View Poll Results: Is Jim Thomas right about the lease situation impacting attendance?

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  • No. Its all about winning and losing. Fans generally don't worry about the business details.

    15 60.00%
  • Yes. The uncertainty of the current lease situation likely causes many to stay away.

    10 40.00%
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Thread: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

  1. #1
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    Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    In response to a chat question regarding the Rams' attendance, Jim Thomas wrote the following:

    I think if any other franchise in the NFL was 19-71-1 over its last 90 games, you'd see a lot of empty seats. Although most of us, I think, would agree that that the team is notceably improved this season, I think fans are still a little hesistant to jump in at 4-6-1. Especially with the lease situation looming.
    While I agree that the Rams poor record in recent years is the primary cause of low attendance, I don't buy the notion that the lease situation has a thing to do with attendance. If the Rams were winning, I think the building would be filled to capacity regardless of any ongoing lease negotiations.

    Agree? Disagree?
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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    When we played the Jets it was picked up from the announcers about the low attendance, but someone on this board noted the place was full. The Dome has always been notorious about the tailgating (urinating) late arrivals.
    Kiss my ass, football gods

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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    I voted The uncertainty of the current lease situation likely causes many to stay away.

    Having been through this with the Rams when they left Cali. I have to think the Rams fans are not going to return until the Rams commit. These fans also have lost a team and know the feeling all too well. It sucks and it's going to get worse before it get better.

    So I disagree with you on this one Av, I think it's all bout the lease for most fans.

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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    I also voted "Yes. The uncertainty of the current lease situation likely causes many to stay away." My main reason for this is because of PSLs. As I understand it, most PSLs have been sold. You only lose your PSL if you don't renew your season tickets. I am not sure if that is every season, or if you are allowed to maintain PSLs without buying tickets under a "hardship clause". This means most of the stadium attendance is controlled by PSL holders.

    If I was a fan that wanted to buy season tickets, and you can only buy 3 or 4 games per year without buying PSLs, I would not want to buy a PSL if the team wouldn't commit to staying in St Louis. The only way I would buy a PSL is if the team has to buy it back if they leave.

    And remember, if you are an avid fan, and you want to support the team by attending games, you cannot buy more than 3 or 4 games worth of tickets (in any location) without a PSL.


    gap

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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    If the Rams were winning, I think the building would be filled to capacity regardless of any ongoing lease negotiations.

    Agree? Disagree?
    I agree 100%. The Rams did real well in Anaheim when they were winning. When the 90's came along and the losing started the fans started finding better things to do.

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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    I can understand fans not selling out a building when there is an extended period of losing, as the Rams have demonstrated for the better part of a decade. In this economy, why travel and spend your hard earned money to watch an inferior product put on a pathetic display of football week in and week out? And in cities where there are a million other things to do, many people would rather enjoy themselves than lend themselves to three hours of aggrevation on a Sunday.

    That said, there is absolutely no excuse for there to be a ton of empty seats this season. Kroenke has spent money to better the club. He hired a name coach to give the Rams relevance and credibility. He has publicly stated (whether you believe it or not) that he's not looking to leave St. Louis and he's a native Missourian. The team has shown marked improvement that leads us to believe the Rams will be a competitive football team very soon. There are marketable players like Jackson, Bradford, Long and Amendola on the roster. To have 10, 12, 14 thousand empty seats at any game is a disgrace. You'd never in a million years see that in Pittsburgh, New York/New Jersey, Green Bay, Dallas or any one of a dozen other venues across the league.

    Ask yourself a simple question: If you owned a team and you made what you felt were honest attempts to improve the team and fans STILL didn't show, why the hell would you attempt to stay if the grass was greener elsewhere?

    I don't buy the lease negotiations argument. The true fan is not going to NOT GO to games based on what MIGHT happen in 2,3,5 years. From my POV, there simply aren't ENOUGH die-hard Rams fans in St. Louis, thus the empty seats.
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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    I can understand fans not selling out a building when there is an extended period of losing, as the Rams have demonstrated for the better part of a decade. In this economy, why travel and spend your hard earned money to watch an inferior product put on a pathetic display of football week in and week out? And in cities where there are a million other things to do, many people would rather enjoy themselves than lend themselves to three hours of aggrevation on a Sunday.

    That said, there is absolutely no excuse for there to be a ton of empty seats this season. Kroenke has spent money to better the club. He hired a name coach to give the Rams relevance and credibility. He has publicly stated (whether you believe it or not) that he's not looking to leave St. Louis and he's a native Missourian. The team has shown marked improvement that leads us to believe the Rams will be a competitive football team very soon. There are marketable players like Jackson, Bradford, Long and Amendola on the roster. To have 10, 12, 14 thousand empty seats at any game is a disgrace. You'd never in a million years see that in Pittsburgh, New York/New Jersey, Green Bay, Dallas or any one of a dozen other venues across the league.

    Ask yourself a simple question: If you owned a team and you made what you felt were honest attempts to improve the team and fans STILL didn't show, why the hell would you attempt to stay if the grass was greener elsewhere?

    I don't buy the lease negotiations argument. The true fan is not going to NOT GO to games based on what MIGHT happen in 2,3,5 years. From my POV, there simply aren't ENOUGH die-hard Rams fans in St. Louis, thus the empty seats.
    You didn't read my post, did you?

    There are plenty of die-hard RAMS fans in St. Louis. They just weren't fortunate enough to get PSLs. That means they CANNOT buy tickets to more than 3 (maybe 4) games per year. That also means they have to choose which 3 or 4 they want to go to.

    The vast majority of PSL owners in the lower bowl, the ones you see when the cameras "pan the crowd" (really, how often to they pan across the upper level?), are businesses. They bought those tickets for "perks", or to to sell on scalping sites. Let's face it, with the way the RAMS have been playing, whose going to pay for more than face value for a ticket? Either an opposing team's fan (fairly confident they will get to see their team win), or a RAMS fan from out of town, looking for that rare oppotunity to see their team play "with home field advantage" (yeah, like the officials have ever given them home field advantage in St. Louis).

    To be fair, there are some rabid RAMS fans in the lower bowl, but they are out-numbered by the above.

    Now, if there are PSLs still available, and I believe the PSL cost is the same cost as annual season tickets, would you pony up that cost knowing the team may be leaving in a few years? If you did, would you get a refund when the team leaves?

    If Stan doesn't want to commit to staying in St. Louis, he should allow people to buy season tickets, or more than 4 games woth of tickets, without buying PSLs. If that was an option, you'd probably see more ticket sales, and more filled seats. The RAMS should also note PSLs that are continually empty, and give notice that they will lose their tickets if the seats aren't filled, and then offer those tickets to someone else.


    gap

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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    In response to a chat question regarding the Rams' attendance, Jim Thomas wrote the following:



    While I agree that the Rams poor record in recent years is the primary cause of low attendance, I don't buy the notion that the lease situation has a thing to do with attendance. If the Rams were winning, I think the building would be filled to capacity regardless of any ongoing lease negotiations.

    Agree? Disagree?
    For once I agree with you.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    For once I agree with you.
    It was bound to happen sooner or later.

    Very interesting results so far.

  10. #10
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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    It was bound to happen sooner or later.

    Very interesting results so far.
    It's actually happened before, I just can't recall it.

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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    Quote Originally Posted by gap View Post
    You didn't read my post, did you?

    There are plenty of die-hard RAMS fans in St. Louis. They just weren't fortunate enough to get PSLs. That means they CANNOT buy tickets to more than 3 (maybe 4) games per year. That also means they have to choose which 3 or 4 they want to go to.

    The vast majority of PSL owners in the lower bowl, the ones you see when the cameras "pan the crowd" (really, how often to they pan across the upper level?), are businesses. They bought those tickets for "perks", or to to sell on scalping sites. Let's face it, with the way the RAMS have been playing, whose going to pay for more than face value for a ticket? Either an opposing team's fan (fairly confident they will get to see their team win), or a RAMS fan from out of town, looking for that rare oppotunity to see their team play "with home field advantage" (yeah, like the officials have ever given them home field advantage in St. Louis).

    To be fair, there are some rabid RAMS fans in the lower bowl, but they are out-numbered by the above.

    Now, if there are PSLs still available, and I believe the PSL cost is the same cost as annual season tickets, would you pony up that cost knowing the team may be leaving in a few years? If you did, would you get a refund when the team leaves?

    If Stan doesn't want to commit to staying in St. Louis, he should allow people to buy season tickets, or more than 4 games woth of tickets, without buying PSLs. If that was an option, you'd probably see more ticket sales, and more filled seats. The RAMS should also note PSLs that are continually empty, and give notice that they will lose their tickets if the seats aren't filled, and then offer those tickets to someone else.


    gap
    I understand what you're saying, gap, and agree that if what you're saying is true, Stan needs to make it more convenient for the fan. But you can get a ticket for anything, provided you're willing to pay for it. And if you're that big a fan and live in the area, there's no excuse not to go to the games. If that means you have to make the extra effort to buy tickets every week or two instead of getting 8 season tickets to home games at the start of the season, then so be it. And if you're not wealthy enough to get a seat 10 rows from the field, you scalp a $50.00 seat from a guy at the Dome or go to stub hub or ebay. It's not that tough. I'm not convinced that so many people have bought PSLs that the "common fan" is phased out completely. I don't buy it. There is no area in the country more corporate than where I live, and despite them being sold out for years in advance, I could get a Giants ticket in 10 minutes.

    If what you're saying is accurate, I would be very interested in someone in the St. Louis media confronting Stan and/or the corporate office about this issue and seeing what the response is.

  12. #12
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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    I think the lease situation has very little to do with the empty seats.

    Here's my take.

    The Rams have been downright awful the past half decade. LITERALLY, the worst team in a five year stretch ever in the NFL! The difference between the Rams and other teams that some believe could keep attendance up through times this bad is history. A large chunk of the problem is the fact that the Rams have only been in STL for less than two decades and havent proven their worth. In that time, they had a few good years with the GSOT. Yes, they did give us a Super Bowl win, but that even fades away after years andyears of atrocity. Once the GSOT Rams left the building, the team didnt even compete. Fans grew tireless of seeing the same Rams they saw before Warner, and the majority probably chose to spend their ticket money going to Cardinals games(they have a great history in STL and I cant remember the last time they didnt atleast compete).

    It just that simple.

    And lets be honest, St, Louis obviously isnt a die hard football town(Aside from a small minority ofcourse), bt that doesn't mean they're terrible fair weather fans. The fans have proven that if the organization puts a competitive product on the field, they will fill the seats. They dont have to go 9-7 every season either, but to go from 3-13 to 2-12 to even worse is just plain unacceptable.

    As for the notion that the average fan should be attending games this year because of the "promise" they've shown is unfair. The Rams are going to have to finish strong this year and perform even better in the following year. Why? Because the 2010 Rams got us all excited almost going .500 and getting into the playoffs, only to flop and go 2-14 the very next year, ending in yet another Head Coach firing. I think some fans are still weary about that whole situation. The Rams need to show the fans some continuity, plain and simple. Im confident though that if the Rams can actually field a competitive team for a duration of more than 3-4 years, they can grow a more loyal fanbase.

    Sorry for grammatical errors i took English in my JuCo years
    Last edited by FestusRam; -11-28-2012 at 03:06 AM.
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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    It's all about wins and losses. When the losses number is greater than the wins number there are more empty seats. Especially when the losses number has been greater than the wins number for an extended period of time.

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    Re: Is Jim Thomas right or wrong about attendance at EJD?

    Agree, but only because I think there's a fundamental difference between "the fencers" and "the gamers".

    While I think the lease situation DOES affect the fan base, I believe that effect is limited to the types that watch the team from a distance and are subject to not wanting to invest in something that might disappear. I do not think it affects the portion of the fan base that would attend a game.

    If someone's a big enough fan that they'll go to a game, I think it's very unlikely the lease situation would affect that. For those types, it's wins and having something to be excited about.

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