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  1. #31
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamWraith View Post
    But this isn't an open-and-shut case. The Rams aren't in prime position to attract an exciting, big-fish coach. This isn't a cash-rich franchise, and the Rams aren't going to spend huge dollars on a head coach.

    And it seems that "senior adviser" John Shaw will be involved in the coaching search, sitting in on the second interviews of the two or three finalists. (Red flag). And as they are flying to Los Angeles not St. Louis for the interview, interested candidates might want to ask a few questions about Shaw's long-distance influence.
    Both of these things really aggravate me as a Rams fan.

    Shaw needs to be gone, gone, gone I don't know how they can keep him involved at all and not upset the average fan. They are a business listen to your customers and get rid of him.

    Using Shanahan's contract as an example just because it was recently posted 3 years 20 million that is probably what the organization would consider a big contract for a football coach. IMO a good coach is what we need and if their best coaching candidate costs just under 7 million a year then they should spend the money to get him. Again I only used Shanahan's contract for reference. I would think any coach would cost you at least 2 million. So we are only talking 5 million dollars difference for the person that is ultimately in charge of all the players and responsible for returning this team to respectability for the customers/fans.


  2. #32
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
    if Rams keep Haslett because they don't want to spend money to get somebody good in there - well, then the Rams fans will pay for the sins of their cheap owners.

    I hope that does not happen to you guys - you deserve better!
    Maybe they don't have the money. Did you ever consider that? Personally, (If cash is tight for Chip & Sis) I'd rather see them use every spare dime towards better players than throwing money at the hottest coordinator out there.




    Quote Originally Posted by Falconator
    Haslett "totally lost control" of that Saints team - and it was not just the "Katrina year" either......Saints were a mess when he left them and you can lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Jim Haslett.....
    Oh cmon! A bit too much embellishment, I'd say. If it was not the Katrina disaster then what was it? The previous season was not great for the saints (8-8) however they did win their final 4 games that year. That hardly speaks to "totally lost control"

    With you being a falcons fan, I'm not sure why you even care so much about who the Rams hire as head coach or why you are on this anti-haslett campaign?




    Dom Capers? I've no idea where he gets all this respect one reads about. He has never held a DC position for more than a couple of years and with spotty success, at that.
    Maybe you should do some more research. He's highly respected among his peers and he is as good, if not better, than any of the latest, greatest DCs. He is also one of the very few NFL experts at putting together an aggressive 3-4 scheme.




  3. #33
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    The worst part of this report:
    Quote Originally Posted by RamWraith View Post
    And with seven or eight expected openings around the NFL, the money is a factor. As I wrote the other day, the head-coach position is more appealing with Billy Devaney installed as the general manager. But let's be realistic: This St. Louis job has chewed up coaches. And it seems that "senior adviser" John Shaw will be involved in the coaching search, sitting in on the second interviews of the two or three finalists. (Red flag). And as they are flying to Los Angeles not St. Louis for the interview, interested candidates might want to ask a few questions about Shaw's long-distance influence.

    The best/most promising part if it is in fact true:

    A new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator and a new special teams coach. Sources tell me that Haslett was working the phones on Monday, trying to line up tentative commitments. Some recognizable, even impressive, names are in the mix. Put it this way: how would you feel about Dom Capers as defensive coordinator and (drum roll) Mike Martz as offensive coordinator?

    Haslett has put together an offseason plan for upgrading key positions. The list should be familiar to you by now; it includes an offensive tackle, a guard, a middle linebacker, a wide body at defensive tackle, a physical wide receiver and a fullback.

    Haslett also will recommend the weeding out of a few knuckleheads, including the immature guard, Richie Incognito. Haslett kicked Incognito out of the locker room before Sunday's game in Atlanta after Incognito complained of having a queasy stomach. Incognito didn't suit up for the game.

    Haslett is determined to work with the trainers and strength coaches to develop a new offseason regimen for the injury-prone running back, Steven Jackson, the franchise centerpiece.

    Haslett apparently is willing to accept a reasonable two-year deal, which would give Rams management a relatively painless escape if they change their mind on Haslett a year from now.

    Given the sales pitch, are you willing to buy into Jim Haslett?

  4. #34
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofGod View Post
    The worst part of this report:
    What?

    What Part and what is so bad about it?

    Could you possibly be any more vague?




  5. #35
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Given that I have been wrong at least as many times as I have been right over my lifetime, I say retaining Haslett would be a monumental mistake. I must admit that I was excited to hear that he was hired as our DC three years ago, but that had more to do with his reputation as the NO HC and little research (part of my being wrong). After three years, he did nothing with our defense. After losing 10 games in a row as the interim coach, it was clear to me that he wasn't the answer. The fact that a bunch of loser players were willing to sign a petition to retain him as HC was all I needed to know that Jim must go. We need a man to bring in a new regime. For those who say it's okay to settle for poor thirds (retaining JH), if that's what you want, don't complain when the Rams are in the hunt for #1 in the 2010 draft.

  6. #36
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    I don't understand how most fans put 2 and 2 together.

    Haslett took charge of one of the absolute worst Rams rosters I have ever seen in my life.

    If the players gained an inch towards becoming a TEAM, under haslett, then they gained a mile as compared to how far away they were from being a TEAM under linehan.

    Now it seems there are more haslett haters than there were linehan haters.

    I'm not sure what so many expected from haslett. Personally, all I hoped for was that he could begin a healing process. I think he accomplished that and more.

    I like what I have read from devaney and I don't believe I have read any complaints from fans about devaney.

    Devaney has not yet fired haslett. He could have easily thrown haslett under the bus, I would say he has the power to do so, yet instead he does just the opposite and names haslett as a finalist for the position.

    You all like devaney while many of you hate haslett.

    I dunno, maybe it's just the way I put 2 and 2 together, but if I'm a haslett hater, then devaney is damn well an idiot to name haslett a finalist rather than fire him.




  7. #37
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamWraith View Post
    By Bernie Miklasz
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    12/30/2008

    Given the sales pitch, are you willing to buy into Jim Haslett?

    Absolutely NOT. Haslett had ample time to make as much of a change as he could. Instead, the team remained uninspired and unable to finish a game. Check out what Singletary did in San Francisco. It wasn't "his team," and the team still needed lots of work, but Singletary IMMEDIATELY sent notice to slackers and non conformists ( TE Vernon Davis) and made an IMMEDIATE difference that LASTED. His team CONSISTENTLY played BETTER, although not great. The Rams won two games, then looked just like they had under Linehan. Haslett seems to want to make us think that this wasn't his fault, but the fault of those around him. I don't think a change in staff will make much of a difference since the man in charge oversaw one of the worst defenses in the league for three seasons, while compiling a sub .500 record as a NFL head coach.
    So, IMO Haslett must go.

    Another thought.... WHY would Mike Martz want to come back to St. louis after what happened to him the first time?

  8. #38
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    I don't understand how most fans put 2 and 2 together.

    Haslett took charge of one of the absolute worst Rams rosters I have ever seen in my life.

    If the players gained an inch towards becoming a TEAM, under haslett, then they gained a mile as compared to how far away they were from being a TEAM under linehan.

    Now it seems there are more haslett haters than there were linehan haters.

    I'm not sure what so many expected from haslett. Personally, all I hoped for was that he could begin a healing process. I think he accomplished that and more.

    I like what I have read from devaney and I don't believe I have read any complaints from fans about devaney.

    Devaney has not yet fired haslett. He could have easily thrown haslett under the bus, I would say he has the power to do so, yet instead he does just the opposite and names haslett as a finalist for the position.

    You all like devaney while many of you hate haslett.

    I dunno, maybe it's just the way I put 2 and 2 together, but if I'm a haslett hater, then devaney is damn well an idiot to name haslett a finalist rather than fire him.




    I dislike Haslett's performance as a DC. It depends on which PD article you read on any given day to assess how much of that poor unit is his fault,personnel or strategy-wise. The D didn't change or improve in any consistent fashion over the 12 games he was HC so there's my math on that one.

    And I liked the guy's demeanor & rhetoric for the first few weeks as HC but there is a pretty painfully large body of evidence in the 10 losses that followed those first two wins to indicate he should not be considered as an incumbent to be ousted,imo.Give him the chance to make his case, by all means. I have no problem with him being a finalist but not the frontrunner.

    Do we have any reason to doubt Devaney so far? The draft crop seems promising. We may have overpaid for Bell but I don't remember there being much argument that he was a promising player.Kreider was a bust but Stills and Craft have proven valuable,among others.

    You had issue with my doubts about Capers in an earlier post. Always hard to tell what influence a HC has on one unit or the other but his built-from-scratch D @ Houston sucked.

    If he's so good, why has he gone from HC to positional coach? Burned out? Reportedly a workaholic.That worries me.

    One year isn't a fair sample to judge a DC, but he certainly worked no miracles for the '07 Fins.

    He had a great year with The Jags then the D regressed the following year. Then he got every fantasy leaguer's dream job; a chance to build a totally new team in Houston . But back to The Jags; pretty darned good team offensively & a good 2ndary before he got there so it was hardly a phoenix rising from the dead in "99.

    And if he had any input into the draft for the Jags, he sucked. I think 8 out of 9 picks went on D in '99 . Most sucked & aren't even in the NFL any more except for our own J. Craft. He got career-best years out of the d-line esp but the whole D fell off considerably the following year & they missed the playoffs.

    So..genius or co-inky-dink or Vermeil-esque over-achiever who may have trouble staying the long haul we are on?

    That's all the research I can muster but I do remember how scared I was of The Titans after McNair ran circles around the Jags in the AFCCG. Was he really that good or was the flash in the pan already starting to burn out?

    Here are the rankings for the year before he arrived & the two years he was DC and the year after he left.

    ...............98.......99 .00... 01
    OVERALL .25th 4th 12th 16TH
    RUSH...... 22ND 7TH. 11TH.10TH
    PASS...... 11TH 3RD 14TH. 22ND
    SACKS.... 27TH 1ST 15TH 10TH

    The numbers look like he wasn't a bad coach but weird how the strength of the D totally flip-flopped from pass to rush in such a short time . Which one do you want to credit/blame Capers for? Or is he Hazzified & only gets credit and no blame.

    I know he had success with The Panthers and Steelers but that's more than a while ago.

    What's the statute of limitations on accomplishment in the Not For Long ?

    Haslett has not had a D ranked above 14th since 2000.Maybe my math stinks but so does that.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -12-31-2008 at 04:01 AM.

  9. #39
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    I don't understand how most fans put 2 and 2 together.

    Haslett took charge of one of the absolute worst Rams rosters I have ever seen in my life.

    If the players gained an inch towards becoming a TEAM, under haslett, then they gained a mile as compared to how far away they were from being a TEAM under linehan.

    Now it seems there are more haslett haters than there were linehan haters.

    I'm not sure what so many expected from haslett. Personally, all I hoped for was that he could begin a healing process. I think he accomplished that and more.

    I like what I have read from devaney and I don't believe I have read any complaints from fans about devaney.

    Devaney has not yet fired haslett. He could have easily thrown haslett under the bus, I would say he has the power to do so, yet instead he does just the opposite and names haslett as a finalist for the position.

    You all like devaney while many of you hate haslett.

    I dunno, maybe it's just the way I put 2 and 2 together, but if I'm a haslett hater, then devaney is damn well an idiot to name haslett a finalist rather than fire him.



    Ferter: when you put 2 and 2 together you are supposed to come up with 4......

    somehow you are putting 2 and 2 together to come up with 5 if you think retaining Haslett is a good idea

  10. #40
    moloch41 Guest

    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    I dunno, maybe it's just the way I put 2 and 2 together, but if I'm a haslett hater, then devaney is damn well an idiot to name haslett a finalist rather than fire him.
    Because you don't have to fire him- you just don't hire him as head coach. I think the big reason Devanney is interviewing him is out of courtesy. He did them the favor of taking over the team when Linehan was fired and they're repaying that with a chance to land the gig full time. If you just rule him out and throw him under the bus, your burning your bridges with other coaches in the future.

    Before he became the interim, people were high on him because they thought he was "Really Fiery" and assumed that would be enough to get this team over the hump, but as they soon realized, "fiery" will only get you so far. At some point, you have to know how to coach and know how to adjust gameplans- something he showed that he was unable to do over 12 games. I was never high on him and was against handing him the job even on an interim basis, but I also agreed that we have limited options as to who would take the job 4 games into the season. I absolutely despised the job he was doing as DC, but since my opinion doesn't matter in what the Rams do, I decided to give him a chance and hoped that he was a better HC than DC. Unfortunately, it looks like he was an even worse head coach. At least as DC, he could put together a good half until teams figured out what he was doing and made halftime adjustments. This guy is NOT the long term answer for the Rams.

  11. #41
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by moloch
    people were high on him because they thought he was "Really Fiery"
    As I've done before I must ask again........Moloch, is there anyone out there (other than you, of course, and Ramarkable) that is raising up the "fiery" moniker as justification for Haslett's retention?
    Last edited by HUbison; -12-31-2008 at 11:46 AM.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #42
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    my take on the situation...they know about Haslett and what he has to offer..the fact that they seeking advice etc...about other possible HC`s indicates that they not completely sold on what Jim has to offer but they dont want to be scrambling for anyone..ala the redskins when they originally hired Zorn to be an assistant,but decided to promote him to HC when other oppurtunities werent forthcoming.

    if the Rams cant find anyone better then they will keep Has!

    I think they will tho.

  13. #43
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    I would like to see us clean house.

  14. #44
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    I dislike Haslett's performance as a DC. It depends on which PD article you read on any given day to assess how much of that poor unit is his fault,personnel or strategy-wise. The D didn't change or improve in any consistent fashion over the 12 games he was HC so there's my math on that one.
    I don't read PD articles to assess the defense, I just watch them play every sunday. bottom line: the majority of defensive players are crap. they are soft and they play soft. IMO no amount of brilliant scheming is going to help these bums. You could put the majority of them smack dab in the middle of an opportunity to make a play and they would fail, just like they have done - over and over again. haslett did not pick this group, I'm not saying that makes him blameless, but I don't think it is entirely fair to blame it all on haslett. It never ceases to amaze me....if a coach has great personnel then he is the latest genius....if he has crap players then he is the village idiot.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro
    And if he had any input into the draft for the Jags, he sucked. I think 8 out of 9 picks went on D in '99 . Most sucked & aren't even in the NFL any more except for our own J. Craft. He got career-best years out of the d-line esp but the whole D fell off considerably the following year & they missed the playoffs.
    That's a big "IF" - but regardless, we have an example of basically the same thing from our own rams in lovie smith and it has been documented that he had input. But hey, that idiot flew off to chicago and got the bears to the super bowl mainly with defensive personnel and not his brilliant scheming.





    Quote Originally Posted by Falconator
    Ferter: when you put 2 and 2 together you are supposed to come up with 4......

    somehow you are putting 2 and 2 together to come up with 5 if you think retaining Haslett is a good idea
    Hey, great answer to the questions and comments I posed to you.....don't ya think? eh, well maybe you don't.

    I have never said that I think retaining haslett is a good idea. Besides that, I'm not the one you need to convince one way or the other.

    I will say this:
    If I'm devaney and I'm relying on what you have written, here at this site, to convince me one way or the other, then I'm in deep **** and an idiot for even listening to you to begin with.

    I have read a few good posts here from other members, (BBQ and Goldenfleece), that speak to being fair when judging haslett, however I have not read one decent post from the haslett haters that is even remotely convincing towards getting rid of haslett.

    That's not to say that haslett should not go, it's just to say no one here has written anything that is remotely convincing. in the end, I really don't give a crap because I know devaney is going to make the decision. With all the people surrounding him I think I trust he will make the call that is best suited for the Rams over the next few years.





    Quote Originally Posted by moloch41
    Because you don't have to fire him- you just don't hire him as head coach. I think the big reason Devanney is interviewing him is out of courtesy. He did them the favor of taking over the team when Linehan was fired and they're repaying that with a chance to land the gig full time. If you just rule him out and throw him under the bus, your burning your bridges with other coaches in the future.
    I don't think devaney is the type to waste time or energy on a guy that he simply intends to replace. What bridges would you be burning? It's already been reported that the big name money seekers don't want to come to the Rams. Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that this vacancy could go unfilled if haslett were to have been let go on seasons end? how in the sam hell is denver ever going to get a coach after firing the well respected 2-time super bowl winner, shanahan? OMG the bridges are burning in denver. Please someone put the fire out.


    Quote Originally Posted by moloch41
    At least as DC, he could put together a good half until teams figured out what he was doing and made halftime adjustments.
    Other than being the village KING at sarcastic rhetoric, this, and the TE sarcasm, are the only other consistent messages you deliver. The funny thing is that you and all the rest of the guys who are always *****in about scheme never seem to indicate what the scheme is or why it was the wrong scheme in a certain situation or what the correct scheme should have been in any situation. There is no amount of scheming in the entire freaking history of football - be it back yard or NFL variety - that could put these pathetic defensive players in an opportunity to make a play. They'd fail and they have failed - time and time again.




  15. #45
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Somewhere in Coach Haslett's experience is the leadership, knowledge and the character, all three attributes, to build a winning team.

    As Ferter just pointed out, the Rams D hasn't been of much help but I believe that with an improved OL / offense, our team can win more games than defend against losing some. [And BTW, I think our defense will be slightly better next year too].


    This might be one of those scenarios where encouraging continuity with a head coach -- such as Haslett and not as occurred with Linehan --can turn out better results than experimenting with a totally newcomer HC prospect. This is the strategy that Bills owner Ralph Wilson just recently decided upon in retaining their HC Jauron.

    ...For 2009 I kind of like this approach for the Rams as well.

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