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  1. #31
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Montana wasnt only great because of rice, but that was certainly a part of it. Put it another way. Archie Manning was one of the best qbs i ever saw. YOu cant however throw from flat on your ass.

    No one is saying dickerson wasnt a fantastic pure runner. Its certainly true that faulk had great weapons around him. However, Jackson has played with a sub par offensive line. Really lousy at times and has still put up great numbers. The offensive line is where it starts for a running back.

    The point of the discussion is to compare dickersons first four years to jacksons. Of course its premature to call jackson better because dickerson did it for longer. but i will say that the back years of dickersons career after he left the rams and all the all pro offensive linemen arent all that great. That fact alone should tell you that the offensive line deserves at least some of the credit for what dickerson accomplished. I will tell you something else. It sure wasnt the offensive line that fumbled the ball all those times it was dickerson himself.

    Most importantly, the key here is that people who say that jackson hasnt proved anything yet and doesnt deserve the money are far off base. The fact that we can even talk about dickerson and jackson in the same discussion shows that jackson is a great back. There is no denying the statistical achievements of jackson, no denying his lousy offensive lines and no denying dickersons fumbles. Even if dickerson is the better guy, jackson is a worthy all pro who deserves to be paid at the or near the top of his profession, calling him a guy who hasnt proved anything yet makes no sense at all.

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  2. #32
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    general counsel
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    "Even if dickerson is the better guy, jackson is a worthy all pro who deserves to be paid at the or near the top of his profession, calling him a guy who hasnt proved anything yet makes no sense at all."

    A player is worth whatever a team is willing to pay him.

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    "I will tell you something else. It sure wasnt the offensive line that fumbled the ball all those times it was dickerson himself."

    Every great player is not always great but they are great most of the time. So to knock ED for fumbles, how about lets knock every HOF players for mistake in there career. All the qb's that threw ints all the great wr's that ever drop a pass come on please. I respect your opinion. I watched ED when he played for SMU and I thought then he was going to be great and he did not disappoint me. We are going to have to agree to disagree.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    i dont think we are disagreeing much. I really do think dickerson was fantastic. My point on the fumbles was that he fumbled way more than the average back, let alone way more than the average hall of fame back. I will tell you for example that i think favre is way overated and i think that the INT's are a big part of that.

    I agree that a player is worth what the highest bidder will pay him. Thats the free market. Dickerson was worth far more than the rams were willing to pay him, but that of course was prior to free agency.

    I dont think i heard you say that jackson hasnt proven that he is a quality player who deserves to get paid. If you are of that view, we can agree to disagree. I really like reading your stuff, keep those posts coming.

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  4. #34
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    JackASSon has an advantage being we pass alot on this team. In Dick's day they pretty much ran most of the time. Hince the fumbles and such. 2 totally different offenses. And neither would probably fare as well if they were flipped . Bettis was a pounder, Dickerson was an upright fast and hard hittting back. JackASSon is both just not as good in both areas. but then there is Faulk who was just the best all around back we ever had hands down.
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  5. #35
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    One good point that gc brought up and I overlooked when posting the stats of the first four years for ED and SJ was game starts.

    ED had 62 game starts whereas SJ has accumulated his totals in just 46 game starts.

    For all reasonable purposes the GSOT ended after SB36. It certainly was dead in 2005 which was SJ's first full year as a starter.

    And for what it is worth, I watched SJ play at OSU and knew he would be an awesome NFL RB. I also was thrilled on draft day when the Rams were able to get him. I remember celebrating that fact right here at the ClanRam chat room. I also remember the moans and groans from many Rams fans when SJ was drafted that day.



  6. #36
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    One good point that gc brought up and I overlooked when posting the stats of the first four years for ED and SJ was game starts.

    ED had 62 game starts whereas SJ has accumulated his totals in just 46 game starts.

    For all reasonable purposes the GSOT ended after SB36. It certainly was dead in 2005 which was SJ's first full year as a starter.

    And for what it is worth, I watched SJ play at OSU and knew he would be an awesome NFL RB. I also was thrilled on draft day when the Rams were able to get him. I remember celebrating that fact right here at the ClanRam chat room. I also remember the moans and groans from many Rams fans when SJ was drafted that day.





    Is that why you were ready to send him packing just two weeks ago?

    Look dude, if you had said Jackson has the "potential" to be better than Dickerson, then I for one, would agree with you. But at this point in his (Jackson's) career, he's not even close.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -08-25-2008 at 03:31 PM.

  7. #37
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Is that why you were ready to send him packing just two weeks ago?
    As I also pointed out at that time the ED trade turned out to be a push, compared to before and after. I never advocated just giving SJ away. A lot would have needed to be offered in trade, IMO, a package somewhat similiar to what was acquired for ED. Also, I had already admitted that I was pissed about the situation, regardless, my feelings can in no way negate the numbers SJ has produced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Look dude, if you had said Jackson has the "potential" to be better than Dickerson, then I for one, would agree with you. But at this point in his (Jackson's) career, he's not even close.
    I think you are the one that needs to LOOK! In several key categories Jackson's numbers are better than Dickerson's. As was previously mentioned; Dickerson's fumbles alone are absolutely horrific. The fumbles led to a miserable 51-7 1984 playoff defeat at the hands of the redskins and a 24-0 loss to the bears in the 1986 NFC title game. Dickerson's receiving, blitz pick-up, and blocking skills pale in comparrison to Jackson's.

    Like I said, this is all highly subjective and can't be proven either way. However, you need to revise your statement, because the numbers, much to your chagrin, dictate that it is indeed CLOSE!



  8. #38
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    Re: Jackson and Dickerson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    As I also pointed out at that time the ED trade turned out to be a push, compared to before and after. I never advocated just giving SJ away. A lot would have needed to be offered in trade, IMO, a package somewhat similiar to what was acquired for ED. Also, I had already admitted that I was pissed about the situation, regardless, my feelings can in no way negate the numbers SJ has produced.

    I think you are the one that needs to LOOK! In several key categories Jackson's numbers are better than Dickerson's. As was previously mentioned; Dickerson's fumbles alone are absolutely horrific. The fumbles led to a miserable 51-7 1984 playoff defeat at the hands of the redskins and a 24-0 loss to the bears in the 1986 NFC title game. Dickerson's receiving, blitz pick-up, and blocking skills pale in comparrison to Jackson's.

    Like I said, this is all highly subjective and can't be proven either way. However, you need to revise your statement, because the numbers, much to your chagrin, dictate that it is indeed CLOSE!



    So you're telling me that if Jackson suffers a career ending injury on his very next carry, he will still go down in history as being better than Dickerson? I reiterate, that's ridiculous.

    Like I've intimated on more than one occassion, it is too soon to say Jackson is better than Dickerson, no matter what you're basing your arguement on.

    Listen dude, I love Jackson, he is currently my favorite Ram, but in my opinion, he has at least 4 years of serious production with an automatic Hall of Fame bid attached to the end of his career, before he comes close to Dickerson.

    And since you bring up Dickerson's fumbles that you say cost us a couple playoff games, I wonder how many games you give him credit for winning.

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