throwback week



Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 42
Like Tree51Likes

Thread: Love him or hate him

  1. #16
    berg8309's Avatar
    berg8309 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    1,899
    Rep Power
    42

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Here's the real question, how much would Martz have won had he stayed head coach and seen the talent depletion that the other coaches did? Let's not forget part of their problem was all the bad draft picks Martz made left the team with little talent when the GSOT team retired. Looking back through his drafts he had only a couple of solid picks, and the rest was just garbage. No wonder the team folded.


  2. #17
    RebelYell's Avatar
    RebelYell is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    St. Louis ,Missouri
    Posts
    2,411
    Rep Power
    45

    Re: Love him or hate him

    The Rams organization was one of the 2 worst in the league the 9 years before Martz arrived (tied with the Bengals I think at 45-99) and as soon as he left immediately returned to the same pattern (37-91?). While Martz was here they went to 3 NFC Championship games, 2 Superbowls and have a trophy because of it.

    Obviously, Martz was the problem.

    Oh and claiming Vermeil controlled Martz - have you heard the stories of Martz kicking Mike White out of offensive team meetings?

  3. #18
    mde8352gorams's Avatar
    mde8352gorams is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,842
    Rep Power
    22

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Say what you will, but.........no Martz, no Super Bowl ring.
    Excuse me HUb, but I don't recall winning a Super Bowl with Martz as HC. In fact, I place squarely on his shoulders the upset loss of Super Bowl XXXVI. When we are 14 point favorites and get beat by a first year starting QB, that is a poor job of coaching.

    Now if your post was intended to point to Super Bowl XXXIV, then I agree. What we saw was the Peter Principle for Mike Martz. Great as an OC, incompetent as a HC.

    Go Rams!
    Randart likes this.

  4. #19
    gap's Avatar
    gap
    gap is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,305
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Dragoon View Post
    Look no further then the Patriots. Had the Rams found another Vermeil, likely the Rams would have 2 more Super Bowl appearances
    Sorry, but I gotta squash this. I hate when people use the cheatroits as the "elite standard". They are far from it. VERY FEW teams get the benefit of having 7 extra players in black and white helping you win games, let alone the league ignoring all your illegal shenannigans to make it even easier to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Oh and claiming Vermeil controlled Martz - have you heard the stories of Martz kicking Mike White out of offensive team meetings?
    I highlighted your key word there. Martz didn't care about anything more than the offense. That is only 1/3 of the team, and why it was in such dismal shape when he left.

    Quote Originally Posted by mde8352gorams View Post
    Excuse me HUb, but I don't recall winning a Super Bowl with Martz as HC. In fact, I place squarely on his shoulders the upset loss of Super Bowl XXXVI. When we are 14 point favorites and get beat by a first year starting QB, that is a poor job of coaching.

    Now if your post was intended to point to Super Bowl XXXIV, then I agree. What we saw was the Peter Principle for Mike Martz. Great as an OC, incompetent as a HC.

    Go Rams!
    In a little defense of Martz here, he had a lot of help from the officials in losing this game. In defense of you, a good coach would have seen the biased officiating and adjusted their game to minimize its impact. Of course, I believe the officials would have tried harded to make sure the cheatroits won.

    Two things about that game. Technically, it ended before the final field goal because the officials stopped the game clock when a scrambling brady was tackled just short of the sidelines. If you accept that failure as a part of the game, there is still three seconds left in that game that the RAMS didn't get to play.


    gap

  5. #20
    laram0's Avatar
    laram0 is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Age
    57
    Posts
    9,312
    Rep Power
    109

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Here is a little tidbit that I came across reading JT chat.



    I had to look up all the coaches just to see how this played out because I have locked it deep in my mind and threw away the key.

    Joe Vitt win %.364
    Scott Linehan win %.344
    Jim Haslett win %..166
    Steve Spagnuolo win %.208

    107 games and a winning %.252

    Jeff Fisher while completely over hauling the roster and playing with the youngest team in the NFL. Fisher %.453 feels good knowing where we just came from but it's still not close to the glory days of Martz and the show.
    Fisher will get there....

  6. #21
    HUbison's Avatar
    HUbison is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Age
    40
    Posts
    13,706
    Rep Power
    145

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by mde8352gorams View Post
    Excuse me HUb, but I don't recall winning a Super Bowl with Martz as HC. In fact, I place squarely on his shoulders the upset loss of Super Bowl XXXVI. When we are 14 point favorites and get beat by a first year starting QB, that is a poor job of coaching.

    Now if your post was intended to point to Super Bowl XXXIV, then I agree. What we saw was the Peter Principle for Mike Martz. Great as an OC, incompetent as a HC.

    Go Rams!
    My intent was quite simple....

    ....if Mike Martz was not part of this team, this team would not have a Super Bowl trophy.


    As for SB36, you and everyone else was/were/are agitated at Martz for losing the Super Bowl though the Rams were 14 point favorites. But how exactly did they become 14 point favorites again?
    Last edited by HUbison; -05-01-2014 at 02:11 PM.
    ramsbruce likes this.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  7. #22
    RebelYell's Avatar
    RebelYell is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    St. Louis ,Missouri
    Posts
    2,411
    Rep Power
    45

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    As for SB36, you and everyone else was/were/are agitated at Martz for losing the Super Bowl though the Rams were 14 point favorites. But how exactly did they become 14 point favorites again?
    It's all in the way you look at it.
    Since firing Martz, the Rams haven't lost any more NFC Championship or Superbowl games. Problem successfully solved.
    HUbison and ramsbruce like this.

  8. #23
    HUbison's Avatar
    HUbison is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Age
    40
    Posts
    13,706
    Rep Power
    145

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    It's all in the way you look at it.
    Since firing Martz, the Rams haven't lost any more NFC Championship or Superbowl games. Problem successfully solved.
    Boom! THAT just happened.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  9. #24
    macrammer's Avatar
    macrammer is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Livermore, Ca/ Arnold,Ca
    Age
    55
    Posts
    2,319
    Rep Power
    31

    Re: Love him or hate him

    I have a dream..... That someday, the debate over who sucked the most as rams HC, will be in the DISTANT rear view mirror.

  10. #25
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
    r8rh8rmike is online now Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    29 Palms, Ca.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    12,065
    Rep Power
    131

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Say what you will, but.........no Martz, no Super Bowl ring.
    I don't think anyone disputes that, but IMO, you could make the same claim using Vermeil, Warner, or Faulk.

    The biggest problem with Mike Martz, was Mike Martz. He was simply a wacky, unstable egomaniac who couldn't stay on an even keel. His parting stamp on being the Rams HC, was trying to sneak a note with HIS plays into the upstairs booth, despite being told to not make contact with the team while he was on medical leave.

    Mike Martz is a classic example of an enigma.

  11. #26
    RealRam's Avatar
    RealRam is online now Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    8,576
    Rep Power
    68

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post

    Mike Martz is to be given tremendous credit for running a dynamic and exciting offense as coordinator during our SB run. But let's not make him out to be Bill Walsh just because Spags, Linehan and two interim guys sucked.
    Indeed, credit where credit is due ... only the amount due.

    Hey, I'm a Mike 'Madness' Martz partisan though I do criticize some of his mad moves. But I kind of miss the GSOT days that in great part were via Martz Airways.



    Wonder what MM would do with Bradford and the 2014 Rams offense. ...Yikes, don't go there.
    Last edited by RealRam; -05-01-2014 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Yikes

  12. #27
    Rambos's Avatar
    Rambos is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Cali
    Age
    50
    Posts
    9,574
    Rep Power
    75

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post

    Mike Martz is to be given tremendous credit for running a dynamic and exciting offense as coordinator during our SB run. But let's not make him out to be Bill Walsh just because Spags, Linehan and two interim guys sucked.
    I was showing what has followed not where he ranks in history but I did look it up and here is how he ranks with the great Rams coaches.

    Chuck Knox .778
    George Allen .728
    Mike Martz .623
    Ray Malavasi .547
    John Robinson .524

    But truth be told, he had major deficiencies as a head coach- paid no mind to the importance of special teams, used timeouts carelessly and frivolously, gambled when it wasn't necessary ( he all but blew a game vs. Washington in the last 60 seconds passing the football inside the 5 when a field goal would've won it) and didn't exactly run a system that fostered good health in his starting QB. And anyone who says they didn't bellyache about one or multiple issues when Martz was head coach either has selective memory or isn't being honest with themselves
    I have to say NJ for a fan that is always preaching no more excuses we need to win now, you seem to have plenty of negative things to say even when you look back at one of the Ram coaches that won more often then not. Sure he was a train wreck at times and shortsighted but the bottom line is he won a lot of games and took this team to the playoffs.

  13. #28
    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    new jersey
    Posts
    2,463
    Rep Power
    74

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I was showing what has followed not where he ranks in history but I did look it up and here is how he ranks with the great Rams coaches.

    Chuck Knox .778
    George Allen .728
    Mike Martz .623
    Ray Malavasi .547
    John Robinson .524



    I have to say NJ for a fan that is always preaching no more excuses we need to win now, you seem to have plenty of negative things to say even when you look back at one of the Ram coaches that won more often then not. Sure he was a train wreck at times and shortsighted but the bottom line is he won a lot of games and took this team to the playoffs.
    Completely disagree with you Rambos. I rightly gave Martz credit where it was due. I also took him to task in areas where it is overwhelmingly evident he came up way short. This isn't negative, it is an honest assessment of what I witnessed during his tenure as head coach. He was the beneficiary of having had tremendous talent and screwed it up with bad drafts, bad coaching and off the field nonsense with both players and front office people. That he has had very little career since his days as the Rams' front man tells you all you really need to know.

    Bill Parcells had a career winning percentage of .570. Does this mean Mike Martz was a better head coach? Statistics can mean what you want them to mean. Dick Vermeil's winning % as Rams head coach was poor, but is 10 x the coach Mike Martz ever was.

    Again, I reiterate: Just because we have not been successful this decade doesn't mean Mike Martz was a great coach. He wasn't- not by a long shot. And if he were, teams would've been lining up to hire him over the past 10 years.
    Last edited by NJ Ramsfan1; -05-01-2014 at 06:18 PM.
    Randart likes this.

  14. #29
    Rambos's Avatar
    Rambos is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Cali
    Age
    50
    Posts
    9,574
    Rep Power
    75

    Re: Love him or hate him

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Completely disagree with you Rambos. I rightly gave Martz credit where it was due. I also took him to task in areas where it is overwhelmingly evident he came up way short. This isn't negative, it is an honest assessment of what I witnessed during his tenure as head coach. He was the beneficiary of having had tremendous talent and screwed it up with bad drafts, bad coaching and off the field nonsense with both players and front office people. That he has had very little career since his days as the Rams' front man tells you all you really need to know.

    Bill Parcells had a career winning percentage of .570. Does this mean Mike Martz was a better head coach? Statistics can mean what you want them to mean. Dick Vermeil's winning % as Rams head coach was poor, but is 10 x the coach Mike Martz ever was.

    Again, I reiterate: Just because we have not been successful this decade doesn't mean Mike Martz was a great coach. He wasn't- not by a long shot. And if he were, teams would've been lining up to hire him over the past 10 years.
    Fair enough.

    For the record I'm not saying he was a great head coach, just that he had one of the best winning records this team has ever had. I'm also not saying he put the team together. That said I'm not sure he was the one making all the picks during the draft or deciding to not to resign players. I have seen him say on NFL Films that he learned the Rams did not resign London Fletcher when he wanted to resign him badly.

    The whole FO IMO was a mess during these times and he was a part of the circus. I also think his ego got in the way and he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and he burnt some bridges during his time as the Rams HC and that may have carried over after he was done here.

  15. #30
    kman is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    new jersey
    Posts
    311
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Love him or hate him

    man, I forgot about haslett..I tell ya, I was really hoping for him to do well, but didn't pan out..i remember the players playing hard for him though..

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Rams: Love and hate ..
    By MauiRam in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: -08-09-2010, 10:39 PM
  2. The Players You Love To Hate
    By RamsFanSam in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: -06-10-2007, 12:28 PM
  3. A love/hate relationship
    By RamWraith in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: -09-10-2006, 11:53 PM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: -01-10-2005, 03:04 PM
  5. A love/hate relationship
    By RamWraith in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: -10-21-2004, 01:24 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •