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Thread: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    I hope Sam has a good year I'm on the fence about him though. In spite of his projected stats, a lot of his "impressive" numbers were in the second half trying to make comebacks against soft coverage.
    I disagree. Of Bradford's seven games, two might have involved soft coverage due to a lopsided score (Dallas, whiners), the other five were competitive. So IMO, most of his impressive numbers can't be brushed aside by your rationale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Horns View Post
    You know, as well as the rest of us, that it is a team sport.
    I'd like to think we all know that.


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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post

    1-15 to 7-9 is a big jump and for the record this team was 2-14 in 2008. The two years prior to Sam they lost 29 games and won just 3! I think Sam made an impact day one.
    I agree he has made an impact, but I still find him average to date. ESPN has him ranked at 24 out of 32 for QB's in the league year 2013, but I know sitting out half the season cost him. To me 2014 is his year to shine, or we just run the heck out of the ball!
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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Horns View Post
    I suppose it is a waste of time to ask if you are serious with posing this question? You know, as well as the rest of us, that it is a team sport.
    Well this is what this question is really about. Have the Rams built a roster equal to the Hawks. If you add Russell are the Rams as good? Not because Russell is going to carry us, because our team is equal to theirs. Some Hawks fan look at our roster and think we are right there, some don't.
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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    MoonJoe's point is a fair one. We can talk about 'what if's" all day: potential, dropped balls, had he not been injured, etc. Bradford has not been what we hoped for consistently over the course of full seasons. It cannot be disputed.

    What most certainly CAN be disputed- and has repeatedly been argued about is whether or not Sam has the ability to put it all together this season and in future seasons. His career and the fate of the Rams rely heavily on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post

    Well this is what this question is really about. Have the Rams built a roster equal to the Hawks. If you add Russell are the Rams as good? Not because Russell is going to carry us, because our team is equal to theirs. Some Hawks fan look at our roster and think we are right there, some don't.
    Starting with the last part first:

    Perhaps I'm missing something because I don't see any good reason why we should concern ourselves with what hawks fans think of the Rams roster?

    As far as the first part:

    To me, it's just nonsense. Your OP asked if having Wilson would make us the favorite to win the west. So if I decide to play along and the Rams suddenly have Wilson, then who do they suddenly have as their QB? After all I will need to know that info in order to speculate on a favorite.

    Now you change the question and ask if the Rams add Wilson to their roster are they as good as the hawks?

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised since this does originate from a hawks board. But now you bring it over here and all you get is six pages of Rams fans arguing about whether Bradford is good enough to lead this team. I imagine hawks fans have to be snickering about that.

    Well if the Rams become a complete team this season, which I think they will, then Bradford is more than good enough to lead.

    I think as Rams fans we are a lot better off to focus on what we have than to speculate on some ridiculous notion from a hawks board.

    If we as Rams fans were to wish for anything that the hawks have it seems to me it should be the support that their fans show for their team at every home game. I'd love to see that in the city of St. Louis

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Horns View Post
    Starting with the last part first:

    Perhaps I'm missing something because I don't see any good reason why we should concern ourselves with what hawks fans think of the Rams roster?

    As far as the first part:

    To me, it's just nonsense. Your OP asked if having Wilson would make us the favorite to win the west. So if I decide to play along and the Rams suddenly have Wilson, then who do they suddenly have as their QB? After all I will need to know that info in order to speculate on a favorite.

    Now you change the question and ask if the Rams add Wilson to their roster are they as good as the hawks?

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised since this does originate from a hawks board. But now you bring it over here and all you get is six pages of Rams fans arguing about whether Bradford is good enough to lead this team. I imagine hawks fans have to be snickering about that.

    Well if the Rams become a complete team this season, which I think they will, then Bradford is more than good enough to lead.

    I think as Rams fans we are a lot better off to focus on what we have than to speculate on some ridiculous notion from a hawks board.

    If we as Rams fans were to wish for anything that the hawks have it seems to me it should be the support that their fans show for their team at every home game. I'd love to see that in the city of St. Louis
    From your response I would think you would careless what the hawk fans thought of this post, but I guess you do. So I guess you put me in my place for wasting your time along with all the other fans here as we wait for some real Rams news. It's the off season man lighten up. It's a hypothetical scenario that's all no harm no foul.
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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Going back to the original question...

    Let's say the following is true:

    The Rams have Wilson as their quarterback
    The Seahawks have an unknown quarterback, equal to Wilson's skillset
    The ***** and Cardinals remain unchanged.

    I don't think we make the playoffs. I would honestly compare Bradford and Wilson fairly equally. Neither one is lighting up the scoreboard, but both occasionally make plays. Wilson is better in the areas of not making mistakes and his running ability. Bradford is partly forced to do too much, partly prone to costly mistakes. I would consider Bradford a better pure pocket passer. Wilson is set up to succeed in Seattle. It's becoming clear we're trying to do something similar in St. Louis.

    That said, the Seahawks and ***** rosters are too much to overcome right now. We need an offense that can push through their defenses. Right now we have a team that can hang with them, but I don't think that's enough. They're too polished to let wins slip away. And we need as many of those wins as we can get to alter the division landscape.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Bradford partly prone to costly mistakes? Like what?

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Bradford partly prone to costly mistakes? Like what?
    Of all the things one could criticize Bradford for, that should be last on the list. Among active QBs (minimum 1,500 career attempts), Sam has the third lowest interception % (behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady).

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Of all the things one could criticize Bradford for, that should be last on the list. Among active QBs (minimum 1,500 career attempts), Sam has the third lowest interception % (behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady).
    Thats what I thought. And the majority of his picks last year bounced off receivers hands!

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Thats what I thought. And the majority of his picks last year bounced off receivers hands!
    All four of hit picks last year were either tipped at the line or bounced off a wr/TE hands. In prior years he certainly had some at the worst possible times but not in 2013.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    "Mistakes" does not simply mean interceptions, guys. Costly mistakes can be a great deal of things, like throwing to the wrong target, checking down when a receiver was open downfield, etc. etc. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that part of Bradford's struggles have come from making mistakes at inopportune times.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by shower beers View Post
    "Mistakes" does not simply mean interceptions, guys. Costly mistakes can be a great deal of things, like throwing to the wrong target, checking down when a receiver was open downfield, etc. etc. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that part of Bradford's struggles have come from making mistakes at inopportune times.
    While that may be true, its difficult to quantify.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    While that may be true, its difficult to quantify.
    Unless you're Pro Football Focus, who has established a metric to quantify a QB's costly mistakes. The QBCMQ (QB Costly Mistake Quotient) takes into effect the number of times the QB made a mistake, then multiplied that percentage by the costli-osity of it, and added in a severe-iferesness factor based on the game situation, and divides by the QB's "it"-nescity to arrive at the QBCMQ.

    Turns out Bradford's QBCMQ is 5. I mean, can you believe it? A 5!

    So there you go.
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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by shower beers View Post
    "Mistakes" does not simply mean interceptions, guys. Costly mistakes can be a great deal of things, like throwing to the wrong target, checking down when a receiver was open downfield, etc. etc. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that part of Bradford's struggles have come from making mistakes at inopportune times.
    For every one of Sam's mistakes, there have been many more that were not. Ram TDs called back because of penalties. Same with first downs that were negated by stupid penalties, or receivers simply dropping a well thrown pass. I don't think anyone here is trying to paint Sam as being flawless. I am sure there are some throws he'd like to have back - same as any quarterback. That said, if I had to choose between Sam and Russell Wilson, my preference would be Sam.

    If the gist here is simply would Wilson make the Rams better, I doubt it. This is a team sport, and offensively our talent pool has been shallow - even dry in a few places. If our offense can come even close to our defensive firepower, we probably won't be questioning Sam's talents/leadership/living up to his #1 overall draft status, etc. There are 10 other guys on the field along with Sam that need to step up their game. I think they will. I don't see any reason to believe otherwise.

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