybe KW is doing better now because of the change in environment. Maybe it is because the coaching staff is not leaving him out to get killed. Maybe it is cause they are putting emphasis on protecting him long enough for plays to develop.

    Maybe Marc is not doing better now cause the coaching staff IS leaving him out to be killed. Third and seven and you send five wide deep. No short range targets. No line to block long enough to let plays develop. Same reasons KW was unsuccessful for the last two years.

    As said before, I have nothing against MB. I want him to win so that I forget about the mess that the staff have caused. My problem is with the staff and what they have done with this team in five years. That is what is Disgusting...

    Hey he's an attourney he gets paid to argue! :tongue: .......lol...j/k.........but, Av i think that everyone is just trying to prove their point about the Qb problem in a whole here! You're taking up for MB just as we haven taken up for KW ! Only thing is their are quite of few of us on here that liked and still like both qb's! We are talking about the fairness of the matter! Everyone put the blame on KW so why not have MB take the same kind of heat? whether it be fair or not!.................answer as follows(it's not for either qb)

  15. #60
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    Re: I'm Disgusted!!!!!

    I don't want to participate in the Warner/Bulger debate, both are good QBs, Warner was a Ram, (so was Namath....) and Bulger is a Ram. Both have had unbelieveable success: both have suffered thru humiliating defeat.
    For those of you wishing to further the debate, ask yourselves this: Do you honestly believe that if Warner was the QB yesterday it would have made one bit of difference?
    The problems right now are NOT QB related. They run deeper. I believe we have some of the most incredible talent in the NFL. Problem is, individually, these guys are great. Together, they cannot mesh. Other than seeing some 'freshmen' mistakes from the less experienced players, I can't really blame them without laying blame on those who are coaching them. Don't get me wrong, I think Martz has done a good job as head coach....just look at the W/L record. I just think he has got the wrong guys in other coaching positions, and can't see the problems.

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