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Thread: J.R. Reed

  1. #16
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    McDonald's fumble has nothing to do with his punt return abilities, that happened during offensive play, and as such cannot be counted against him.

    Its not McDonald's fault if he has to call fair catches either, id rather he do that then try and field it and end up losing the ball.


  2. #17
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Its not McDonald's fault if he has to call fair catches either, id rather he do that then try and field it and end up losing the ball.
    The problem is, he can call for a fair catch but still has to field the ball cleanly to avoid a muff. The only sure way to guarantee no fumbles is to not field the ball altogether, which is not an option. Although McDonald does not look completely confident IMO, he does seem to be progressing to a point where he will be.

    Unless he has a major meltdown, we need to keep things as is.

  3. #18
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFan_Til_I_Die View Post
    It doesn't inspire me to not make a personnel change either.
    It's enough to produce an average that puts the Rams in the top five of punt returning teams. I really don't understand how that's not good enough.
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  4. #19
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    It's enough to produce an average that puts the Rams in the top five of punt returning teams. I really don't understand how that's not good enough.
    Dude chill out already. I know McDonald is a good player. It doesnt't have to be a you're right, I'm wrong thing. We are both right. McDonald and Reed both are promising, young talent. My only point in making this thread was to get people jazzed up about aquiring Reed. You didn't have to go and turn it into some biased, love fest for McDonald. I'd rather have 2 solid guys fighting it out for the PR position, than one guy guaranteed the job no matter what. The spot is McDonald's to lose. If he loses it, I'm glad someone is here to step up and take his place. The last few years we had squat to look forward to on special teams and it's nice now to know that at any moment we could take one to the house and if one guy gets hurt someone as equally talented could step up and take the others place.

    So here's to Reed, McDonald and the Rams gaining some respect back on special teams!

  5. #20
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFan_Til_I_Die View Post
    Dude chill out already.
    Chill out? I wrote two sentences, neither of which were angry or spirited in any way, neither of which made the claim that I was right and you were wrong.

    I would think if anyone needs to chill out, it's the person qualifying the other's position as "some biased, love fest for McDonald." :x


    Quote Originally Posted by RamFan_Til_I_Die View Post
    My only point in making this thread was to get people jazzed up about aquiring Reed.
    What? Your first sentence in this thread was...

    "I know he's new and may not know the ins and outs of the Rams gameplan yet, but JR Reed should be returning both kicks and punts."

    Seems pretty clear to me that you weren't just trying to get people excited about Reed, but were also suggesting a personnel change at the position.
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  6. #21
    bigredman Guest

    Re: J.R. Reed

    God I love you Nick (in a purely heterosexual way). Give em hell! You are the Alley Cat of this board for sure.

    Regarding the earlier comment that punts are riskier than kick off returns, not true. Kick offs expose the returner to more tacklers at full speed and from more directions than a punt. Just a fact undisputed in football coaching circles. Reason being is that on punts, the teams (except for the kicker and returner) are lined up close to one another, and on kick offs the teams are widely separated.
    Last edited by bigredman; -09-27-2006 at 06:37 PM.

  7. #22
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Here's the thing about McDonut. Apparently some of you prefer the devil you know rather than the devil you don't.

    One element to McDoesn't that can be quantified. In both of his prior years of returning punts, he never exceeded 5 yards per return (4.8 in '04 & 4.1 in '05). Extrapolate all you want, factor in whatever other variables you'd like, but history suggests that he was given a chance and hasn't been up to it. There is no reason to believe he has learned any new moves all of a sudden.

    RaiderPlayaHatya and BigRead both touched on the intangibles of returning punts so I don't want to tread on their observations. What I will say is that from my perspective his decision-making process is suspect at best back there.

    At times it appears as if he has plenty of time to catch the punt, gather his peripheral vision back, choose a direction and accelerate to a point - yet he makes a fair catch before the timekeeper even has had time to find the button. At others, he makes a catch in traffic that is a muff waiting to happen and immediately steps backwards as if he thinks he has Barry Sanders-like moves - which he DOESN'T.

    The point of this is that McDonald hasn't been up to the job, isn't up to it, and I'll be happy to eat crow if after three years he discovers his manhood finally. Ligashesky knew he wasn't the person last year otherwise he would have stuck with him then.

    You might as well go to the hospital now, with MickeyDon't back there it's an accident waiting to happen. Book it in the liability column, Dano.

  8. #23
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    Regarding the earlier comment that punts are riskier than kick off returns, not true. Kick offs expose the returner to more tacklers at full speed and from more directions than a punt. Just a fact undisputed in football coaching circles. Reason being is that on punts, the teams (except for the kicker and returner) are lined up close to one another, and on kick offs the teams are widely separated.
    You are absolutely correct BRM that returning kickoffs are riskier in the sense of potential serious injury, but returning punts are generally considered more difficult to handle.

    On a kickoff, because of the balls trajectory you can survey the field to see what's coming and have more time to make decisions after the catch. On a punt, the ball comes almost straight down so you're more or less fielding it blind and once you make the catch, you only have a split second to react to what's coming at you.

    Here are quotes from two return guys:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maurice Morris
    Punts are a lot more difficult to return than kickoffs, said Morris, who returns kickoffs for Seattle. We have time to catch the ball and run down the field, but a punt is high in the air and you've got to look up with guys coming down. It's tough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Jones
    The main difference is that you have more time to see how everything is going to unfold on kickoff return, said Jones. You see the seams open up and the holes close. You can see that each man in front of you is doing what he was supposed to do. On a punt return, you sort of have to trust that your guys will give you room while you catch the ball.

  9. #24
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Really enjoyed reading your commentary, ATOO. Hope you don't mind me riding on your coat tails in seeing someone replace McDonald soon -- or else attending the proverbial Crow Banquet that you also mentioned.

    Maybe Reed is being groomed, as we speak, to become return specialist for both punts and kickoffs while the Mc will be a backup -- not necessarily the backup player. What little I've seen of Reed, he does seem to show and have better instincts, albeit unproven in the production column as of yet.

    McDonald, I don't know. I just haven't been able to feel comfortable with him back there. We'll see after a couple more games.

  10. #25
    bigredman Guest

    Re: J.R. Reed

    r8rh8rmike....I don't know. I agree to what they are saying, but I think we are talking two different things here (the players you quoted and I are). Their ability to survey their best path is diminished during punt returns because of the hang time and shorter length of the kick. In that aspect, its tougher, but I was focusing more on the risk for injury. All in all, it looks like you and I agree.
    Last edited by bigredman; -09-27-2006 at 08:08 PM.

  11. #26
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    r8rh8rmike....I don't know. I agree to what they are saying, but I think we are talking two different things here (or the players you quoted and I are). The potential to break the "big one" is better for punt returns, what the players are eluding to is the ability to make a decision after receiving a kick as opposed to a punt as to which direction they will run. Its been my experience from players I've talked to and players I've played with that they prefer punt returns to kick offs because of the craziness factor during a kickoff return is twofold to that of the punt (waiting for the ball to come down and its crazy flight notwithstanding).
    I'm pretty sure the players I quoted were making the case that punts are more difficult to field than kickoffs as they made points about having to look up with defenders bearing down on them, but as you've stated earlier, players will differ on what they are more comfortable doing. My guess is Dante Hall would much rather return punts than kickoffs.

  12. #27
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    BRM, you make giving a respose pretty tough when you KEEP EDITING YOUR POST!!

  13. #28
    bigredman Guest

    Re: J.R. Reed

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    BRM, you make giving a respose pretty tough when you KEEP EDITING YOUR POST!!
    Awwwww....you figured out my method of confusing my critics! One minute I'm disagreeing with you, then I edit and jump on your side. I know I have a bad habit of that. I'm trying to get better at that, but at this time of day, I'm enjoying my triple Grey Goose martini and what comes out of my fingers doesn't always match what I'm thinking. So I read my post, tell myself "Hey, that's not what I meant (slurring), and I edit once, twice, or three times in a span of five to ten minutes. So what I guess I'm telling everyone, wait a little bit before responding to me. Honest Occifer, I only had a bittle lit to drink wif dinner!

  14. #29
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    Awwwww....you figured out my method of confusing my critics! One minute I'm disagreeing with you, then I edit and jump on your side. I know I have a bad habit of that. I'm trying to get better at that, but at this time of day, I'm enjoying my triple Grey Goose martini and what comes out of my fingers doesn't always match what I'm thinking. So I read my post, tell myself "Hey, that's not what I meant (slurring), and I edit once, twice, or three times in a span of five to ten minutes. So what I guess I'm telling everyone, wait a little bit before responding to me. Honest Occifer, I only had a bittle lit to drink wif dinner!
    Give you more time is right! I was having a T.O. moment with all the changes that were flashing before my eyes.

  15. #30
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    Re: J.R. Reed

    Okay, back to the gist of this thread. Do those of you who advocate change think we should go with Reed, who has never returned a punt in the NFL? Seems a little risky at this point.

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