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  1. #16
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    The last thing we need to rebuild is our corners. Hill, Bartell, and Wade will make a fine trio for many years to come. You can't get a complete analysis on Hill and Wade at this point, because combined, they have about 25 games worth of experience. Hill looks much improved however, and Wade seems to be full of energy and bounces all over the field, even on special teams. Brown looked excellent against the Cards and he probably has 3 good years left. We need a young strong safety, and some depth guys, but other than that, I think we are set at this position for a long long time ...


  2. #17
    laram0's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    Let's not get hasty. We haven't had Hill and Brown on the field at the same time this season yet. Geeeesh!

  3. #18
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    Fakir Brown and Tye Hill are good but not great CB's imo. That's why they breakdown late in the game when offenses realize they can pick on them all day and eventually bust one.
    Maybe they wouldn't "break down" if they'd stop wearing Lenny Walls jersey.
    We will never have a good/great defense untill we get some shutdown corners. PERIOD.
    We will never have shutdown corners until we get pressure from our front 4. PERIOD.
    Tye Hill might have one pick in two seasons.
    Actually 3 picks in 17 total career games.........but who's counting?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  4. #19
    btimsah Guest

    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Maybe they wouldn't "break down" if they'd stop wearing Lenny Walls jersey. We will never have shutdown corners until we get pressure from our front 4. PERIOD. Actually 3 picks in 17 total career games.........but who's counting?
    Okay, now I understand why Ram fans focus so much on the defensive line. In your eyes it's completely up to the defensive front 4 to bring pressure BEFORE our DB's break down in coverage. When really we need both.. We need our DB's and LB's to cover better so we can get some coverage sacks. Right now we rarely do that and as a result end up blitzing. Bad things happen when you blitz with subpar DB's. We've been getting some pressure up front but of course someone inevitably springs open and the QB get's rid of it before a sack. Which, again is why we need better DB's.

    I'm not saying we WANT to rebuild the defensive backfield, I'm saying were lying to ourselves by thinking were good at that position. Again. I allready think Bartell will go nowhere.. Not sure about Wade yet because I havent seen him do anything but tackle after a catch. Fakir Brown is the only guy who makes plays and can be a shutdown corner.. Tye Hill could grow into a good DB and only time will tell, but right now I havent seen anything spectacular. I think his biggest weakness is his lack of size so he has a hardtime breaking up those quick slants.

    But, all of this is just my opinion of where I'd take this team. I did not write it, but I'd also switch to a 3-4. Carriker makes the perfect defensive end for a 3-4 and Little would make an excellent OLB in it. Yeah we'd have to get a nose, or use Ryan but that's fine. It'd make us more versatile and we'd have more LB's we could drop into coverage.

  5. #20
    RAMFANRAIDERHATER's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    We ARE in a rebuilding mode. Rebuilding a defense left in shambles from the MM era.

    Look, the Rams have three MAJOR deficiencies. The offensive line, the defensive line, and the Front Office.
    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

  6. #21
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    It has been said by many of the posts in this thread that the best corners are defenseless unless you have a good pass rush upfront. Hill & Wade could eventually be a great tandem. We need good safties to help them on the inside too.

    The point is we need a scheme with a good DC and some players who thrive within that scheme and we can contend instantly. Our offense, when healthy is among the league's best.

    Go Rams!

  7. #22
    Ram Dragoon's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    Having a Vetran at CB sounds good in principle...rather makes sense. But Defense is a team sport. I don't care whom one puts as CB, when the defensive front can't apply pressure or a consistent threat to opposing offenses. The offense has the adventage in terms of the receiver knows where he is going, the NFL rules tend to favor receivers (no touchie pass 5 yards, no lunging/flying or otherwize seperating a reciever's head from his body, vague no "excessive contact" down field...etc...), and a lot of time the secondary has to cover lots of territory. CB is but one possition, all be it a very vunerable one, that is where SS, and FS are a valuable asset. Still without a solid front even having them and a vetran CB is of little value to a team. GOT TO STOP THE RUN is the most basic of defenses; second, getting to the QB is the other. More to the point a good, not great, offense can always keep a defense guessing and off balance, unless the defense can make them one-dimensionable.

    If its time to rebuild--start with the offensive line. That perhaps is the hardest part in building a team is getting a o-line that functions as a UNIT. Blocking schemes, assignments, situational awareness are hard to corridinate with the o-line. Is great to have on paper, Holts, Bruces (Moss, TO, Smiths) in a 5 wide set. We know they can run routes and MOSTLY catch a ball--yet little good it does if your QB is on the bottem of a pile off DTs, LBs, etc.:x

    Yet for the Rams, another quality reciever, and YES a ball-catching TE helps the line since you have to account for those players on Defense. Having a working tandium Running game yet another. For Blitz Blocking, change of rushing, short and deep pass catching (like M. Faulk). The Rams where never more dangerious when you had Akim, Holt, Bruce, Faulk on the field at the same time because they came at you from any dirrection--sigh.

    I just don't thing Linehan has done enough to help out his o-line with plays and personal. Its mostly been for opposing defenses, contain the run and get to the QB and it has worked. Can't take the AZ game too serious at this point yet as a measuring sick that the offense has found its grove yet--but maybe. See what happens next

  8. #23
    RamJackson39 Guest

    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    Well, speed is important but in certain spots you need size (I think) AS MUCH as you need speed. In particular at corner. If you can find a bigger, physical corner with speed then you can be more physical and run more bump.

    And.. as for this season not being over. Well, you can be positive.

    Watching the Cowboys tonight versus Buffalo told me exactly why were terrible. Dallas had 6 turnovers to Buffalo's 1. Difference? Dallas's defense controlled the game while the Dallas offense slowly got on track. If the Rams have 6 turnovers, it's 31-0 at the half because our DB's break down in coverage.

    Could this defense (with these db's) ever sustain or get stops like that? We got faked last year into thinking our defense was good (early) and eventually the db's fall apart, so we drop in zone to help them. Then our run defense falls apart. That HAPPENS EVERY YEAR and it's happening again although not quite to the same degree.

    It's wierd, but if I came in here and said we need two big run stuffing defensive tackles - everybody would agree. But for some reason nobody seems to realize that besides Fakir (who is just good) we don't have an Anneas Williams, or a Dre' Bly anymore.

    And until we get those type of DB's were gonna have an iffy defense.
    Ronald Bartell is a big, physical corner. Tye Hill is a fast, shifty corner. Big corners are nice but pretty useless when youve got receivers like Steve Smith coming at you.

    Clifton Ryan, Adam Carriker, and Claude Wroten. I like the future in the middle.

    It's not really hard for a defense to control the tempo of a game when playing against a rookie at QB and RB.

    Allow the offensive line time to gel. They'll protect the QB, open more running lanes, and will keep the defense off the field a little while longer. Less three and outs mean fewer opportunities for the opposing team to move the ball.

    The defense has made definite improvements over the past season. We've played a few great RBs, how many of them has gotten over 100 yards rushing? Sure receivers are getting open, but that was also with our top two corners out.

  9. #24
    Ramanator Guest

    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    Tye Hill might have one pick in two seasons. Now he could develop, but right now everybody but Fakir is 'developing". They never develop. Get some veteran shutdown corners please!!

    Wade and Hill don't look like anything special. Or more importantly - They don't actually DO anything special. The big problem we have on defense is we have to help our pathetic corners week in and week out and they give huge big plays. Even if our offense was good, these guys would let us down.

    We will never have a good/great defense untill we get some shutdown corners. PERIOD. We'll always be at our DB's coverage skills because we ALWAYS have to help them. We think Fakir Brown is a great corner. Hell that inofitself says everything.
    How does one judge Hill or Wade at this juncture, a rook and a 2nd year guy, with the current pash rush this team has. It's really no pass rush at all and no one can cover NFL receivers without some pressure on the qb. Have you noticed the time opposing qb's have to pass against us. It ain't the cb's, it's tne pass rush.

  10. #25
    rams_fan81's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    They have a lot of young guys on defense, but they don't do anything. They never pick off a pass. But my main point was that we need solid veteran db's.

    Hagans is a playmaker. Does he play?
    What do you have to go on that tells you he is a playmaker?

  11. #26
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    On the issue of T. Hill I never like that pick. The NFL is ever changing bigger stronger WR, that are very physical. Then we go pick a 5-9 5-10 CB I don't care how fast he is he can not man up to the bigger physical WR. This is not the era of formal Rams CB's like Pat Thomas and Rod Perry who was match with WR that was not very physical.
    :ramlogo:

  12. #27
    renrawtruk is offline Registered User
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    The problem with being a 7-9/8-8 team for 5 years in a row is that you never get a top 5 pick in the draft to improve your team. Getting the 13th pick in every draft only gets you more mediocrity because there's only about 5 guys who are true "difference makers" in each draft. Add to this all our bad scouting to get DT's and LB's and safeties, we have not improved much in the last 4 years and many teams have passed us by with youth, speed, and size.

    All the efforts to "fix" the defense have now left us with issues on the offensive side, and we are again an 8-8 team that is unfortunately having issues and are currently 0-5. We should be 2-3, and will still probably win 6 games the rest of the year, which will only get us a slightly better first round pick, probably the 7th pick or so.

    We're not a complete teardown, more like a remodel where you leave a couple walls standing. Definitely I am in favor of a new offensive coordinator and a receiver to replace Bruce next year (in the Calvin Johnson mold), to compliment Holt and Hagans in the slot. Not big on Bennett. Wished we had kept Curtis. (was it the same money or less for Curtis?)

    Have to admit that I'm not thrilled that we signed Bulger to 65 million and he's hurt. He's so skinny and last year was really the only year he's stayed healthy. Concerned that this could happen every year by the 4th or 5th game.

    As for the D, looks like there is some hope for the future with Carriker and Ryan, so I would like to see us get some help at safety. I'm ok with Haslett.

    We can only go up from here!!

  13. #28
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    #1 I think Brown is still the best corner on this team. I could still probably name ten corners in the league that are better off the top of my head, but the thing is we've used a first day pick on a corner each of the last three years. That is how you rebuild. It takes time.

    #4 You can't make a play if you can't get to the ball. A slow receiver will have trouble getting open, and a slow corner will just get burned (did you see big, slow Lenny Walls in the Dallas game?). Most of the top defensive ends are known for their speed off the edge, not their ability to physically dominate offensive tackles. We could stand to get bigger at linebacker, but that would require finding guys who were not only big but also better players than the ones we have now.
    Last edited by Goldenfleece; -10-10-2007 at 04:53 PM.

  14. #29
    Milan Guest

    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    So you want an amazing shutdown corner who has size as well as speed.

    I'll just go down to one of my four garages, grab my Lamborghini, head on down to St. Louis and tell Linehan to just go ahead and pick one up because there are so many on the market.

  15. #30
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    Re: It's Time To Rebuild.

    you want a vet corner with great size what do you think we tried to do with Lenny Walls( 6-4 193 giant for CB). That has worked out great. Also look at the front four of all the great corners in the league .

    Asante Samuel: Adalius Thomas and all their LB's, Richard Seymore

    Chris McCalister/ Samari Rolle: Terelle Suggs, Trevor Pryce you can see the drop off after Adalius Thomas left.

    Rasheen Mathis: (tops in the league in ints) Marcus Henderson, John Henderson

    Charles Woodson: KGB, Arron Kampman (2nd in sacks last year)


    now look at teams with Dbs who are perceived to be bad.

    Tye Hill/Fakir Brown- Leoanrd Little (not good enough this year)

    Saints Jason David/ Mike McKenzie- Will Smith

    My point is you need a pass rush it is essential in having good dbs. You also need more than 1 viable option because if there bad or if you only have a threat from one side you have nothing. Jason David looked terrible in New Orleans, but looked way better in Indianoplis with Freeney and Mathis. As i have stated many times before this is one of the best years to get a DE. Jared Allen, Terrelle Suggs, Justin Smith, Chris Long (howies kid tops in NCAA in sacks), and my personal favorite Calais Campbell Julius Peppers brother from another mother.


    BTW Champ Bailey is the exception not the rule thats why i excluded him, but he does probably have the best supporting Db group ( Dre Bly, John Lynch, Nick Ferguson)

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