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Thread: Love him or hate him

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    Rambos's Avatar
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    Love him or hate him

    Here is a little tidbit that I came across reading JT chat.

    I miss Mike Martz:

    "Mad" Mike--56-36 as Rams head coach, 61% winning percentage. Rams since Martz's dismissal: 37-90-1, for a 29% winning percentage.
    I had to look up all the coaches just to see how this played out because I have locked it deep in my mind and threw away the key.

    Joe Vitt win %.364
    Scott Linehan win %.344
    Jim Haslett win %..166
    Steve Spagnuolo win %.208

    107 games and a winning %.252

    Jeff Fisher while completely over hauling the roster and playing with the youngest team in the NFL. Fisher %.453 feels good knowing where we just came from but it's still not close to the glory days of Martz and the show.


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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Why'd you have to go there?
    I still remember the cries that Martz didn't win ENOUGH.
    When Armey was removed from decision making and not replaced, the franchise was doomed.
    They didn't have a professional draft scout or a pro personnel scout to make decisions.

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Why'd you have to go there?
    I still remember the cries that Martz didn't win ENOUGH.
    When Armey was removed from decision making and not replaced, the franchise was doomed.
    They didn't have a professional draft scout or a pro personnel scout to make decisions.
    I know... just can't wait for some real news. Like with the first pick in 2014 the Rams take!

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Martz inherited 17-3 (really 18-2, they played for nothing against Philly) Super Bowl Champions coached by Dick Vermeil.

    The offensive talent held 'm on to 10-6 the following year and a one and out wildcard berth.

    Lovie Smith and Aeneas Williams helped'm bounce back the following year.

    Finally, Warner was put in the doghouse, and was extra-exposed to injury because Martz would rather draft the Trung Canidates and Eric Crouches than some offensive linemen.

    The guys who followed inherited Martz' draft picks and blunders.

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyhater View Post
    Martz inherited 17-3 (really 18-2, they played for nothing against Philly) Super Bowl Champions coached by Dick Vermeil.

    The offensive talent held 'm on to 10-6 the following year and a one and out wildcard berth.

    Lovie Smith and Aeneas Williams helped'm bounce back the following year.

    Finally, Warner was put in the doghouse, and was extra-exposed to injury because Martz would rather draft the Trung Canidates and Eric Crouches than some offensive linemen.

    The guys who followed inherited Martz' draft picks and blunders.
    I agree with a lot of what you said. But Martz was a big part of the 1999 team that he later inherited. Dick Vermeil was really close to being shown the door if he did not change his approach.

    That said Martz did get a great team to roll with and drove it hard and fast until the wheels fell off. But it was a hell of a ride!

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyhater View Post
    Martz inherited 17-3 (really 18-2, they played for nothing against Philly) Super Bowl Champions coached by Dick Vermeil.

    The offensive talent held 'm on to 10-6 the following year and a one and out wildcard berth.

    Lovie Smith and Aeneas Williams helped'm bounce back the following year.

    Finally, Warner was put in the doghouse, and was extra-exposed to injury because Martz would rather draft the Trung Canidates and Eric Crouches than some offensive linemen.

    The guys who followed inherited Martz' draft picks and blunders.
    Very nicely summed up. It's real easy to look at where we've been the last 10 years and wax poetic about how wonderful Mike Martz was by comparison. But truth be told, he had major deficiencies as a head coach- paid no mind to the importance of special teams, used timeouts carelessly and frivolously, gambled when it wasn't necessary ( he all but blew a game vs. Washington in the last 60 seconds passing the football inside the 5 when a field goal would've won it) and didn't exactly run a system that fostered good health in his starting QB. And anyone who says they didn't bellyache about one or multiple issues when Martz was head coach either has selective memory or isn't being honest with themselves.

    Mike Martz is to be given tremendous credit for running a dynamic and exciting offense as coordinator during our SB run. But let's not make him out to be Bill Walsh just because Spags, Linehan and two interim guys sucked.

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Mike Martz is to be given tremendous credit for running a dynamic and exciting offense as coordinator during our SB run. But let's not make him out to be Bill Walsh just because Spags, Linehan and two interim guys sucked.
    Great point. Martz was part of a perfect storm the created the GSOT and a Super Bowl win, but he was exposed in all of his subsequent OC jobs, being unceremoniously kicked to the curb in all three cases. Then there is the fact that no NFL team ever offered him a head coaching position, not one.

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Hate is awfully strong.

    Martz is partially responsible for the debacle than ensued in the next couple years. The organization as a whole suffered immensely.
    Fargo Ram Fan and RamsSB99 like this.
    Semper Fi!

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    NOT a Martz fan. He was a good OC at the time. However, his schemes were quickly figured out. I was extremely disappointed when Vermeil left (still think there was some shady dealing behind that). I never thought Martz had what it takes to be a HC. He proved that in spectacular form. We're still recovering.
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Let's not forget the 2001 draft. Three first round draft picks and we got Damione Lewis, Adam Archuleta, and Ryan Pickett. You'd think a team just one year removed from a super bowl win with three first rounders could build a powerhouse. Instead the first two flamed out in a hurry and Ryan Pickett left for GB where he has been a solid, but not spectacular, fixture on their DL. We passed one some little known guys named Marcus Stroud, Steve Hutchinson, Casey Hampton, and Reggie Wayne to select those three.

    Not that everything Martz did was bad, but he was trying his best to run the team into the ground too. However when you have Marshall Faulk, Kurt Warner, Orlando Pace, Torrey Holt and Isaac Bruce all at once, you aren't going to look too bad no matter what you do.
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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Say what you will, but.........no Martz, no Super Bowl ring.
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    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Say what you will, but.........no Martz, no Super Bowl ring.
    As a controlled OC by Dick Vermeil yes he was successful but still he himself says he pushed the buttons too hard even then. As a Head Coach some of the worst on field management of a team I have ever seen. Which explains as some pointed out why he has not and I would hope not been offered another head coaching job. Love what Wisenhunt was able to do with a disheartened Kurt Warner that Mikey thought was through. He was not a good evaluator of talent and his plays though sometimes brilliant cost Kurt and Mark Bulger their health on many occasions in waaaaaaay too many injuries! Mad Mike indeed! I will never forgive him for leaving Kurt in the game against the Giants when I could see on TV he was concussed multiple times! Unforgiveable... As an analyst and commentator I like him allot more and I love he admits his mistakes or at least some of them. As they were multifold in their dynamics!
    Last edited by Randart; -04-30-2014 at 10:03 PM.

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    I guess I'm in the minority but I really liked Martz in the organization. I think given a couple more yrs as OC he could have learned more about the management part of being a head coach from Vermeil.

    I am in agreement that there was something that smelled just a tad off with Vermeil giving up the reins after creating such a great team. I still wonder what the politics were in that. Maybe Martz himself was set up some how to make the team reach a downfall. HAHA, could make one heck of a conspiracy novel. :-)

    To Martz's credit, he admitted to his mishandling of Kurt Warner.

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    However when you have Marshall Faulk, Kurt Warner, Orlando Pace, Torrey Holt and Isaac Bruce all at once, you aren't going to look too bad no matter what you do.
    Yeah I think I could coach that team. I would tell the defense try to let the other team score every other time and then I will have the offense score every two out of three times. By the way not only did Vermeil build the Super Bowl winner in St. Louis that Martz was unable to win a Super Bowl with, he also went to KC where he led them to a 13-3 record in 2003. As many have said Martz inherited a talented team, helped dismantle it before departing, and left the Rams with a train wreck to cleanup. He never lasted long as an OC for other teams and never got a HC job elsewhere. Horrible head coach and had the dream weapons for any OC in the four HOF's Bruce, Holt, Pace, and Warner. Not to mention Proehl, Hakim, Horne, Timmerman, and others.
    Last edited by RamsSB99; -04-30-2014 at 10:43 PM.

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    Re: Love him or hate him

    How many OC and DC take over as Head Coaches throughout the league? Just about everyone! However, of those OCs/DCs make it to the level of elite head coaches...just look at the Rams for the last 10+ seasons.

    No one can argue that Martz was an Elite OC...sadly for the Rams few fans can say he was a great coach.

    Martz and just about every other OC/DC/HC, has an idea and are like mad scientists. It takes a strong and imaginative general manager or head coach to make the lost of their coaching staffs. Look no further then the Patriots. Had the Rams found another Vermeil, likely the Rams would have 2 more Super Bowl appearances

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