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  1. #61
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    Something wrong with your numbers (seeing that I'm a big stat guy). Other than the year he inherited the team, Haslett hasn't shown me anything to inspire me that he should be retained as our head coach and be the architect of our rebuilding years.
    actually they are not my numbers they are what everyone commonly refers to as haslett's numbers. but truth be told they are not entirely his numbers either. anyways, I left out this interim year in the total. you can count whatever you like, won't bother me any or change my opinion. haslett has not shown me anything either and i hope he never offers. come to think of it he hasn't inspired me either, but not sure what the hell that matters since no NFL head coach has ever inspired me.




    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    I'm assuming by the poor sentence structure, given the preceeding sentence, that you meant to say you would trade head coaches for all-pro players all day long. Yeah, that worked for Dan Snyder didn't it. The absurdity of your challenge, given all of the examples to the contrary where coaches have lifted average players to accomplish great things, makes one wonder where your hostility is directed?
    Oh, you have gone from site comedian to site grammar instructor - now that is funny!

    Anyways....yes, I meant I'd rather have all-pro players coahed by what many consider to be an average head coach than a staff of hall of fame coaches trying to coach a bunch of bad players.

    Even though the redskins have never had a roster full of all-pro players -what exactly has worked for Dan Snyder? He brought back Gibbs (a guy that would seemingly fit your story book description) and that failed to get them to the superbowl.

    And why in the sam hell are you accusing me of having some sort of hostility? I'm not hostile about any of this. Now if linehan makes the interview list i'm sure i'd get pissed but not hostile.

    Anyways it was nice of you to plop your big ass down and start attacking my opinions while not leaving any of your own.




  2. #62
    bigredman Guest

    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    Oh, you have gone from site comedian to site grammar instructor - now that is funny!
    I'm sure you meant: "Oh, you have gone from site comedian to site grammer instructor? Now that is funny!"

    And why in the sam hell are you accusing me of having some sort of hostility? I'm not hostile about any of this. Now if linehan makes the interview list i'm sure i'd get pissed but not hostile.

    Anyways it was nice of you to plop your big ass down and start attacking my opinions while not leaving any of your own.
    Nah, you don't have any hostility issues. What was I thinking? As far as not leaving any opinion, I'm pretty sure I did and you obviously are responding to it, but thank you for noticing my ass. I'm rather proud of it myself, and now that I know you are looking, I'll be sure to show it to you everytime we meet.





  3. #63
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    What was I thinking?
    God only knows



    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    I'm pretty sure I did and you obviously are responding to it
    Hey, what can I say? You inspired me?



    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    I'm rather proud of it myself
    Really, you shouldn't flatter yourself, it's very unbecoming!




    I'm leaving now so you can have the last word. peace to you and have a happy new year!



  4. #64
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamWraith View Post
    By Bernie Miklasz
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    12/30/2008

    Sportswriters like to believe that our opinion matters most. We want to convince everyone that we're right. We'll try to talk you into it, even if it takes all day. We go on ego trips and stay too long.

    I'm not going to try to make the case for, or against, Jim Haslett.

    Sure, I have an opinion.

    After losing 45 of their previous 64 games, the Rams need to make a change. They need to move as far away from the status quo as much as possible. And that's problematic for Haslett. As defensive coordinator, and then interim head coach, he has been in a leadership position at Rams Park for the last three seasons.

    Haslett's defense has never ranked better than 28th out of 32 NFL teams in points allowed. And Haslett certainly had considerable influence (if not total control) over personnel on the defensive side. Haslett's record as an NFL head coach is 47-61. Ugh.

    But this isn't an open-and-shut case. The Rams aren't in prime position to attract an exciting, big-fish coach. This isn't a cash-rich franchise, and the Rams aren't going to spend huge dollars on a head coach.

    And with seven or eight expected openings around the NFL, the money is a factor. As I wrote the other day, the head-coach position is more appealing with Billy Devaney installed as the general manager. But let's be realistic: This St. Louis job has chewed up coaches. And it seems that "senior adviser" John Shaw will be involved in the coaching search, sitting in on the second interviews of the two or three finalists. (Red flag). And as they are flying to Los Angeles not St. Louis for the interview, interested candidates might want to ask a few questions about Shaw's long-distance influence.

    All of this (and more) explains why Rams upper management may conclude that Haslett is their best option. Haslett will be a tough sell to the fan base, unless you're the type of person who draws emotional inspiration from a 10-game losing streak.

    And that's why my opinion doesn't matter.

    If the Rams decide to stay the course with Haslett and hope to make a sale, they'll have to convince the most important people: you, the customer. You are buying the tickets not me.

    So can you be talked into buying into Haslett?

    First, Haslett must convince Devaney, Shaw and the owners that he's the most sensible realistic option to go forward with the franchise. Haslett must convince the top dogs that they'll see something bold and dramatically different from him in 2009, compared to the three previous dud seasons at Rams Park.

    "It can't be window dressing," Devaney said. "It has to be radical in every phase. It can't be status quo. With Jim, I'll want to know, 'What exactly do you have in mind to change things and make a true difference as Rams coach?' ''

    After working the hallways at Rams Park on Monday, I believe I have a good handle on Haslett's campaign pitch to management:

    A new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator and a new special teams coach. Sources tell me that Haslett was working the phones on Monday, trying to line up tentative commitments. Some recognizable, even impressive, names are in the mix. Put it this way: how would you feel about Dom Capers as defensive coordinator and (drum roll) Mike Martz as offensive coordinator?

    Haslett has put together an offseason plan for upgrading key positions. The list should be familiar to you by now; it includes an offensive tackle, a guard, a middle linebacker, a wide body at defensive tackle, a physical wide receiver and a fullback.

    Haslett also will recommend the weeding out of a few knuckleheads, including the immature guard, Richie Incognito. Haslett kicked Incognito out of the locker room before Sunday's game in Atlanta after Incognito complained of having a queasy stomach. Incognito didn't suit up for the game.

    Haslett will try to convince the bosses that he'll have a new coaching staff assembled in short order, which will give the Rams a jump on NFL teams scrambling for assistants after hiring the new head coach.

    Haslett is determined to work with the trainers and strength coaches to develop a new offseason regimen for the injury-prone running back, Steven Jackson, the franchise centerpiece.

    Haslett apparently is willing to accept a reasonable two-year deal, which would give Rams management a relatively painless escape if they change their mind on Haslett a year from now.

    Given the sales pitch, are you willing to buy into Jim Haslett?

    Add a real "Franchise QB" to that list Jim, and you may get my support.

  5. #65
    Falconator Guest

    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Ferter,

    I agree with you that to win in the NFL you have to have players.....but, I think you could take a "great coach" like a Bellicheck and he could find a way to win with average NFL players......if Belicheck was coaching the Rams this year they would have been 8-8.

    Your mistake, IMHO Ferter, is you are grossly underestimating coaching in the NFL - it makes a difference, it really does.

  6. #66
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
    I agree with you that to win in the NFL you have to have players.....but, I think you could take a "great coach" like a Bellicheck and he could find a way to win with average NFL players......if Belicheck was coaching the Rams this year they would have been 8-8.
    Honestly there is no way to know or prove what belichick could have done with this seasons Rams Roster. The circumstances would have to be the exact same and that's never going to happen. IMO it's just silly to even think in these terms.

    You might be surprised to know a bit more about belichick's head coaching record. During his 5 seasons as head coach of the browns the record was 36-44. During his first 3 seasons as head coach of the pats the record was 25-23. His first 8 seasons of head coaching the record was 61-67. Bottom line: when he does not have a dream team roster he's human. And I bet he bleeds too.....lol



    Quote Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
    Your mistake, IMHO Ferter, is you are grossly underestimating coaching in the NFL - it makes a difference, it really does.
    Mistake? It's not a mistake! As far as life goes it's just an opinion about a meaningless game. You might have a different opinion and that is fine, but that's no more a mistake than my opinion. Honestly, I don't recall placing a definitive value on a head coach or coaching in any of my posts. I suppose you could try and establish the relative value of a head coach.

    I'll tell you what; when you show me a mathematical proof that defines the relative value of a head coach then we can begin to talk about whether i am "GROSSLY" (lol-i must say that is a good one) underestimating that value.




  7. #67
    bigredman Guest

    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    If Bernie's sources can be believed, the reasons given, plus a few of my own below, does set the table for a solid argument to keep Haslett.

    First, I'm not all that excited about the prospects of Martz coming back. I don't believe Haslett would be able to control Martz's propensity to believe his pass happy system is perfect. It would also seem to go against becoming more run oriented with Jackson and picking up a fullback.

    We know the players petitioned to have him stay, so Haslett would have free reign to lower the boom, instill some discipline and hard work into this team during training camp. Haslett also has shown his willingness to sit players if they show any sign of putting out less than 100 percent on game day.

    Haslett was able to get the team to play hard, at times. There were still periods where the team obviously was packing it in, so it will be his task to get consistency of effort every game, every quarter, every minute.

    Haslett's loyalty to this team is starting to impress me. Face it, he could have just resigned and went to look for an opportunity elsewhere in the league, of which there are many. His desire to stick it out here and busting his butt to put together a staff and plan for his meeting with the owner shows me the kind of stuff I would be looking for in a coach.

    I'm changing my mind. Haslett's record as a head coach hasn't been stellar, but then again, look at what he was handed (Ditka's fiasco trades gutting Saints for years, and Zygmunt/Linehan's inept personnel selections) and his record takes on a different perspective.

    The Rams have 7 interviews lined up between now and next week. Hopefully, we'll have our answer by January 10th.



  8. #68
    Falconator Guest

    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Ferter,

    I don't understand the way you think.....I give up...

  9. #69
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    First, I'm not all that excited about the prospects of Martz coming back. I don't believe Haslett would be able to control Martz's propensity to believe his pass happy system is perfect. It would also seem to go against becoming more run oriented with Jackson and picking up a fullback.
    To start with, very good post! Clear, concise, logical, red, and most of all, FAIR. I think haslett deserves a fair shot at the job and I wish more members would at least try to be fair about that with their posts.

    As far as the hiring of Martz goes I too think it is a concern. I'm not totally against the idea I'm just concerned as to how well it will work. Martz can be stubborn with his philosophy, but one would have to think haslett knows this going in. Martz was the head coach when Jackson was drafted, so I'm sure he had big plans for him in his offense. I always wondered if it was Martz or zygmunt that let the big fullback get away to arizona. Regardless, Martz does have (or he has in the past) a fullback or H-back incorporated into his offense.

    One of the articles posted here at the site stated that the Rams plans are to have the head coach in place by the 3rd week in Jan.




    Quote Originally Posted by Falconator
    Ferter,

    I don't understand the way you think.....I give up...
    I've been trying to help you understand my thinking, but hey, it's cool. If we all thought about things the same way then life would be pretty damn boring.




  10. #70
    Tony Soprano Guest

    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    .
    Look at the Defense on this team! Haslett had in NFL terms, Forever to fix this Defense, he has Failed. They gave up 10 yards per carry in the last game to ATL RB's for God's sake.

    Don't expect anything different than what we've seen for 3 years from Haslett if you hire him.

    It's crazy to think he can fix anything on Defense. This is his Defense - this is his scheme, watch it and weep is what they call his scheme.





    .

  11. #71
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    I do think giving Haslett a chance is the right thing to do in this situation. It's amazing how quickly people can forget the good and be englulfed by the bad - I'm referring to our 2 brilliant wins vs. the Redskins and Cowboys in Haslett's first two games. I think Haslett right there proved that he could motivate this team to play hard and to pull out wins against 2 very good teams in this league. Maybe THAT is the true Head Coach Jim Haslett can be.

    Lets face it, from there on in we were hit by the huge injury to Jackson which in effect ended our season. This team does not have great depth in personnel and we struggled immensely offensively without Steven. Do we lay the blame of this on Haslett, because he couldn't win with a lot of the dead weight from the Zygmunt/Linehan era? I think that would be very harsh. It seems to me at least, that he does have a major and concise plan as to what personnel/staff changes he would make if he were to stay on as Rams HC. To me, it doesn't sound too bad at all.

    I agree that a GREAT coach will be able to muster out very good performances from an average group of personnel, but there are not that many who can. Maybe behind his own direction and with improvement of the roster all round (and the addition of a new DC), Haslett can get similar results from this team to the ones he did in the Dallas and Washington games.

    I'm not saying that Haslett should be a frontrunner by any means, and that 10 game losing streak doe speak for itself. But I agree with Ferter and BigRed that we've got to take into consideration the entire circumstances and give Haslett as fair a shot at the position as any outsider.

  12. #72
    Falconator Guest

    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBulger View Post
    I do think giving Haslett a chance is the right thing to do in this situation. It's amazing how quickly people can forget the good and be englulfed by the bad - I'm referring to our 2 brilliant wins vs. the Redskins and Cowboys in Haslett's first two games. I think Haslett right there proved that he could motivate this team to play hard and to pull out wins against 2 very good teams in this league. Maybe THAT is the true Head Coach Jim Haslett can be.

    Lets face it, from there on in we were hit by the huge injury to Jackson which in effect ended our season. This team does not have great depth in personnel and we struggled immensely offensively without Steven. Do we lay the blame of this on Haslett, because he couldn't win with a lot of the dead weight from the Zygmunt/Linehan era? I think that would be very harsh. It seems to me at least, that he does have a major and concise plan as to what personnel/staff changes he would make if he were to stay on as Rams HC. To me, it doesn't sound too bad at all.

    I agree that a GREAT coach will be able to muster out very good performances from an average group of personnel, but there are not that many who can. Maybe behind his own direction and with improvement of the roster all round (and the addition of a new DC), Haslett can get similar results from this team to the ones he did in the Dallas and Washington games.

    I'm not saying that Haslett should be a frontrunner by any means, and that 10 game losing streak doe speak for itself. But I agree with Ferter and BigRed that we've got to take into consideration the entire circumstances and give Haslett as fair a shot at the position as any outsider.
    I do "GET" that Haslett was in a tough spot being interim head coach of this team, inheriting 0-4 team and having the injury to Steven Jax.

    What I don't "GET" is that so many of you are ready to embrace the possibility of Jim Haslett as your head coach when he was a FAILURE as the defensive coordinator here for the last three years. Like Tony Soprano said, that is a long enough time for a good coach to make their mark on a defense........So, too me, that would be enough to disqualify Haslett.......obviously many of you disagree..

  13. #73
    Azul e Oro is online now Registered User
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Call it St Louis' version of "Stockholm Syndrome", Falconator, where the victims are bonded to the criminal perpetrators in their trauma.

    I'd give Martz a shot at FB before HC or OC. Maybe he could even be the "sloppy-bodied" DT that is reportedly on Billy D's wish list. He recently described himself as being built like " a sack of doorknobs" in the SF papers!

    It's clear from recent statements by BD that Haslett is going to be given the "fair" chance that Ferter wants so let's see what happens.We have to hope that Billy D has the inside scoop on what Haz's culpability or not for the failure of the D over the last 3 yrs really is & act accordingly.

    Speaking of judging coachflesh,I think it'll be an interesting test of Mike Smith & his DC's abilities to adapt and overcome roster weaknesses vs The Cards. I think Turner will run wild but how Smith & co keep the Cards from running is a key to the game.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -01-02-2009 at 01:35 PM.

  14. #74
    Falconator Guest

    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    Call it St Louis' version of "Stockholm Syndrome", Falconator, where the victims are bonded to the criminal perpetrators in their trauma.

    I'd give Martz a shot at FB before HC or OC. Maybe he could even be the "sloppy-bodied" DT that is reportedly on Billy D's wish list. He recently described himself as being built like " a sack of doorknobs" in the SF papers!

    It's clear from recent statements by BD that Haslett is going to be given the "fair" chance that Ferter wants so let's see what happens.We have to hope that Billy D has the inside scoop on what Haz's culpability or not for the failure of the D over the last 3 yrs really is & act accordingly.

    Speaking of judging coachflesh,I think it'll be an interesting test of Mike Smith & his DC's abilities to adapt and overcome roster weaknesses vs The Cards. I think Turner will run wild but how Smith & co keep the Cards from running is a key to the game.
    LOL at the Stockholm Syndrome reference Azul......think you may be right about that one....

    Yes, Falcons offense will have to play "great" to win and beat the Cardinals because I doubt that the Falcons defense will get pressure on Warner and those WRs are BEASTS......

    While Mike Smith was a good defensive coordinator for Jax, Falcons need a little more personnel on that side of the ball. I think this offseason the Falcons will go after defensive tackles and linebackers in the draft and free agency. Probably a new young strong safety as well. Before someone "jumps" on this paragraph and uses it to defend Haslett, Mike Smith has had one season with Atlanta - one - and Smith is not even the DC now (Brian Van Gorder is).

  15. #75
    jjigga3000's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Haslett as St. Louis Rams coach ... are fans willing?

    I've always said it and I'll keep saying it, we need to keep Haslett bringing in someone new would be a huge mistake. The players have all ready bought into his philosophy and have shown huge improvements in the last few games. They have shown they don't want to lose. When they could have bagged it up, and turned it off looking towards the off season. They played like they were trying to get into the playoffs.

    You know they've bought into Haslett. Why take a chance on someone new especially when you know you're not going to get a prominent former Head coach. I would never take a chance on a coordinator you really never know what you're going to get. Look at former Pats assistants. if it is true he'll bring back in Martz, and Martz accepts. Then that's a good mix. Martz has three components he allready needs. Bulger, Holt, and Jackson. My opinion and I'm sticking with it.

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