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Thread: JT on 1380

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    JT on 1380

    http://www.stlsportsinsider.com/Bern...20022309-5.mp3

    Noted concerns about resigning Bartell. Wonders how huge deal would look to other players in lockerroom. Noted that Detroit and Denver are very interested in him (Bartell is originally from Detroit). Stated that talks should have been held in October or November for both Bartell & Atogwe. Price would have been significantly cheaper (at least for Bartell). Doesn't look like Pace or Holt are willing to restructure to open up cap room too. This whole situation is a mess! Both Detroit and Denver have a ton of cap room and can offer Bartell a top 5 contract. If he wants to stay in St. Louis offer him $7 million with $20 million guaranteed. If he is truly wants to stay he'll accept a reasonable (not overpriced) deal. GET THIS DONE ALREADY!


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    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: JT on 1380

    How other players in the locker room will react? What a bunch of crap. These guys are all professionals who want to get paid the most money that they can. I will tell you how they will react. They will be jealous, just like they are of the unproven rookies that come in every year and get paid more money than many pro bowlers.

    So what ? It will make no difference on the field. You cant justify letting talented guys go because other guys might get pissed off. Why should bartell take less to stay? Does that mean the rams only want guys who are willing to play for them for less than market?

    The rams had a choice to try and lock him up a year ago and didnt want to do it. They took the risk that the cap would go up and bartell would have a breakout year. Now they should pay the price. I dont see how lettting him go is going to help in the locker room since you are going to have to pay someone else to come in and play and that guy will want market also. The fact that teams may be willing to pony up very big money for bartell shows you that we arent the only ones that see him as very valuable.

    Players take less towards the ends of their careers to try and win a title. They dont take less on their first big contract to play with a team that has won 5 games total over two years. IF the rams want players to want to come to st louis, they need to build a winning culture and they arent going to do that by letting guys like pace and bartell leave.

    When you cut through all the political correctness and crap, the bottom line is that the rams are a team in transition with ownership that would like to sell the team and i am confident that makes them adverse to spending huge money on players. Thats just the way businesses operate. They really need to pay bartell what the guy in indy got.

    By the way, how do you think players in the locker room feel when they see ownership letting excellent hard working young players go so that they can keep more money in their pockets and not show a full commitment to winning. Is that better for morale?

    ramming speed to all

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    Last edited by general counsel; -02-23-2009 at 10:10 PM.


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    Re: JT on 1380

    Unfortunately I think a reduced price deal isn't going to keep him here. He knows he can get mega bucks on the market, and we have to offer him a very similar deal to keep him around. Whether or not it's favorable to our team and our financial situation is another question.

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    Re: JT on 1380

    Oh well..if Holt and Pace dont wanna restructure let em go..and if Bartell wants out, let him go too..if they aint with us, they must be against us..we'll make it without them..

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    Re: JT on 1380

    Is he really that good? I don't think he is.

    He's basically done very little prior to this past season.

    While this past season was by far his best it was nothing spectacular.

    I don't know, I just don't think he is a top 5 CB.

    The money being thrown around as of late in the NFL is SICK. The economy is in such a wreck and 100s of thousands have lost jobs. Yet professional athletes can demand and get more than ever?

    Sick !!




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    Re: JT on 1380

    I hear you loud and clear ferter about the economy in general. However, keep in mind that the money available is a function of the salary cap which is a function of total revenue.

    I am not saying bartell is a top 5 corner. I will say that when we drafted him, we knew he was a raw talent who needed experience. Well, he has improved dramatically and there is no reason to believe he wont continue to get better.

    Signing a guy to replace him is going to require an "overpayment" of a lesser guy. The bottom line is that a guy is worth what someone will pay. If we let this guy go, i dont see any evidence to suggest that there is a better way to spend the money. If he continues to improve, and there is no reason to believe that he wont at his age, he will be in the pro bowl. He is clearly an up and coming guy and by definition, since future contracts are based mostly on past performance, it seems like teams are frequently overpaying for aging stars whose best days are either behind them or certainly not in front of them. In bartells case, you have a guy who is just coming into his own.

    Bottom line to me. If spags likes this guy a lot, i sure hope money doesnt stand in the way. If its spags judgment that he is not that good, so be it and let him walk. I dont know enough (and neither does anyone else on this board) to make that professional personnel judgment. I just dont want to see us lose talented young guys that can be a core of the team in the future because ownership isnt willing to write the check.

    ramming speed to all

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    Re: JT on 1380

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    I hear you loud and clear ferter about the economy in general. However, keep in mind that the money available is a function of the salary cap which is a function of total revenue.

    I am not saying bartell is a top 5 corner. I will say that when we drafted him, we knew he was a raw talent who needed experience. Well, he has improved dramatically and there is no reason to believe he wont continue to get better.

    Signing a guy to replace him is going to require an "overpayment" of a lesser guy. The bottom line is that a guy is worth what someone will pay. If we let this guy go, i dont see any evidence to suggest that there is a better way to spend the money. If he continues to improve, and there is no reason to believe that he wont at his age, he will be in the pro bowl. He is clearly an up and coming guy and by definition, since future contracts are based mostly on past performance, it seems like teams are frequently overpaying for aging stars whose best days are either behind them or certainly not in front of them. In bartells case, you have a guy who is just coming into his own.

    Bottom line to me. If spags likes this guy a lot, i sure hope money doesnt stand in the way. If its spags judgment that he is not that good, so be it and let him walk. I dont know enough (and neither does anyone else on this board) to make that professional personnel judgment. I just dont want to see us lose talented young guys that can be a core of the team in the future because ownership isnt willing to write the check.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel

    couldn't agree more. excellent post. Our other options(just let go, replace with rookie or other player, sign another free agent) won't equal what we have for what we're paying.

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    Re: JT on 1380

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    Is he really that good? I don't think he is.

    He's basically done very little prior to this past season.

    While this past season was by far his best it was nothing spectacular.

    I don't know, I just don't think he is a top 5 CB.

    The money being thrown around as of late in the NFL is SICK. The economy is in such a wreck and 100s of thousands have lost jobs. Yet professional athletes can demand and get more than ever?

    Sick !!



    I can't believe I'm about to say this but I agree with Ferter. He was the best corner on a bad secondary. I don't think the guy is a top five corner in this league and I'm not sure he's top ten. I like him don't get me wrong but I would not break the bank for him. I see and understand what General is saying but do we really know for a fact he can't be replaced with a lesser valued guy? Was Bartell really that good? I think he played well but I also think he looked so much better than everyone else we had because everyone else was terrible. If Denver and Detroit want to overpay for him let them do it. I think we locked up the right guy in Atogwe because he makes plays and forces turnovers. Bartell has had one average to good season and now we are gonna shell out major jack to keep him??? Like I said I like the guy but not that much.
    Just Fix It

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    Re: JT on 1380

    This is a real bad situation, He isn't top 5 but he could get top 5 money on a cap strapped team. I think JT made a good point when he said we should have signed him in November. We were a mess back then, and that was probably unlikely, but look now this looking like a bad situation.

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    Re: JT on 1380

    we didnt lock up atogwe. We tagged him. We have him for one year. We couldnt reach a long term deal with him. There is no comparison in the value of a quality corner and a quality free safety. No knock on oj, but the corner is the much more valuable position.

    Again, we can all have our views on how good bartell is or isnt and how likely he is to improve. The point is that we should all let spags and billy d make that call as long as ownership doesnt stand in the way by locking up the bank

    ramming speed to all

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    Re: JT on 1380

    I would rather watch guys play with heart and no expectations... than some of these million dollar men that will never earn there saleries. At one time Adrian wilson was in the same position that Bartell is in and took less money to stay on a ****ty team because he was trying to build something

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    Re: JT on 1380

    As an organization the RAMS can't let players hold them hostage. If Bartell wants to play here he will find a happy medium with the RAMS. I will say with all the coaching changes by our RAMS there has to be alot of mixed emotions coming from our players. Of course we will never read or hear what the players are really feeling.

    The bottom line in my mind is that yes Bartell has improved but is he a game changer? Is he replaceable? What is he worth? If we don't get him signed who or whom can we rely on to replace him?

    Spags being a coach with a defensive background will be the ultimate judge and jury on Bartell.

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    Re: JT on 1380

    Get rid of Holt and Pace. They're greedy punks wanting $$$$$$ even if they're declining. How about building a winning team? Reconstruct your contracts and sign good players we need at other positions then build a winning team. Simple as that. If they don't want do do that, they're punks!
    :clanram: DIE HARD RAMS' FAN!

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    Re: JT on 1380

    I think it's time to trade Holt and Pace away...we need Bartell back.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Devaney, if you care about this team... fire the offensive coordinator!!!!

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    Re: JT on 1380

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser
    He was the best corner on a bad secondary.
    He had the lowest QB rating of any CB in the division. He was more than just the best corner on a bad secondary.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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