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  1. #1
    RamsSB99's Avatar
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    Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    Does Scott Linehan get not respect and will he get no respect if he turns the team around?

    In his first two years he:
    Resigned: Bulger, Bruce, Little, and Pisa.

    Signed: Witherspoon, Glover, Fakhir Brown, Draft, McMichael, Steussie, Turk, Donnie Jones, Chavous (better then Archuelleta and much cheaper), Bennett (At the time seemed like a good signing).

    In Linehans first season he did the following.
    1. Hired Haslett as his DC. Took guts to hire a HC like Haslett to be his DC.
    2. Called plays as was expected of him when he started along with being the HC.
    3. Decided he was not effective coaching and calling the plays. Turned the play calling over to his OC.
    4. Bulger had his best season ever under Linehan.
    5. Jackson had his best season ever under Linehan.
    6. Drafted two starters in Tye Hill and Setterstrom. Adyanju, Wrotten, and Klop where all perceived as good picks at the time. They have all started games but look like backups.
    7. Record improved from previous year. Was 6-10 improved to 8-8.

    Linehans second season:
    1. Fans where exicted about the team. Many thought they had improved their players and where headed in the right direction with the players.
    2. Draftees Carriker, Ryan, Leonard, and Stanley showed some promise. While Fry and Wade still have potential.
    3. Then injuries kept hitting the team only 6 of the 22 starters going into the season played in all 16 games.
    4. Linehan did not like what he saw either as evident by him taking over play calling from his OC. Even though it did not help at all it did show he was not affraid to change.
    5. Linehan fired his OC and OL coach after the season.
    6. He has vowed to hire an OC who will call the plays and said he would not be opposed to running a new system.

    Linehan has shown signs of mistakes however he has hired Haslett as the DC and if he hires a good OC, the team is healthy and they do good will he get any respect or will people just give all the credit to the OC he hired?

    Linehan was hired as the HC not OC. HC is his number one priority and he has said time and again he can't call the plays and be the HC. He tried and failed. Now will he get any credit for being a good HC if he hires a good OC and they turn this team around or will all the credit go to the OC he hires?
    Last edited by RamsSB99; -01-12-2008 at 04:18 PM.


  2. #2
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    Well, that's great and all, except the front office does the hiring and firing and the drafting. Linehan undoubtedly gets input, but Jay is the one that handles the extensions (if I'm not mistaken). He didn't hire Haslett, either. I would imagine he was probably asked in the interview process whether he would have a problem with it.

    The improvement in the record was following a season in which we had an interim head coach for 11 games. You're essentially comparing Linehan's record to Joe Vitt's, and Vitt wasn't even in the running for the head coaching job.

    In my opinion, Bulger had a good season but not his best in 2006. His stats per game were down from previous years. It really shouldn't be much of a surprise that he recorded career totals in his first season to play all 16 games. It wasn't like he was getting sacked less either. The only area he definitely improved on in 2006 was cutting down on interceptions.

    If Linehan is more successful next year, he will share in the credit along with those who are responsible. But here's the thing: if the front office takes away Linehan's final say on the draft because they feel he screwed it up, and he relinquishes his play-calling responsibilities because he couldn't handle those either, and he accepted a dominant defensive coordinator so he wouldn't have to take on so much responsibility in managing the defense, and then we're successful...what exactly would Linehan deserve credit for other than admitting his own inability to do the job effectively?

  3. #3
    MauiRam's Avatar
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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    No comarison .. Dangerfield has a long track record of being very good at his chosen career. Linny does not. If the question is: What would it take for Scott to redeem himself as a head coach, I can only guess. First off he'd need a hefty dose of phenomenal luck, at least an NFC West division title, and one convincing play-off win. And that is just for Ram fans around St. Louis. As far as respect from ClanRam members goes ..? Well I suppose on top of the aforementioned conditions, Linny would have to personally present Av and Tx with magical rose tinted sunglasses and a one year script for prozac .. As for me personally, a superbowl win would certainly cause me to view him as legit. But as of right now, if I had to choose between Dangerfield and Linehan as our head coach, I think I'd give the nod to Rodney, as at least after each loss, he'd be more entertaining than Scotty during the post game press conferences ...

  4. #4
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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    He's won 11 games in two years. What respect should he get?

  5. #5
    mdram's Avatar
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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    He was hired because zagnut and shaw did not want someone with a strong personality to challenge them like Martz did.
    He is a marshmellow and now that he has two losing seasons he gets no repect from the players.
    I soured on haslett toward the end of the year. I don't think he is the second coming either:\

  6. #6
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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdram View Post
    He was hired because zagnut and shaw did not want someone with a strong personality to challenge them like Martz did.
    He is a marshmellow and now that he has two losing seasons he gets no repect from the players.
    I soured on haslett toward the end of the year. I don't think he is the second coming either:\
    I soured on Haslett at some point last season. I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish exactly. Does he want to be aggressive and blitz consistantly or does he want to rush three and drop everyone else back in a soft zone. The second half of games have been a disaster under Haslett. Once teams make adjustments to his original gameplan, he doesn't know how to counter and this defense gets shredded almost the second half of every single game. With that being said, I would have to agree with what someone said earlier about Rodney Dangerfield being far more successful at his chosen profession than Linehan has been at his. Dangerfield just asts like a loser- Linehan has proven over two seasons with an 11-21 record that he's the real deal.

  7. #7
    RamsSB99's Avatar
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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece
    Well, that's great and all, except the front office does the hiring and firing and the drafting. Linehan undoubtedly gets input, but Jay is the one that handles the extensions (if I'm not mistaken). He didn't hire Haslett, either. I would imagine he was probably asked in the interview process whether he would have a problem with it.
    I think you are way off base he chose his own coaching staff. Many people make fun of him for having picked so many guys with ties to him. The HC is responsible for chosing his staff and he was responsible for chosing Haslett. Please show me where you can prove otherwise. I like how eveyone says they don't like his choices in coaches then turn around and say he don't chose them. Come on that sounds like he is being treated like Rodney Dangerfield. He gets no respect for picking good ones and all the blame for picking the bad ones.

    NFL DRAFT: Linehan might go for more offense
    Associated Press
    April 26, 2007

    Linehan, who had no head coaching experience at any level before his rookie season with the Rams, made the final call on draft day last year and will again have that responsibility. He gives the team an "excellent" grade for his first draft.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece
    The improvement in the record was following a season in which we had an interim head coach for 11 games. You're essentially comparing Linehan's record to Joe Vitt's, and Vitt wasn't even in the running for the head coaching job.
    See below talking about trying to improve the defense to be a more ballanced team. Also note the fact they have only had 1 wining season in the last five years coming into this year. Note Linehan took over a team in decline not a Superbowl team. His first year at 8-8 was an improvement over the previous year and it matched the last full year Martz coached. Martz was 2-3 by the way with the wins being by 4 and 5 points against teams that finished 4-12 and 5-11. What a power house of team huh.
    In recent years they've tried to balance out things without much success. Far removed from the glory years, St. Louis has had only one winning season in the last five. Update 6 now since this was a quote prior to this season. Linehan was only here for 2 of those that leaves 1 winning season in four years prior to him when Martz was HC. This team was headed in the wrong direction when Linehan took over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece
    In my opinion, Bulger had a good season but not his best in 2006.
    4300 yards
    24 TD's
    8 INT's
    1.4% INT ratio
    67 Long
    All are career bests for Bulger in 2006.


    Why did you not argue about Jackson not having his career year in 2006 under Linehan??:\


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece
    If Linehan is more successful next year, he will share in the credit along with those who are responsible. But here's the thing: if the front office takes away Linehan's final say on the draft because they feel he screwed it up,
    Didn't you say at the very begining of this thread that the front office does the drafting???:x


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece
    and he relinquishes his play-calling responsibilities because he couldn't handle those either,
    I believe he relinquished those on his own in 2006 and took them back over in the middle of 2007 because he did not trust his OC and now he has said he wants someone else to call the plays. He has said it is to dificult for him to call the plays and be the HC. He was hired as the HC and that is his number one priority. That is why he hired Olsen was to eventualy take over play calling but obviously he could not do it and now Linehan has said he would not be against a new scheme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece
    and he accepted a dominant defensive coordinator so he wouldn't have to take on so much responsibility in managing the defense,
    Again No Respect (Rodney Dangerfield). There is only one reason anyone would not hire a person who they think would be best for the job and be able to assume a lot of responsibility and that is because they are afraid they could take their job. Linehan was not afraid of that even though it could still happen. Several fans and media at the time even commented about such a new coach taking on an experienced HC with a dominant personality as his defensive coordinator.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece
    and then we're successful...what exactly would Linehan deserve credit for other than admitting his own inability to do the job effectively?
    If he hires all the coaches, has final say on the draft, and final say on the players and they become successful then he has done his job. Those are the responsibilities of the HC. How could he do all that and you still say he showed his inability to do his job.

    If all fans had your view point then I would say:

    Linehan is the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches.
    Last edited by RamsSB99; -01-13-2008 at 03:13 AM.

  8. #8
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    Okay, just to touch on a few points here:

    Linehan does currently have a significant say in the draft. The front office has stated that they have yet to outright tell the coach "no" if he has his heart set on a player. However, they have talked about changing that because they feel that giving the coach that power has been detrimental to the team. The front office has been talking about taking that power away from Linehan and give it to a full-time GM. So to summarize, the coach plays a role in the drafting along with the scouting department in the front office. It is a part of his job, but his main role is to coach the talent, not pick it. Furthermore, the front office seems to believe that his role in the drafting has had a negative effect. They would probably know better than we would, seeing as how they know exactly which suggestions he made (and we don't).

    With regards to the coaching staff: yes, he picked them, but what I'm saying is that he probably wouldn't have even been hired if he hadn't said he was willing to bring in a well established defensive coordinator and given him room to do his job.

    With regards to Bulger in 2006:
    He threw for an 268 yards/game, his lowest average since 2003.
    He averaged 7.3 yards/attempt, also his lowest since 2003.
    His quarterback rating was 92.7, the lowest it had been over the course of a season since 2003.
    He completed 62.9% of his passes, his lowest percentage for a season in his career.
    He was sacked an average 3.0625 times a game, down from 3.25 in 2005 but still more than 2002, 2003, or 2004.

    That's still a pretty good season. He cut down on the interceptions but threw more incompletions, and his completions were shorter gains.


    If I were going to come up with a list of things I'd expect the head coach to do, it would be something like this:

    1. Game planning - coming up with an overall strategy to beat the opponent; not necessarily play-calling during the game (although some do) but preparing a strategy before the game for how to attack the opponent's weaknesses. This includes preparing plays that the team thinks will work against the opponent.

    I would not consider this a strength of the Linehan regime. For example, the game plan against the Buccaneers was horrendous. It wasn't just that the individual plays were bad but the entire strategy was bad.

    2. Getting the most from his players - Motivation figures into this in terms of keeping the team on the same page, keeping the locker room on-board, maintaining a positive attitude and a good relationship with his players, but also getting together a solid coaching staff, etc.

    Presumably, this is where we would disagree. I feel that the coach needs to do more than just delegate responsibilities to other people. Bringing in qualified personnel is part of the job, but it seems like Linehan's leadership skills are lacking. Haslett is the one out there firing up the team before the games, and Linehan has had several incidents with the star players this year.

    And it's not like we're seeing tremendous strides from our offensive players either. The offensive line coach was fired allegedly because of the lack of progress on his line. If Linehan gets credit for the successes of his coaches, he also deserves part of the blame when they don't succeed. Our young tight ends aren't doing a lot for us, either.

    3. Game management - This ranges from decisions on whether to kick the field goal or go for the TD to clock management to in-game adjustments to challenges.

    This was Martz' biggest flaw, but it's not exactly a strength for Linehan either. On several occasions, he has mentioned in press conferences that if he could go back and do it again, he'd have made a different choice. Experience helps because the coach will learn what to do in various situations, but it's also a matter of judgment.

    4. General Preparation - The coach needs to decide when he will rest his players, what to train them to watch out for, how much contact they'll get in practice, and most importantly what they'll practice. A well-prepared team comes out well prepared for each week's opponent.

    Again this is something Linehan has been criticized for, specifically not getting the key players enough play time in the preseason.


    In conclusion, Linehan doesn't get any respect because he hasn't earned it. If he gets the team on the same page, comes out with clever plans to beat our opponents, and makes great gametime decisions and adjustments, I'll say he did his part. BUT the less he does personally, the less credit he gets. If we win more games because we have better offensive playcalling (when Linehan stays out of it) and better drafting (when Linehan stays out of it) but still struggle in all those areas Linehan is responsible for, then I'd expect him to fall under fire again.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    I don't have a big long response but here goes, at the end of the day it comes down to wins and losses,what you did to get them is often overlooked,because in the big picture it just doesn't matter to most,they want wins.

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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    Respect is earned, not given.

    2006 - Record: 8-8 - Team adjusting to his scheme. Understandable, improvements in various areas.

    2007 - Record: 3 -13 - No excuses. Worst case, with the injuries we should have been close to the same 8-8 record as before if not better.

    Combined record as a STL RAMS coach - 11 - 21. In two years his team has lost 2 out of every three games.

    He has earned no respect, YET...

    I am not saying he and this team can't earn it. The pieces have been in place. But at this point, shut up and do your job, cause 365 days from now you will be unemployed if things don't turn around.
    This space for rent...

  11. #11
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    Re: Is Linehan the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches?

    Yes. Linehan is the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches. Linehan rules. Martz is evil.
    "I'm not going to hide my opinions. They're coming to you between 7000-4000 Angstroms for all the world to see. Oh yes, you will be enlightened."

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