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Thread: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    I was looking at last year since your numbers projection was based on last year. In 2013, Rams were 1-5 against the NFC West. Sam was 1-1. He played a horrible game against the Whiners so I was basically saying he needs to show up big time against all teams but especially the WEST foes. Just like he did in 2013.
    Yeah I agree, it would go a long way if he played his best against the west. In that game he played really bad. The stage seemed to be to big and Kap stepped up his game.


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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Fisher was asked on a radio interview...What do you wanna see from Bradford this year that we haven't seen yet?

    If you project his numbers, keep him healthy, they end up being quite impressive. That's what we want. We wanna see him make good decisions, hand the ball off, understand that we've got an outstanding defense, and just win football games. He can certainly do that, so we have no concerns or reservations about that. He'll probably participate in half the OTAs, and good to go 100% for training camp.
    Sound like they will not ask him to do too much. Hand the ball off and understand we have a good defense, don't turn it over. I also heard Fisher on another show says it's back to basics, just line up and run the ball and play good defense.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Sooner fan here,

    Here at OU, over the last 15 years we've had 3 athletes that really made us say "Holy S***!" from day one of their freshman years. One of those was Sam Bradford, and the other two were Adrian Peterson and Blake Griffin. If you go back far enough and ask the right person, you might add Tommie Harris as the 4th person to that list. Expectations were pretty low by Sooner standards when Sam took the helm, but Sam was unbelievable and had people thinking National Championship before we even hit conference play. He was so incredibly good that Texas cheered when he got hurt. I'd like to think that's rare, but then again, Texas fans have no souls, so they probably do that regularly. As a fanbase, we've basically been in mourning since he left. He set the bar so high for QB play here that the next guy couldn't even live up to it despite setting nearly every school passing record.

    Watching nearly every Sooner game, I usually can tell which ones will be superstars in the NFL. I'd brag about it, but it appears that most NFL teams also knew. OU's first rounders have been pretty impressive during the Stoops era. You can see that list here (over the last 10 years, 7 of 8 first round draft picks from OU not named Sam Bradford have gone to at least 2 pro bowls):

    sports_m-footbl_archive_m-footbl-draft-first-rounders - Oklahoma Sooners

    The only player I've been more sure of becoming a superstar (one of the best in the NFL at their position) in the NFL is Adrian Peterson. The only other guys that were even close in my mind were Tommy Harris, Gerald McCoy, Jermaine Gresham, and TRRW (as apposed to the fake Roy Williams that played WR). Gresham is probably the worst player in that group, and he's been to two pro bowls already.

    Do you guys actually think Sam has been given the opportunity to succeed? The fact that this is the best group of WR's by far that Sam has had and it's headlined by Chris Givens leads me to believe otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I love Chris and some of the other guys Sam will be throwing to, but nobody has had worse targets than Sam during his career.

    Anyway, I'll stop rambling now. Sam's a keeper, though. Give him the right guys, and I have no doubt he'll light the league up just like he did at OU.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Also, Sam didn't have durability concerns in college. He got hit against BYU, landed in a bad position, and he had to get surgery on it. That's it. He missed no other time in his three years at OU. These knee and ankle problems didn't happen until he got to St. Louis.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawr View Post
    Also, Sam didn't have durability concerns in college. He got hit against BYU, landed in a bad position, and he had to get surgery on it. That's it. He missed no other time in his three years at OU. These knee and ankle problems didn't happen until he got to St. Louis.
    Injuries happen of course. In SB case, he has not finished three of his last 5 seasons. That obviously needs to change.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
    Joe, I usually agree many of your points and position, but I think you're way off on this one. If you take Bradfords numbers last year and project them for the full year, they would have been far better then average. I would agree that he needs to stay on the field more, but I still believe Sam can be a very good QB, if not elite. I just don't know if the Rams offensive approach will promote an elite QB.
    That's ok that you don't agree with me. Generally I give a player and or coach about three years to make an impact and I haven't really seen too much from Bradford yet.
    "The disappointment of losing is huge!"

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Must be hard to be a Rams fan who has such a low opinion of our QB. If you're right, we probably have a bad season. If you're wrong, you just look silly. Basically, you can't win.
    It is not a low opinion of Sam, I said he was average at best (to this point). And I am not trying to "win " at anything, my opinion is simply that we have an average quarterback that we may end up paying a total of 80 million dollars to that doesn't have "it". I have watched Haden, Ferragamo, Brock, Everett, Banks, Miller, Chandler, Miller, Green for a preseason, Warner, Bulger and now Bradford and all except for Everett pre-phantom sack and Warner, Bradford is closer to the others.
    "The disappointment of losing is huge!"

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    That's ok that you don't agree with me. Generally I give a player and or coach about three years to make an impact and I haven't really seen too much from Bradford yet.

    2009 St. Louis Rams Schedule & Results
    Regular Season
    Date Opponent Result Record Attendance
    09/13/2009 @ Seattle Seahawks L, 28-0 0-1-0 67,610
    09/20/2009 @ Washington Redskins L, 9-7 0-2-0 87,780
    09/27/2009 Green Bay Packers L, 36-17 0-3-0 60,234
    10/04/2009 @ San Francisco ***** L, 35-0 0-4-0 69,732
    10/11/2009 Minnesota Vikings L, 38-10 0-5-0 60,166
    10/18/2009 @ Jacksonville Jaguars L, 23-20 OT 0-6-0 42,088
    10/25/2009 Indianapolis Colts L, 42-6 0-7-0 60,108
    11/01/2009 @ Detroit Lions W, 17-10 1-7-0 40,857
    11/15/2009 New Orleans Saints L, 28-23 1-8-0 59,858
    11/22/2009 Arizona Cardinals L, 21-13 1-9-0 59,839
    11/29/2009 Seattle Seahawks L, 27-17 1-10-0 47,475
    12/06/2009 @ Chicago Bears L, 17-9 1-11-0 61,892
    12/13/2009 @ Tennessee Titans L, 47-7 1-12-0 69,143
    12/20/2009 Houston Texans L, 16-13 1-13-0 46,256
    12/27/2009 @ Arizona Cardinals L, 31-10 1-14-0 62,624
    01/03/2010 San Francisco ***** L, 28-6 1-15-0 47,965


    After Bradford... no new coach, no flipping of the roster, just Sam.
    2010 St. Louis Rams Schedule & Results
    Regular Season
    Date Opponent Result Record Attendance
    09/12/2010 Arizona Cardinals L, 17-13 0-1-0 52,440
    09/19/2010 @ Oakland Raiders L, 16-14 0-2-0 48,396
    09/26/2010 Washington Redskins W, 30-16 1-2-0 52,370
    10/03/2010 Seattle Seahawks W, 20-3 2-2-0 52,326
    10/10/2010 @ Detroit Lions L, 44-6 2-3-0 55,714
    10/17/2010 San Diego Chargers W, 20-17 3-3-0 52,472
    10/24/2010 @ Tampa Bay Buccaneers L, 18-17 3-4-0 42,020
    10/31/2010 Carolina Panthers W, 20-10 4-4-0 52,281
    11/14/2010 @ San Francisco ***** L, 23-20 OT 4-5-0 69,732
    11/21/2010 Atlanta Falcons L, 34-17 4-6-0 53,005
    11/28/2010 @ Denver Broncos W, 36-33 5-6-0 72,736
    12/05/2010 @ Arizona Cardinals W, 19-6 6-6-0 61,874
    12/12/2010 @ New Orleans Saints L, 31-13 6-7-0 70,015
    12/19/2010 Kansas City Chiefs L, 27-13 6-8-0 55,669
    12/26/2010 San Francisco ***** W, 25-17 7-8-0 52,820
    01/02/2011 @ Seattle Seahawks L, 16-6 7-9-0 67,325

    1-15 to 7-9 is a big jump and for the record this team was 2-14 in 2008. The two years prior to Sam they lost 29 games and won just 3! I think Sam made an impact day one.
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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    As of yet Bradford has not made an impact consistently, yes he's had some good games but nothing to make you say WOW, I don't want another QB. We did however say that about Warner and Bulger, Bradford at this point in his career is neither of those. I'm wondering should we ask Martz back, because he's was responsible for their productivity partially.

    One thing for sure this is Bradford's year he has to be productive. No if ands or buts we cannot keep making excuses for an oft injured QB

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by jjigga3000 View Post
    As of yet Bradford has not made an impact consistently, yes he's had some good games but nothing to make you say WOW, I don't want another QB. We did however say that about Warner and Bulger, Bradford at this point in his career is neither of those. I'm wondering should we ask Martz back, because he's was responsible for their productivity partially.

    One thing for sure this is Bradford's year he has to be productive. No if ands or buts we cannot keep making excuses for an oft injured QB
    What kind of impact did Warner make in Green Bay or Bulger in New Orleans? My point is both those QB had a lot of work to do before they broke out with the HOF roster the Rams had in place when the finally got their chance to play.

    We all know Kurt's story but Marc also had some time working on his game. Marc also was on the Atlanta Falcons practice squad and the Rams. Bottom line is Sam may never be as good as either of those players but the guy that coached both Martz, thinks Sam is the real deal. He has done the TV coverage and he always has positive things to say about Sam's abilities.

    Martz talks about Sam and the Rams draft need with Nick Wagoner. 10 min mark.

    Mike Martz Talks Rams and Sam Bradford –Radio Interview | Rams News Now!
    Last edited by Rambos; -06-08-2014 at 01:16 PM.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    I think people see the roster we have and forget just how bad that team Sam lead in 2010 was. Just a quick glance at the 2009 roster I see sixteen people that are still in the NFL five years later. Among those are SJax and Amendola, our kicker and punter Josh Brown and Donnie Jones, the memorable Richie Incognito. Those guys along with Bradley Fletcher are the only ones still in the NFL that are contributing anything at all aside from the Rams we've retained, JL55, Chris Long, Saffold and Ernie Sims were drafted that same year as Sam.

    How easy it seems to be to forget how horrid that 2009 and 2010 Rams rosters were. For Bradford to win 9 games with that team was nothing short of a miracle.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    It is not a low opinion of Sam, I said he was average at best (to this point). And I am not trying to "win " at anything, my opinion is simply that we have an average quarterback that we may end up paying a total of 80 million dollars to that doesn't have "it". I have watched Haden, Ferragamo, Brock, Everett, Banks, Miller, Chandler, Miller, Green for a preseason, Warner, Bulger and now Bradford and all except for Everett pre-phantom sack and Warner, Bradford is closer to the others.
    Actually the “to this point” was absent in your first post.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    I think Bradford is average at best. There are many throws I have seen go before or after the receiver and other plays where I just shake my head and say "what was that?". He is a good guy, but I think he is missing "it". He is BulgerII for the most part and I would have entertained Johnny Football just to get a spark at the QB position. He gets 8 games in my book to complete his 3 year audition, but I'm thinking its time to go shopping for a QB again this year...
    So have I - watching receivers drop balls that would have resulted in first downs; routes that were wrong, balls bouncing off the backs/helmets of receivers who were too green or inattentive to change/adjust their routes in hot read situations; Sam having 2 second or less (sometimes a lot less to throw) and so on and so on.

    I think any on any given day, even the most heralded quarterbacks can appear average or worse. The quarterback who lost the 2014 Super Bowl certainly didn't appear to be a Hall of Fame guy on that day.

    If the Seattle Seahawks played the Super Bowl without left tackle Russell Okung, cornerback and best defensive player Richard Sherman, safety Earl Thomas, defensive end/tackle Michael Bennett, defensive ends Cliff Avril and Chris Clemons and center Max Unger, would they have beat the Broncos?

    That’s essentially what the Broncos had to do as they played without left tackle Ryan Clady, top defensive back Chris Harris, safety Rahim Moore, best pass rusher Von Miller, defensive end/tackle Derek Wolfe, defensive tackle Kevin Vickerson and center Dan Koppen/J.D. Walton.

    Early in Bradford's career it is fair to say that his surrounding cast was far from stellar; I am referring to the offensive side of the ball in particular. The best cast Sam's had in his pro career was last year, but a freak injury halted his season. As others have pointed out Sam's numbers were improving nicely. Extrapolations of his numbers indicate Sam would likely have had his best year had he been able to play a full sixteen games.

    I don't see Sam as average, in large part because of his overall intelligence, and specifically his football acumen. Physically, he has all the tools required to be a successful quarterback at the pro level. Does he have the "It" factor? Aside from the "It" factor being rather elusive when it comes to attempts to define “It,” I know intrinsically what you mean by “It,” and Sam has not demonstrated “It” at the NFL level to date.

    This year Sam will have his best opportunity yet to demonstrate he is capable of leading his team to a winning season. In spite of the fact the Rams chose not to draft a receiver this year, Sam will be surrounded with the most/best talent he’s had as a Ram thus far in his pro career. The laws of average would seem to indicate that there will be improvement from at least some of the young players entering their 2nd and third years respectively, and Austin Pettis his fourth.

    As another poster stated:
    Quote Originally Posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
    Joe, I usually agree many of your points and position, but I think you're way off on this one.
    Joe, I too respect your opinions and points of view, but I think you might be off on this one. Mediocrity without a doubt breeds and feeds frustration, and there likely isn’t one single person on this board who has not experienced a great deal of frustration the last 5 years or so.

    I’ll throw in one more thought: We have never truly had the opportunity of seeing Sam put the hammer down when we’ve had a good opposing team on the ropes. The last Ram quarterback I can remember doing that was Kurt Warner in 1999. Hopefully Sam wins you over this year Joe - then we’ll all be happy!
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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    I think Bradford is average at best. There are many throws I have seen go before or after the receiver and other plays where I just shake my head and say "what was that?".
    I've said that a lot too, but as Maui noted, it was because his receivers dropped the ball, ran the wrong route, or missed the hot read.

    I would ask you this Joe, does an average QB have 14 TD's and 4 INT's after 7 games, and be among the league leaders in nearly all categories? Did you think what he did in the majority of his games last year was average? If you did, I don't get it. IMO, he looked like he had turned the corner before the injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    Injuries happen of course. In SB case, he has not finished three of his last 5 seasons. That obviously needs to change.
    I agree, and see this as a legitimate issue. Sam has to stay healthy in 2014.
    Last edited by r8rh8rmike; -06-08-2014 at 04:53 PM.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    I hope Sam has a good year I'm on the fence about him though. In spite of his projected stats, a lot of his "impressive" numbers were in the second half trying to make comebacks against soft coverage.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Was checking out how the Hawks fans where feeling heading into OTAs
    Unfortunately I don't need to go to a hawks board to find out what they think, since I live and work around enough of them as it is.

    I will tell you right now that the overwhelming majority of them that I know think that they have a dynasty and will repeat



    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Would having Russell Wilson make us the favorite to win the West?
    I suppose it is a waste of time to ask if you are serious with posing this question? You know, as well as the rest of us, that it is a team sport.

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