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  1. #1
    RamsFanSam's Avatar
    RamsFanSam is offline Pro Bowl Ram
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    It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    It's our recievers - including the tight ends and running backs. I don't know if they changed the footballs this year to make them less "sticky", or if the gloves are different, or what. All I know is that last season, with many of the same guys, Sam was firing the ball a heck of a lot faster and it seems like there was more balls that were caught.

    This is kind of a little off the main subject, but I noticed something peculiar...last season, every time Sam threw a pass, you could hear the sonic boom as the ball left his hand. This year, it seems as if the ball is thrown a tiny bit slower...could this be the result of being more comfortable in his second year, or is this due to a concious effort to make the balls more catchable for the recievers?

    OK, back to the main subject...

    Bradford has it in him to be a great QB. Right now, he's good. Dang good. If he had Faulk, Proehl, Holt, and Bruce to throw to, he would make everyone think Kurt Warner had a clone. It is RARE that I praise anyone so much...Avenger can verify this, as he heard me complain about everyone and everything during the Rams/Eagles game. My problem is the recievers. I don't think there are, in all honesty, more than ten current wide recievers in the NFL that are as good as Bruce and/or Holt were back in '99-'04.

    There's not that many that I know of that will be coming up for the draft next April that look like true #1 recievers, either.

    If we were to sign a FA or trade for a current player, the cost may be too high for the return. We don't really have any "good" players that we can afford to trade. No one wants to get rid of Jackson or Long or Bradford or Laurainitis. That means we would have to likely trade multiple players to get a true #1 WR. This may sound OK, getting rid of 2 or 3 of our "lessers" for one good one, but there is the "what if" factor: for instance, what if our "#1" was injured, and we had traded Amendola and DX to get him? We'd be up that famous creek without a propulsion device. Even if we signed a FA, where would the money come from? We'd have to either cut player salaries or just cut players to get there...and trust me, if you are working for someone who cuts your pay and expects the same work out of you, they aren't going to get it. So, there's that negative aspect, too.

    So, that really leaves the draft as the only clear option. I'm one who believes that the Rams should draft according to need IF there is a player worthy of the draft position. In other words, if we need a shutdown corner (and we do) and the best one in the draft is at best a second round player, then we don't draft him until that round. Instead, we look at the best player available in the first round, compare the draftee's position and talents against our needs, and then make a concious decision that is best for the team.

    Since we still have many glaring needs on both sides of the ball, we could EASILY begin by eliminating the spots we DON'T need to fill, such as QB, RB (until 2013), MLB, DE, and so on. The ones we seriously need to fill (in my opinion) are WR, CB, and Safety.

    This season, it looks like we will still win the NFC West, and make the playoffs. I don't expect us to draft first or second overall, I think we will end up drafting somewhere between #6 and #10. Earlier, I pointed out that I don't think there are more than 10 WR's in the NFL as good as Bruce and Holt were. If that is truly the case, that means that there are at least 22 teams who will want a great WR. I'd be willing to bet that some of the teams who DO have a good #1 WR would draft another, even if the one they already have is still young and is locked into a long-term contract. I would have to ask Nick to be sure of the actual number of WR's likely to be first rounders in 2012, but I will use an arbitrary number here just for simplicity. Let's assume there will be three WR's that end up as first round material. If we end up drafting at #8, chances are that one or two of them will be gone by the time we get to pick.

    Now, consider this: even if someone is a first round selection, the chances that they will become an elite player are still less than 50%. Seriously, the WR drafted in round 7 might end up being the next Henry Ellard. You won't know the true payoff from the draft for several years in MOST cases. (Sam is a nice exception!) In addition to having someone with talent, you must also have someone with potential AND the drive to succeed. (Remember Alex Barron?) Another thing that is needed is the right coaching staff. No one can say Bruce was a failure, but what if he was drafted by the Bills or Lions? Or what if he was stuck on a team that had a QB who was even worse than Tony Banks? Bruce would never have fulfilled his destiny.

    So, what are we to do to actually solve the WR problem? To me, the free agent "solution" isn't an answer. At best, it's a very expensive band-aid for a severed limb. The idea of a trade isn't an answer, either...it is only cutting off your nose to spite your face. That leaves the draft as the best solution.

    This means we need to trust the scouts and FO to do what we need to do: trade UP in the next draft - not once, but twice. One time to get a WR with the drive, potential, talent, and likelihood to succeed, and again to find a CB with the same attributes. It might not hurt to trade up a third time to get a safety, too. After all, we could forego drafting 4 or 5 tight ends over the next two years to fill the spots we must fill.

    We have a QB who will one day, if things go right, be considered to be a better QB than Tom Brady. In order for this to happen, he needs recievers who can catch the ball, break out from coverage, make those impossible catches, and know how to run like Faulk did to make the touchdowns. He will also need the offensive line to block for him long enough to make those consistent 85-yard completions.

    Let's hope the draft in April results in the Rams finding the next Henry Ellard.


  2. #2
    mikhal5569's Avatar
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    Re: It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    Don't you think you're getting just a LITTLE ahead of yourself?

  3. #3
    RamsFanSam's Avatar
    RamsFanSam is offline Pro Bowl Ram
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    Re: It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhal5569 View Post
    Don't you think you're getting just a LITTLE ahead of yourself?
    Not really. Scouts are already attending college games, the front office is already looking at the next year's draft needs.

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    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    The sad thing is management HAS ADDRESSED the wide receiver situation. And it still isn't anywhere near where it needs to be. Clayton was a decent acquisition but is still recovering from injury. Alexander has the potential to be an electrifying player but is currently deemed too fragile to get extended playing time in games. Pettis is inactive for the season- a damning indictment of a guy who was drafted to be counted on sooner rather than later. Salas may very well turn into a decent receiver but is not ready to be that player yet and certainly isn't the immediate game-changer we need. Gibson was a cast-off acquired to bolster a horrendous unit a couple of seasons ago, but is now counted on to do a bit more than I think he's capable of providing. Kendricks hasn't settled in yet. And Sims-Walker was signed as a free agent who I think will help.

    We can argue that our receiver situation is poor, but we cannot accurately argue that management has sat on their hands and done nothing. It has been generally stated and accepted that the Rams have had too many other needs and too many necessary pieces elsewhere to justify drafting a "big-time" receiver in the 1st round the past two seasons. We'll see what happens in the future.

    In the meantime, I've said it before- this current crop of guys must step up and do their part. A franchise QB is only as good as his receivers allow him to be.

  5. #5
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
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    Re: It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    I think you guys might be damning this WR corp a bit quickly considering the first game that DX, Gibson, and MSW played together they had 13 catches for 256 yards ....

    This not counting the TD Alexander should have had on the tipped pass or the 75 yard TD Gibson would have had if he aired out the pass that was nearly intercepted by Ross ...

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    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    I think you guys might be damning this WR corp a bit quickly considering the first game that DX, Gibson, and MSW played together they had 13 catches for 256 yards ....

    This not counting the TD Alexander should have had on the tipped pass or the 75 yard TD Gibson would have had if he aired out the pass that was nearly intercepted by Ross ...
    You might be right, Infiniti- last night's loss was not on the receivers, and they played pretty well. They were productive enough and did their part. Game one vs. Philly was a different story. The litmus test will be whether or not this unit can duplicate (or at least come reasonably close to duplicating) last night's effort on a consistent basis.

  7. #7
    Tampa_Ram's Avatar
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    Re: It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    The main thing i see is that we still dont have a true #1 receiver. DX could be if his knee wasnt swiss cheese and was on the field more, but he cant be in the game most offensive plays and this is how it must be to preserve his longevity. hence why he was out a lot vs. the giants.

    Now if we get a true #1 1st round wr, DX/Clayton could both be the #2 in a sort of way, with Clayton or DX being the 3rd when both are in.

    Yes the patriots can put up hella points and move the chains easy with no big name wr. Ive heard this so many times, but guess what, we arnt the patriots. end of story. were the rams. we cant base our production against a team that doesnt need a true #1, well we do, and its shown so very truly . Remember when they did have a true #1 wr in Moss....yea, they lit it up.

    Plenty of playoff caliber teams have true #1 wr's that are either drafted or picked up in FA. Some NFL teams that arnt playoff bound have #1 wr's and need work on other positions. unfortunatly we need a wr and CB and a few other key positions.

    lets look at the last 10 years of wr's taken in the 1st round of the draft.


    Year Player Pick Starts TDs Pro Bowls Wonder's Grade
    2000 Peter Warrick 4 60 18 7
    Plaxico Burress 8 139 55 2
    Travis Taylor 10 90 22 6
    Sylvester Morris 21 14 3 7
    R. J. Soward 29 2 1 7
    2001 David Terrell 8 30 9 6
    Koren Robinson 9 70 16 1 4
    Rod Gardner 15 62 23 7
    Santana Moss 16 105 46 2 3
    Freddie Mitchell 25 17 5 6
    Reggie Wayne 30 128 63 4 1
    2002 D Stallworth 13 60 32 4
    Ashley Lelie 19 59 15 4
    Javon Walker 20 46 31 1 3
    2003 Charles Rogers 2 9 4 7
    Andre Johnson 3 102 42 5 1
    Bryant Johnson 17 67 15 4
    2004 Larry Fitzgerald 3 92 59 5 1
    Roy Williams 7 75 37 1 4
    Reggie Williams 9 53 18 5
    Lee Evans 13 89 39 2
    Michael Clayton 15 56 10 4
    Michael Jenkins 29 55 18 5
    Rashaun Woods 31 0 1 7
    2005 Braylon Edwards 5 69 32 1 2
    Troy Williamson 7 24 4 5
    Mike Williams 10 7 2 7
    Matt Jones 21 15 15 4
    Mark Clayton 22 59 12 4
    Roddy White 27 59 27 2 2
    2006 Santonio Holmes 25 48 20 2
    2007 Calvin Johnson 2 40 21 1
    Ted Ginn 9 35 5 6
    Dwayne Bowe 23 40 16 3
    Robert Meachem 27 10 12 3
    Craig Davis 30 1 1 7
    A Gonzalez 32 12 7 3
    2009 D Heyward-Bey 7 11 1 5
    Michael Crabtree 10 11 2 3
    Jeremy Maclin 19 13 4 3
    Percy Harvin 22 8 6 2
    Hakeem Nicks 29 6 6 3
    Kenny Britt 30 6 3 3
    0.5 4.1


    2010- Demaryius Thomas
    Dez Bryant

    2011-AJ Green
    Julio Jones
    Jon Baldwin


    Those are the last 10 nfl drafted 1st round WR's

    here is my take on them:

    Of the 48 wr's takin in round 1 since 2000, there are 11 that are currently a #1 wr and
    those wr's are(starting from most current):

    AJ Green
    Kenny Britt-3rd year, solid but not specatcular, hasnt had a True Qb to pass to him but still good.
    Hakeem Nicks
    Jeremy Maclin-#1/#2 wr, him and Desean can be either
    Dwayne Bowe
    Calvin Johnson
    Roddy White
    Larry Fitzgerald
    Andre Johnson
    Reggie Wayne- the Isaac Bruce of the Colts as i see it.
    Santana Moss-went from jets to skins, has shown he can be a #1. older but still got it.

    *Julio Jones, Dez Bryant-potential future #1 wr's, more J.Jones then Bryant at this point.
    **If you think i left someone out or added someone who shouldnt be there let me know.

    This shows that picking a wr in the 1st round of the draft has less then a 25% chance of actually being a #1 wr in his career.

    Of course there are a lot of receivers taken in later round that become #1 wr's as well
    usually they show some kind of promise in there first year, or actually lead there team in yards/td etc.

    unfortunatly i dont think we have gotten one of those in our 3rd and 4th rounds of the last draft (Pettis/Salles). i do of course hope they can be big contributers to the team. But they will never be a #1/#2 wr. Salles can be slot, Pettis could #3/#4 wr at best in my eyes, and thats be very nice about him.


    Now im not one who wants to pick up a wr in FA, let that be known, not unless they are young enough and have shown, not for just 1 year, at least 2, that they are a true #1 wr.

    From what it seems, the odds are about the same that a wr taken in FA can come in and be a #1 wr for us as a 1st round wr taken in the draft.

    now here in lies the next situation:

    Taking a wr now in the 1st round of the draft will cost us 1/4 of what it would cost to sign a FA potential #1 wr to a 4-5 year contract.

    In my eyes i rather draft a 1st round wr and have him spend his career with us and grow with Bradford and cost a lot cheaper when aquiring him then spend a truck load of money for a wr who might come in and just be here for the payday and not produce.

    If you guys dont remember, Holt was drafted in the 1st round, Bruce was drafted 33rd overall, basically a 1st in my book. They spent the majority of there careers with the rams, and were among the best in the league. i can only hope that in next years draft we take the chance on a wr in the 1st round, cause in all honesty, we need a #1 wr, the last wr we took in the draft or FA that became a #1 wr was Holt, its about time we got another.

    every pick any team makes in the 1-7 rounds of the draft can be a star or a bust, but we have to risk it in my eyes.

    Blackmon/Jefferys in 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    *Im not condeming our wr's, just stating we do lack a true #1. If we had one our others would be even that much better.
    Last edited by Tampa_Ram; -09-20-2011 at 09:23 PM.


  8. #8
    Tampa_Ram's Avatar
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    Re: It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    oh, and please no floyd lol


  9. #9
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    Whether there's a guy in college you like, or a free agent you hope for, there is no doubt that Sam will not rise to elite status until he gets some receivers who make his job easier for him. When a WR can get open by 5-10 yards, or can fight for and catch a ball when covered close, it makes the QB look better. Right now, who on the Rams is really doing that for Sam on a consistent basis?

  10. #10
    rxb97 is offline Registered User
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    Re: It's not the coaches, it's not Sam...

    Sam might throwing to Ryan Broyles in 2012

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