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Thread: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    If and it's still a big if we end up with the pick there are three teams that we could trade with....

    Washington Redskins possibly at the 5th spot...
    Cleveland Browns possibly at the 6th spot...
    Miami Dolphins possibly at the 7th spot...

    I think these are three teams that could work a deal to move up... with the new rookie cap there is more of a chance now then there has been for a deal like this to happen...

    We might be able to move back get a boat load of picks and get Blackmon, it could happen.

    I just don't think the Colts will lose that last one.
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    If and it's still a big if we end up with the pick there are three teams that we could trade with....

    Washington Redskins possibly at the 5th spot...
    Cleveland Browns possibly at the 6th spot...
    Miami Dolphins possibly at the 7th spot...

    I think these are three teams that could work a deal to move up... with the new rookie cap there is more of a chance now then there has been for a deal like this to happen...

    We might be able to move back get a boat load of picks and get Blackmon, it could happen.

    I just don't think the Colts will lose that last one.
    I love the idea of trading w Cleveland. Get their 2 1s this year and some 2s...

    Be Amazing.

  3. #33
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    So are you guys going to be mad when we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow?

  4. #34
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFan_Til_I_Die View Post
    So are you guys going to be mad when we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow?
    In a word.....yes.

    And I couldn't care less who opposes me.

    At this point, there is only the future for the Rams to think about, and that's where I'm at.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -12-24-2011 at 01:50 AM.

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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    Responding to the quote at the bottom because it irritated me so much-

    I read these boards daily and tend to just lurk in the shadows and watch my Rams and their fans grumble. However, this post by HUb was so short sighted and lacking any logic that I felt obligated to chime in.

    HUb uses a bunch of hyperbole to make himself feel better, making Luck supporters sound like insane people.

    But lets not even look at Luck's talent. Lets look at the CONSENSUS OPINION that he is a capable and future franchise QB. Perhaps the best QB prospect since Elway HUb says that "teams betting the farm is MINIMAL AT BEST"

    REALLY?

    Who else falls in to the category of "can't miss"? Who else garnered crazy draft picks because of the HYPE (not even focusing on Luck's IMMENSE talent)?

    How about Ricky Williams, who the Saints traded EVERY PICK IN THEIR DRAFT for? Would you be satisfied with a trade like this?

    How about Vick at number one, who the Chargers got a 1, 2, 3, 5 and Tim Dwight? Those picks only turned in to HALL OF FAMERS, Drew Brees and Tomlinson.

    How about Eli Manning, whose hype was FAR LESS THAN Luck, and additionally had Phillip Rivers, Roethlisberger and JP Losman all sitting right behind him? The Giants did not NEED to trade up for Manning - they could have taken any of these other QBs rated damn near Manning - but THEY DID.

    And what did they trade to move up three spots? TWO FIRST ROUNDERS, A THIRD AND A FIFTH. Mind you, they didn't need to do it at all.

    How about Julio Jones, NOT EVEN THE CONSENSUS best Wide Receiver in the draft? The second best, drop happy WR was aquired for two #1s, one #2, one #4, and one #5.

    Of course, according to HUb, the likelihood of somebody trading anything to acquire the hands down, highest rated player in the past twenty years are "minimal at best".

    All of these scenarios are off the top of my head, and I'm not even typing about the Jets trading the farm for Dwayne Robertson or whatever his name was, among others.

    TAKE ALL OF THESE SCENARIOS into consideration, and you still aren't factoring in that Luck would get paid ONE THIRD of what Bradford gets, Vick got, Williams got, or any other previous top 5 pick. The MONETARY risk is SO LOW - LOWER THAN IT EVER HAS BEEN.

    So, now that I'm done with my irritable rant, I would suggest that before you start ranting opinions based on zero substance that you check your facts and apply a little logic.

    And there is my post for the year. Merry Christmas.








    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Really? Multiple teams willing to trade into the #1 spot? Because that has happened exactly one time in the past 13 years.

    But, HUb, you don't understand....Luck is different. He's once-in-a-lifetime. He'll be a 2-time All Pro by the end of his rookie year. He's going to pass for 2,000 yards in his first game. The team that drafts him are guaranteed to win at least 8 games because the opposing team will be too afraid to show up. His tears cure cancer. He invented the internet. Etc., etc., etc........

    No, Luck is no different. Listen closely: Andrew Luck is exactly the same as Sam Bradford, Matt Stafford, JaMarcus Russell, Alex Smith, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, David Carr, Michael Vick, Tim Couch, Peyton Manning, Drew Bledsoe, Jeff George, Troy Aikman, Vinny Testaverde, etc.....

    Which is to say, he's the top QB in a draft class. Maybe he makes it, maybe he doesn't. NFL executives understand this concept; and the chances that any NFL team (much less multiple teams) sells the farm to the Rams to draft Luck is minimal at best.

    Losing is never good.

  6. #36
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    You know what's ironic to me is that we seem to have this discussion every year.

    And why is that? Because we suck every year that's why. We need help in the worst way.

    And there is no better way to make this team better, than to get some better players.

    How do we get those players? Through the draft and free agency.

    Obviously we've been one of the worst drafting teams in the league for a decade now. Perhaps our incompetent front office needs a little help making the right choices.

    What better way to help them than by gift wrapping them the very first pick if we can.

    So what, we have to lose in order to achieve it, in all likelihood that's what's gonna happen anyway. Why? Because we suck.

    We need help, in the way of a masterful trade that would net us an unprecidented opportunity to have the best draft in Rams' history. A draft that no one would soon forget. That is the start of what is needed for this team.

    Who would care that we beat the Steelers in a game that means absolutely nothing for us? Not me, because I know it would be nothing but fools gold anyway. Just like our win over the Saints earlier this year.

    I wonder how we'd fare against a Saints team focused on a first round bye. My guess is not so well.

    So what would be the point of the Rams winning a game where they stand to lose more than they gain?

    It would be senseless.

    If you're gonna win, how about doing it when you stand to gain something. Like in the first half of the season when the playoffs are still a possibility. Is that too much to ask? Apparently so.

    I know there are several of you who think winning is the only option. And there's certainly something to be said for that.

    But for me, if it means losing out on an opportunity to turn this franchise around with one swing, I can't get with that program. And that's all I've got to say about that.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    I realize losing out, is unacceptable for any professional sports team, to even consider. I think we can all agree on this.?
    I also think how the Rams have fared in their recent draft history, is totally irrelevant to our future drafting prowess. Especially with a new stable of football men coming into Rams park.?
    I'd obviously prefer it, if the Rams did win their last two. But it still wouldn't change the fact, the Rams roster IS the worst in the league, and is in dire need of quality selections in the upcoming drafts.?
    Last edited by GROUND DOG 39; -12-24-2011 at 11:58 AM.

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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    You know what's ironic to me is that we seem to have this discussion every year.

    And why is that? Because we suck every year that's why. We need help in the worst way.

    And there is no better way to make this team better, than to get some better players.

    How do we get those players? Through the draft and free agency.

    Obviously we've been one of the worst drafting teams in the league for a decade now. Perhaps our incompetent front office needs a little help making the right choices.
    Nahhh...it's simply because of injuries,a shortened off-season, and also due to the moon's orbit, only the STL Rams were affected by this. There is certainly NOT a skill/talent issue!

    So what, we have to lose in order to achieve it, in all likelihood that's what's gonna happen anyway. Why? Because we suck.
    I don't expect the Rams to tank it the last two games. I expect them to play to their standard of 2011 and lose no matter what kind of effort is given.

    You left out that how terrible drafting and awful contracts given to FA's that has been done by Devaney leaves the successor in a salary cap hole and also with no depth whatsoever. Devaney inherited that major problem himself, but he's not going to depart leaving the Rams in much better shape than when he arrived. He's had 4 years and has drafted poorly to go along with leaving the Rams on the hook for Jason Brown and Jason Smith. Thankfully, his other horrid signings of Jacob Bell and James Butler will be gone so the new GM will have a little room to work with. But you can't debate his drafting and the big hole that has been left by having no depth and wasted pick after wasted pick.

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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFan_Til_I_Die View Post
    So are you guys going to be mad when we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow?

    I will be pulling for the Rams to win for sure as I assume most will do. We think we have some control of the outcome but we don't. I will watch the game and hope to see a team playing hard and guys that are on the team will show up.

  10. #40
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    Quote Originally Posted by peramour
    HUb uses a bunch of hyperbole to make himself feel better, making Luck supporters sound like insane people.
    You're right. Luck isn't over-hyped at all. Luck supporters always speak with perspective.
    Quote Originally Posted by peramour, referring to Luck
    the hands down, highest rated player in the past twenty years
    Whatever was I thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by peramour
    However, this post by HUb was so short sighted and lacking any logic
    I hate that you were so irritated by my post. I'll reiterate to give you another shot at comprehension:

    Luck is just another QB. Every year the top QB draws comparisons as the best QB since (fill in name of HOF QB). And rarely does any team give up a bunch of picks to go get that individual with the #1 pick. Pretty simple really. Unless you would like to argue that Luck is in fact the best in the past 20 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by peramour
    Luck would get paid ONE THIRD of what Bradford gets, Vick got, Williams got, or any other previous top 5 pick. The MONETARY risk is SO LOW - LOWER THAN IT EVER HAS BEEN.
    Interesting. Let's see if that statement holds up.

    ---Bradford = 6 years, 78M (50M guar.) = $8.3M guar. / year
    ---Cam Newton w/ rookie scale = 4 years, $22M (all guar.) = $5.5M guar. / year
    ---est. 2012 #1 pick = 4 years, $24M (all guar.) = $6M guar. / year
    ---Vick = 6 years, 62M (15.3M guar.) = $2.55M guar. / year
    ---Williams (the infamous "Master P" contract) = 7 years, 78M (11M guar.) = $1.6M guar. / year

    So yes, even under the new rookie scale, the #1 pick will be a huge gamble to whatever team goes after him. Maybe we'll get lucky and some team will hire Mike Ditka, and Luck will hire Master P.

    Sorry, but your assertion just doesn't hold.

    But on the brighter side, today we have Rams football. Go Rams! Or so as not to exclude you folks that want Luck, go Steelers!
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  11. #41
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    I don't, never have, and NEVER WILL hope my team loses. Regardless of how green the grass is on the other side.
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    RnD

    GO RAMS!!

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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    Yea, HUb. Just like your assertion that if we get the #1 "we'll just be paying more for Kalil or Blackmon", like you said earlier in this post. Did it ever occur to you that we could trade back 2-3 picks, get 2 more first rounders, and still take them? Why can you not wrap your head around this, that we can use LOGIC and BUSINESS to get the player we want and still leverage the pick?

    Do you realize what happens if we get the number one? WE DONT DRAFT LUCK, get 3-4 First Round Picks, and draft Kalil, Blackmon, or whoever a few picks down. Your posts lack such little regard to any common sense or business mindedness it makes me want to throw up.

    It isn't just me homey, its every analyst, every team, every everybody saying Luck is that good. And as a GM of a football team, if I can get that talent, I trade a lot for it. Which somebody will do if the Colts dont get the number one spot and choose to do it themselves.

    You ignored ALL THE FACTS of teams trading up tons of picks (even last year with Julio Jones) so I didn't even want to respond to you, but since you focused entirely on the "fluff" or opinions of the post, I'll ask you to PLEASE tell me why Andrew Luck is different than Julio Jones, Vick, Manning, Ricky Williams, Dwayne Robertson, and whoever else. Why, as you say, is the prospect minimal? Last year, with the first rookie cap in place, we saw Julio Jones and somebody "bet the farm on him". Why is LUCK "minimal at best". Please use facts, as your last post lacked them entirely. :-)

    Lets forget that the Panthers were READY TO TAKE HIM #1 overall instead of Cam Newton, AJ Green, and everybody else. When Luck, the CONSENSUS number one dropped out, Panthers had to figure out who it would be.

    Anyway, looking forward to reviewing your solid assessment of why a team would not trade to get the best player in forever, even though its happened in the top 10 picks every year for, well, forever.

    Cheers and Merry Christmas. I might come across crass, and we differ on opinions clearly, but I mean no disrespect. Hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday.

  13. #43
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    Merry Christmas everyone and I do believe Luck is a good idea, if you recall Indy had captain comeback Jim Harbaugh and were one catch away from the superbowl, yet a season later took Manning , I dont think the Rams should pass on the next possible Manning because they have their captain comeback, who doesnt lead comebacks,and is a season away from his "good"year , Draft Luck and let him sit, if Bradford works out trade Luck ,if he doesnt trade Bradford, either way its a win. But pass on Luck and watch whoever gets him move on while we waddle if Bradford keeps regressing.Then the team will deserve what it has coming if it continues to make bad decisions. They have a lot of needs true but if you look at every great team they all have one thing in common, a great Qb, not average , which is what Bradford is becoming. Give him one more season but get Luck in case it doesn't pan out, leadership needs to be at the helm not head down inaccuracy.

  14. #44
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    Peramour, I'm not sure why you're refusing to see this, but I'll go point by point anyway.
    Did it ever occur to you that we could trade back 2-3 picks, get 2 more first rounders, and still take them?
    Fine. If it's that easy, explain who our trade partner would be and why exactly they would be willing to trade their #3 or #4 spot in this draft and 2 additional 1st round picks?
    Why can you not wrap your head around this, that we can use LOGIC and BUSINESS to get the player we want and still leverage the pick?
    Because all the discussion regarding the trade for Luck has been rooted solely in HYPE and nowhere near LOGIC nor BUSINESS.
    Do you realize what happens if we get the number one? WE DONT DRAFT LUCK, get 3-4 First Round Picks, and draft Kalil, Blackmon, or whoever a few picks down
    No, that's not what happens. That's what some fans are HOPING will happen. If we get saddled with that pick, I sure hope you people are right about the willingness of teams to lose their mind over this kid, but I just don't see it.
    Your posts lack such little regard to any common sense or business mindedness it makes me want to throw up.
    Oh, if only that were true.
    It isn't just me homey, its every analyst, every team, every everybody saying Luck is that good. And as a GM of a football team, if I can get that talent, I trade a lot for it. Which somebody will do if the Colts dont get the number one spot and choose to do it themselves.
    Then you will agree that it would be foolish for both the Colts and the Jags to try to win next week. If the Colts win, they will have to pay the ransom to get the rookie All-Pro. If the Jags win, they will have to face wunderkind twice a year. If EVERY team is aware of his all-mighty greatness, then both teams would be fools to do anything but actively try to lose next week's game. Right?
    You ignored ALL THE FACTS of teams trading up tons of picks (even last year with Julio Jones)
    Nonsense. My original post referred to how in frequently teams trade up to the #1 spot. A fact that can not be disputed. Referring to Jones, the Falcons moved up 21 spots, and gave up 1 extra first round pick, a 2nd round pick, and two 4th round picks. That's moving up 21 spots! And you think a team will give upwards of four 1st rounders to move up 2 or 3 spots?
    PLEASE tell me why Andrew Luck is different than Julio Jones, Vick, Manning, Ricky Williams, Dwayne Robertson, and whoever else
    And I will ask how is he different from the hundreds of top-tier prospects who teams select without any trade offer from another team? You ask about 5 instances where a team made a top 10 trade. I offer hundreds where they didn't.
    Lets forget that the Panthers were READY TO TAKE HIM #1 overall instead of Cam Newton, AJ Green, and everybody else. When Luck, the CONSENSUS number one dropped out, Panthers had to figure out who it would be.
    Then we should probably also forget that that's pure speculation. For what it's worth, I agree. But speculation still.
    Anyway, looking forward to reviewing your solid assessment of why a team would not trade to get the best player in forever, even though its happened in the top 10 picks every year for, well, forever.
    Oh well now I see where you've fallen off the tracks. We're not talking about "the best player in forever". We're talking about THIS year's top QB talent. That's all. There would be no reason for me to giving my reasoning why a team would not trade to get the best player in forever, because it's not relevant to the Andrew Luck conversation. But I will admit I'm curious about your comment that a team trades for the best player in forever every year in the top 10 picks. I must ask, if they are the best player in forever, and it happens every year, then wouldn't that actually agree with my argument that he is nothing more than THIS year's best?
    Cheers and Merry Christmas. I might come across crass, and we differ on opinions clearly, but I mean no disrespect. Hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday.
    Indeed; Merry Christmas. People will always differ on opinions when it comes to internet fan boards. It's the nature of the game. It's nothing personal.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  15. #45
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    Re: Indy just won, Rams in contention for 1st pick!

    From Howard Balzer's Twitter yesterday...

    Quote Originally Posted by @HBalzer721
    Hearing from sources that first pick in draft could be worth 6 No. 1 picks in a trade.
    Six is a bit much, but when you consider the Raiders were willing to trade a first and conditional second (potentially a first) mid-season for 32-year-old Carson Palmer, then I don't doubt that teams will be at least willing to talk about trading as much or more for Luck.

    Whether or not such a trade materializes is another story, but I don't doubt teams will be willing to package multiple first round picks to do so if they need a franchise QB and if the other options in this class aren't as appealing.

    And, like it or not, Luck is exceptionally highly regarded, so much more so than your typical "top QB" in any given class. I feel comfortable saying, in my personal opinion, he'd be my highest graded QB of any that have come out in the last decade. Teams are going to desire that, especially now that Barkley is staying in school and especially if RG3 decides to return.

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