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Thread: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Oh boy...

    All I said is that if Wilson was our QB, we wouldn't suddenly be that much better. I'm actually agreeing with most everyone here! I guess it was my fault for mentioning that Bradford sometimes makes mistakes in games, which seems to be my own mistake.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Unless you're Pro Football Focus, who has established a metric to quantify a QB's costly mistakes. The QBCMQ (QB Costly Mistake Quotient) takes into effect the number of times the QB made a mistake, then multiplied that percentage by the costli-osity of it, and added in a severe-iferesness factor based on the game situation, and divides by the QB's "it"-nescity to arrive at the QBCMQ.

    Turns out Bradford's QBCMQ is 5. I mean, can you believe it? A 5!

    So there you go.
    He also has a high FDQAFFOSSRLCDORS* number.




    *Fan Dissatisfaction Quotient Arising From First Overall Selection Status and Resulting Large Contract Due to Old Rookie Scale.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -06-11-2014 at 12:53 AM.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by shower beers View Post
    Oh boy...

    All I said is that if Wilson was our QB, we wouldn't suddenly be that much better. I'm actually agreeing with most everyone here! I guess it was my fault for mentioning that Bradford sometimes makes mistakes in games, which seems to be my own mistake.
    Let's be honest here, you chose to make the point that Bradford was "prone to costly mistakes", which is why you got so much pushback. And it didn't help that you failed to provide any specifics to back up your point. As was noted, Bradford does not turn the ball over a lot, and he's a pretty accurate passer, so IMO, your assertion was more perception than reality. And this isn't aimed at you, but I think a lot of people here have a perception of Bradford that is often not supported by facts, for whatever reason.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Let's be honest here, you chose to make the point that Bradford was "prone to costly mistakes", which is why you got so much pushback. And it didn't help that you failed to provide any specifics to back up your point. As was noted, Bradford does not turn the ball over a lot, and he's a pretty accurate passer, so IMO, your assertion was more perception than reality. And this isn't aimed at you, but I think a lot of people here have a perception of Bradford that is often not supported by facts, for whatever reason.
    while there are many ways to "measure" a QB effectiveness.....mine is simple. Won loss record. True, it is a team sport but the QB DOES get more then his fair share of accolades when things go right and criticism when things go wrong. Yes, we have had lack of offensive firepower, a past roster where the lionshare of the players are no longer in NFL, drops, multiple OC, moon sun and stats not aligned etc. End of day, give me more wins then losses. Then I think you see the Bradford dissing subside.
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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Let's be honest here, you chose to make the point that Bradford was "prone to costly mistakes", which is why you got so much pushback. And it didn't help that you failed to provide any specifics to back up your point. As was noted, Bradford does not turn the ball over a lot, and he's a pretty accurate passer, so IMO, your assertion was more perception than reality. And this isn't aimed at you, but I think a lot of people here have a perception of Bradford that is often not supported by facts, for whatever reason.
    I did say part of his criticism comes from the fact that he is prone to costly mistakes, yes. I didn't provide anything to back it up because it was such a small point toward an entirely different overall idea for the post. Who is really here to argue that Sam Bradford doesn't make mistakes that cost the team, be it first downs, drives, turnovers, whatever? Certainly not me. Count me as one of the bigger believers in Bradford around here, but I'm not oblivious to the fact that he's imperfect. Besides that, it's not the point of the thread.

    However this small note was taken, it seems that everyone is keying in on that and it's de-railed the thread enough, so I'll leave it at that and move on.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    while there are many ways to "measure" a QB effectiveness.....mine is simple. Won loss record. True, it is a team sport but the QB DOES get more then his fair share of accolades when things go right and criticism when things go wrong. Yes, we have had lack of offensive firepower, a past roster where the lionshare of the players are no longer in NFL, drops, multiple OC, moon sun and stats not aligned etc. End of day, give me more wins then losses. Then I think you see the Bradford dissing subside.
    Possible but doubtful. Even if he were to lead us to the Super Bowl this year and win it people will still complain that he wasn't doing it from year one. He took a team that went 6-42 in the three years prior to his drafting and had them one game from the playoffs. He's been fully healthy two of his four years here and those two years went 7-9 and 7-8-1 with a chance at .500 in week 17 @seattle. It will never be good enough for some people. He's the whipping boy for some in the Rams fan base. He can do no right in some eyes. He was playing great last year but the defense had issues and the WR didn't know they were expected to catch the ball. But people still say it's hit fault we didn't win those games. I'd love to see him stay healthy because this roster is finally to the point where it can compete. We just need health from him and the OLine and some quality play from the WR/TE's.
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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    while there are many ways to "measure" a QB effectiveness.....mine is simple. Won loss record. True, it is a team sport but the QB DOES get more then his fair share of accolades when things go right and criticism when things go wrong. Yes, we have had lack of offensive firepower, a past roster where the lionshare of the players are no longer in NFL, drops, multiple OC, moon sun and stats not aligned etc. End of day, give me more wins then losses. Then I think you see the Bradford dissing subside.
    Wins and losses are huge, but it takes a team to produce wins and losses. That's just the reality.

    I respect the fact that you state in no uncertain terms that wins and losses are your criteria, but others seem to go out of their way to try and rationalize tearing Bradford down, with unsubstantiated, unsupported
    assumptions.

    The claim is made that he doesn't have a good pocket presence, which might have been true his first few years, but not now. He was solid in the pocket in 2013. People say he has no touch throwing deep, yet he hooked up with Chris Givens to set an NFL rookie record for a receiver with 5 consecutive games with a 50+ yard reception. He supposedly isn't great in the red zone, yet he had a 92 QB rating last year inside the opponents 20. It was said earlier that he makes a lot of mistakes, but last year, before he went down, he was tied for 2nd in the NFL with the fewest INT's, and had a single fumble, one. If anything, Bradford is the victim of mistakes, with a whopping 8% of his passes being dropped in 2013 (including more than a few TD's), and a running game that was ranked 29th when he went down. And finally, people don't seem to think he can lead a comeback, despite the fact that he led a double-digit, 4th quarter comeback win against Arizona in the opener, and followed that up the next week against Atlanta with 21 point second half comeback that just fell short.

    So while I agree more wins would ease some of the Bradford criticisms and change the false perceptions, I'm with Mikey on this, for a lot of people, nothing he does will ever be enough.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Wins and losses are huge, but it takes a team to produce wins and losses. That's just the reality.

    I respect the fact that you state in no uncertain terms that wins and losses are your criteria, but others seem to go out of their way to try and rationalize tearing Bradford down, with unsubstantiated, unsupported
    assumptions.

    The claim is made that he doesn't have a good pocket presence, which might have been true his first few years, but not now. He was solid in the pocket in 2013. People say he has no touch throwing deep, yet he hooked up with Chris Givens to set an NFL rookie record for a receiver with 5 consecutive games with a 50+ yard reception. He supposedly isn't great in the red zone, yet he had a 92 QB rating last year inside the opponents 20. It was said earlier that he makes a lot of mistakes, but last year, before he went down, he was tied for 2nd in the NFL with the fewest INT's, and had a single fumble, one. If anything, Bradford is the victim of mistakes, with a whopping 8% of his passes being dropped in 2013 (including more than a few TD's), and a running game that was ranked 29th when he went down. And finally, people don't seem to think he can lead a comeback, despite the fact that he led a double-digit, 4th quarter comeback win against Arizona in the opener, and followed that up the next week against Atlanta with 21 point second half comeback that just fell short.

    So while I agree more wins would ease some of the Bradford criticisms and change the false perceptions, I'm with Mikey on this, for a lot of people, nothing he does will ever be enough.
    Well, I would offer that winning is the best elixir in sports. look at Wilson....krapernick.......If either of those guys were on a tem with losing records do you think we would hear about them as often as we do?

    I do not care what others think of Bradford. If he never soothes all of the sports fans and so called media out there, so be it. Help get us on the winning side of a W/L record and he is good in my book.

    I believe this is the year we are above .500. And, I surely hope Sam plays GREAT in a Nationally broadcast game! But I am well aware that it may never be good enough for all. So what.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by shower beers View Post
    I did say part of his criticism comes from the fact that he is prone to costly mistakes, yes. I didn't provide anything to back it up because it was such a small point toward an entirely different overall idea for the post. Who is really here to argue that Sam Bradford doesn't make mistakes that cost the team, be it first downs, drives, turnovers, whatever? Certainly not me. Count me as one of the bigger believers in Bradford around here, but I'm not oblivious to the fact that he's imperfect. Besides that, it's not the point of the thread.

    However this small note was taken, it seems that everyone is keying in on that and it's de-railed the thread enough, so I'll leave it at that and move on.
    I respect you as a poster shower beers, and I'm not trying to slam you, we just have a difference of opinion here.

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    Well, I would offer that winning is the best elixir in sports. look at Wilson....krapernick.......If either of those guys were on a tem with losing records do you think we would hear about them as often as we do?

    I do not care what others think of Bradford. If he never soothes all of the sports fans and so called media out there, so be it. Help get us on the winning side of a W/L record and he is good in my book.

    I believe this is the year we are above .500. And, I surely hope Sam plays GREAT in a Nationally broadcast game! But I am well aware that it may never be good enough for all. So what.
    I agree. Sam Bradford is my teams starting QB and I'm confident in his abilities, so I'm good. What others think doesn't really matter, but I'm an opinionated ass who loves to talk anything and everything Rams football, so I'm gonna have my say. Isn't that a big reason why we're all here?

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I respect you as a poster shower beers, and I'm not trying to slam you, we just have a difference of opinion here.



    I agree. Sam Bradford is my teams starting QB and I'm confident in his abilities, so I'm good. What others think doesn't really matter, but I'm an opinionated ass who loves to talk anything and everything Rams football, so I'm gonna have my say. Isn't that a big reason why we're all here?
    Well, you are a straight shooter. I certainly respect that about you Mike.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    .
    So while I agree more wins would ease some of the Bradford criticisms and change the false perceptions, I'm with Mikey on this, for a lot of people, nothing he does will ever be enough.
    This sentence stood out to me, since "for a lot of people, nothing he does will ever be enough" is probably as false a perception as any

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by emuen View Post
    This sentence stood out to me, since "for a lot of people, nothing he does will ever be enough" is probably as false a perception as any
    Probably as false of a perception as people saying Kaepernick, Wilson or even RG3 would have won more games with this team.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by emuen View Post
    This sentence stood out to me, since "for a lot of people, nothing he does will ever be enough" is probably as false a perception as any
    Rams fans have had a love/hate relationship with their QB's for decades, and if these polarized debates on Bradford are any indication, nothing has changed. You're entitled to your opinion, but there is plenty of precedent and Bradford bashing that validates my perceptions that nothing he does will ever be good enough.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I respect you as a poster shower beers, and I'm not trying to slam you, we just have a difference of opinion here.
    Thanks, I appreciate that. I probably should have phrased what I wrote a bit differently too, to downplay the significance of the statement.

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    Re: Interesting conversation over at the Hawks board

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    while there are many ways to "measure" a QB effectiveness.....mine is simple. Won loss record. True, it is a team sport but the QB DOES get more then his fair share of accolades when things go right and criticism when things go wrong. Yes, we have had lack of offensive firepower, a past roster where the lionshare of the players are no longer in NFL, drops, multiple OC, moon sun and stats not aligned etc. End of day, give me more wins then losses. Then I think you see the Bradford dissing subside.
    I tend to agree. Yes, there will be some people who will look to continue being critical of Bradford moving forward, but winning solves a lot of problems. If his numbers are decent, the knowledgeable fan will recognize that and give credit where credit is due. Sam needs to put up respectable passing statistics while leading the team to a winning record. That is the barometer by which QBs are judged and it is not unfair.

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