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  1. #16
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    Hey, how ya doin

    Here are three things to call him:

    1. Better
    2. Than
    3. Dickerson


    Are you serious?? Dickerson is in the HOF. Jackson will NEVER be in the HOF unless he;

    1) Buys a ticket or
    2) Reports to camp, has a great career, and makes me look foolish for questioning him

    I understand Rams fans that have a hatred for Dickerson for what he did by holding out and then leaving, but seriously, there is no way Jax is better than Eric


  2. #17
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    Hey, how ya doin

    Here are three things to call him:

    1. Better
    2. Than
    3. Dickerson



    Oh wow! This conversation just got interesting. Proceed, gentlemen.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #18
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Oh wow! This conversation just got interesting. Proceed, gentlemen.
    yeah, I can't wait to read this....

  4. #19
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    Hey, how ya doin

    Here are three things to call him:

    1. Better
    2. Than
    3. Dickerson


    You obviously never saw Dickerson.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  5. #20
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottD413 View Post
    Are you serious?? Dickerson is in the HOF. Jackson will NEVER be in the HOF unless he;

    1) Buys a ticket or
    2) Reports to camp, has a great career, and makes me look foolish for questioning him

    I understand Rams fans that have a hatred for Dickerson for what he did by holding out and then leaving, but seriously, there is no way Jax is better than Eric
    First of all, I am absolutely serious. Second of all, it is too soon to know whether Jackson will be in the HOf, regardless it has no bearing. And third, you must realize this is strictly opinion. It can not be proven either way. And finally, I have no hatred for Dickerson. I do however wish more Rams fans would give credit to the factors that led to Dickerson's production.

    I wonder if you were even old enough to really remember Dickerson? Whether or not, it seems obvious to me that you never knew of the factors that led to his amazing production.

    Dickerson's production was the by-product of a coaching philosophy and an offensive system. But even more, it was sustained by arguably one of the best offensive lines in NFL history.

    Coming from USC, coach John Robinson was the run first guru of the power I formation. Dickerson, coming out of SMU, was the perfect fit for coach Robinson's power I formation offense. Teamed with Robinson's run first philosophy and an extremely powerful offensive line Dickerson was able to run roughshod over NFL defenses. Running through holes that were frequently large enough to drive a Mack Truck through. With his speed all he needed was a huge hole to get into the secondary and a big gainer was assured. He'd run through smaller holes that the line created - fall forward and have 5 yards to his name for their efforts.

    Dickerson never equaled the production he had with the Rams after leaving. Charles White - who previously had never done a thing in 3 previous NFL seasons - stepped in behind that offensive line and gained close to 1400 yards in 12 starts.

    I generally don't like stats for this type of debate because I feel that it is purely subjective.

    However, let's look at just a few stats between the two for their first four years as Rams:

    Yards from scrimmage:
    ED - 7842
    SJ - 5835

    Rushing Yards:
    ED - 6968
    SJ - 4249

    Receptions:
    ED - 118
    SJ - 190

    Recieving Yards:
    ED - 874
    SJ - 1586

    TOUCHES:
    ED - 1583
    SJ - 1161

    YARDS PER TOUCH:
    ED - 4.95
    SJ - 5.02

    FUMBLES:
    ED - 49
    SJ - 13

    FUMBLES PER TOUCH:
    ED - 1 per 33.6
    SJ - 1 per 89.3

    TDs:
    ED - 57
    SJ - 36


    I challenge you to find one Rams fan, that did indeed see Dickerson play, (and contrary to another post I did see him play), that can honestly say that Jackson has had even half the talent in front of him as Dickerson had.


    Jackson is -

    Better
    Than
    Dickerson


    WELCOME BACK STEVEN JACKSON!!!



  6. #21
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Ferter, how re you my friend. I did see the dick play for years and I would say that if all we did was run now, I think your take on Jackson might be a bit different. these are 2 different O's for sure . But the D just sat and waited for Dick. jackson would not fare as well I'm sure. besides Dick plays to his weight and could knock you on your ass with that straight arm. Jackson doesn't seem to play to his weighht, Meaning unless he has a full head of steam he is probably going down. he seems to miss key holes on some plays also.And having to follow Faulk hasn't been in his favor either. And Jackson falls back quite the way behide Faulk and the Dick IMO.Bulger the same falls below the Warner.Jackson.......I can take him or leave him at this point, But Dickerson and Faulk , I have the great memories of!!!!!!!
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  7. #22
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    The last post by Ferter is one of the best that i have read on this board in the last year. I actually spent some time last night digging around their stats over their first four years but didnt have time to post it all today and bless ferter for posting the stats and presenting such an eloquent and effective argument.

    I am not prepared to go quite as far as ferter and say jackson is BETTER, but he may be right and at the minimum, its a perfectly legitimate debate.

    Dickerson is one of the most overated players in the history of the rams. Great tailback, no question about it. I think his numbers secure him a place in the hall of fame. However, did dickerson look like a hall of famer after he left the rams or just a very good back? Please note the average at best runners that ran for over a thousand yards behind the rams offensive lines of that era after dickerson left. Note that when dickerson was on lousy teams, his numbers were lousy.

    Dickersons fumbling was just terrible. Note the playoff game vs. washington with 150 or so yards rushing and three fumbles that cost us the game. You can not underestimate how fantastic the rams offensive lines of that era were.

    I think dickerson was a terrible blocker and his hands were average at best. As a pure runner, dickerson was hall of fame caliber. As an all around running back, there is no way he is clearly better than jackson and he is not in a class with marshall faulk, who ran, caught and blocked.

    The rams offensive lines of the last couple of years have been just terrible. I think that is clear to all of us and yet people still want to compare jacksons numbers to dickersons numbers. At peak performance, jackson put up numbers just as good as dickerson and he did it with about 1/4 of the fumbles.

    The total yardage numbers are misleading as dickerson started all 16 games as a rookie while jackson started only 3.

    I am not really trying to knock dickerson, only pointing out that jackson is a lot better than people are giving him credit for and dickerson was at least in some part a product of running behind absolutely top notch all pro offensive lines.

    Great post ferter, you deserve major kudos, rep points, and a cash bonus.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  8. #23
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    I do however wish more Rams fans would give credit to the factors that led to Dickerson's production.

    Namely Jackie Slater.

  9. #24
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Its a LOT more than big jackie. What about dennis harrah, kent hill, doug smith and big irv pankey? Harrah in and of himself is one of the all time animals to set foot on an nfl field. You young guys, think about the passion, strength and personality of incognito with about 5 times the talent and an ability to control himself on the field. This was one of the greatest all time offensive lines ever assembled. Dont forget about david hill, who was a MASSIVE floating tackle at the tight end position.

    Its a valid point that the defenses were lined up to stop ED, and we had less weapons at qb and receiver. But its a tribute to the offensive line along with dickerson that no one was able to do so.

    The critical point for me is look at the yardage of guys like charles white and greg bell after dickerson left the team. Look how average backs still ran very successfully behind that line.

    At the end of the day, an offensive line makes a great back a hall of famer, an average guy a very good back, or a great back, just a good back if he doesnt have any blocking at the point of attack.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  10. #25
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Couldn't agree more. Just seems Jackie gets no love these days. The line back then was absolutely insane. Put SJ behind those guys, and ED's record might not be so safe. I raise my glass to them all. Cheers!
    Last edited by Dwight Frye; -08-21-2008 at 09:30 AM.

  11. #26
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    The last post by Ferter is one of the best that i have read on this board in the last year. I actually spent some time last night digging around their stats over their first four years but didnt have time to post it all today and bless ferter for posting the stats and presenting such an eloquent and effective argument.
    Thank you for the kind words, gc. You are a scholar and a gentleman, preceded only by your good looks.

    I'm not prepared to go quite as far as you about that post...lol. I was in a hurry and did not have a lot of time with that post. There are only a few posts that I have made here that I am overly proud of.

    On the eve of Jackson's return I made the claim. On the day of his return I was able to elaborate on that claim and welcome him back. How's that for impecable timing?




  12. #27
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    I only read a few of these post. As one of the poster said it it just a opinion. So here is mines ED is the best pure back I have ever seen. I watch him when he was at SMU and I was dreaming of the possibility of him playing for my rams. My dream came true when we drafted him. I was in college when he was a rookie and was watching the rams play the jets, he took a hand off made a incredible cut and ran a 80 yards td. His numbers speak for it's self. I love SJ he was a steal for the rams and the cowboys was crazy to pass on him but in my mind ED is the best I have ever watch, and I would not take him over any one I have watch over the last 30 years.
    Last edited by eldfan; -08-23-2008 at 11:14 AM.
    :ramlogo:

  13. #28
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    I think some people have forgotten just how good the Rams O line was back in the 80's.
    Slater, Smith, Harrah..... those guys were All-Pro. Just look at the RB's after Dickerson was traded who rushed for 1000 yards; White & Bell.

    ED was great, but IMO Jackson has the potential to be even greater. He has had to work behind a different O-line just about every year.
    JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS


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  14. #29
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Well, well, well. Jackson better than Dickerson huh? Let me first just say that making a claim that "any" back is better than Dickerson after just 4 years is absolutely ridiculous.

    Jackson is a supreme talent for sure, but even he would tell you that he is not even near that class yet.

    Furthermore, for someone to dismiss the fact that one guy happens to be a Hall of Famer and the other not even done with his rookie contract yet, goes to show how ridiculous this arguement is.

    There has never been a Ram RB better than Dickerson. Marshall Faulk is the closest at this point, but in my opinion even he falls short.

    People are quick to downgrade Dickerson because he had such a great offensive line. Well, how about all the weapons Marshall Faulk and Steven Jackson have played with? Dickerson, for the most part, was the only weapon defenses had to prepare for when they lined up against the Rams. Whereas, Steven and Marshall had the benefit of playing in the era of the GSOT. How that is not comparable to Dickersons' great O-Line in some peoples eyes, is beyond me.

    Obviously Marshall nor Jackson have ever been the "sole" focus of a defense. They've both benefited from having two Hall of Fame receivers that always had to be accounted for, as well as a host of 3rd, 4th and sometimes 5th options that teams had to be wary of. That IMHO, easily trumps the great lines ED ran behind because defenses never knew who or what was going to hit'em next.

    With Dickerson, you knew what was coming and you still couldn't stop it. Much more impressive feat in my book.

    So until they produce like ED did under those circumstances (which for Marshall it's too late), Dickerson will remain a cut above.

  15. #30
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post

    People are quick to downgrade Dickerson because he had such a great offensive line. Well, how about all the weapons Marshall Faulk and Steven Jackson have played with? Dickerson, for the most part, was the only weapon defenses had to prepare for when they lined up against the Rams. Whereas, Steven and Marshall had the benefit of playing in the era of the GSOT. How that is not comparable to Dickersons' great O-Line in some peoples eyes, is beyond me.

    Obviously Marshall nor Jackson have ever been the "sole" focus of a defense. They've both benefited from having two Hall of Fame receivers that always had to be accounted for, as well as a host of 3rd, 4th and sometimes 5th options that teams had to be wary of. That IMHO, easily trumps the great lines ED ran behind because defenses never knew who or what was going to hit'em next. .
    Great point on the OL. Trying to knock ED greatness as a back because of his OL is like saying Montana was only great because of Rice. All great players has teammates that help them along the way. ED was the focal point of the Offensive, every team new it every team prepared for it but he kept running.
    :ramlogo:

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