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  1. #1
    moloch41's Avatar
    moloch41 is offline Registered User
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    "Lovie-Type Players"

    Now, anyone that knows me knows that I'm not a fan of lovie smith. I really think this guy killed our defense for years- even after he had already left. I hated his philosophy of "Let them catch the ball, swarm, and then try to strip it"- it's a bad way to run a defense. If players are holding onto the ball correctly, it's hard to do that and you're just giving up tons of field position. I especially despised his semi-prevent that he ran against the Pats in the Superbowl, which allowed Tom Brady to march downfield and get his team in position to kick the winning FG. I think smith was the only guy in the stadium that didn't know that the Pats weren't going to sit on the ball and go into overtime with the Rams having all the momentum. And I love that he got rid of the aggresive playcalling of Ron Rivera this offseason and now the Bears defense is floundering under him and his lapdog Babich. All they know is the Cover 2 and that's it. I think smith is a guy that is living off the success of Monty Kiffin in Tampa. Everyone talked about what a wonderful job lovie did with that great Tampa defense, but all he was was the linebackers coach. That's like giving a WR coach credit for the offensive playcalling. He also lived off the success of Ron Rivera- who very rarely implemented the Cover 2 in his gameplans.

    But the thing I hated about him most of all- and what turned this defense into a laughing stock- was his evaluation of players on defense. Look at all the free agent signings and draft picks taken while he was here. There's only one guy left from that motley crew and that's Pisa, who the jury is still out on. Every other guy was a bust for us. He somehow convinced Martz and the front office that the guys we had weren't a fit for his defensive philosophy and in order to do that- he would need "lovie-type players"- which loosely translate to fast, undersized, and lacking the ability to tackle, cover, or pressure the passer. I think the Bears were smart enough not to allow smith a lot of say in the drafting process- that lies with the GM there, but they apparently listened to him enough to bring in one of the most overrated DBs in NFL history in the form of Adam Archuleta. He was brought in to "Shore up the run defense"- which has fallen sharply this year for the Bears and is always a gigantic liability in pass coverage. And it's not like smith didn't have a lot to work with- many of those high draft picks were used on defense. Let's take a look at his "lovie-type players"


    Jamie Duncan- perhaps the greatest bust of them all. This guy was a barely servicable special teams player, but smith insisted that he would be a better player than London Fletcher and come much cheaper. In terms of production, he was a tremendous rip off and we never recovered from the loss of Fletcher until we got Spoon.

    Kim Herring- did this guy ever do anything for us except eat up the salary cap?


    Now for the draft choices...


    Jerametrius Butler- might have been a decent player if not for the injuries- don't know

    Brian Allen- Who?

    Tommy Polley- semi-decent player- never lived up to second round potential

    Ryan Pickett- probably the best player drafted under smith, but was let go to make room for Jimmy Kennedy.

    Adam Archuleta- took a lot of bad angles to the ball, missed a ton of tackles, had hands of stone, couldn't cover his grandmother, and got hurt a lot. Besides that, he was a good player.

    Damione Lewis- never a good DT. Played OK at DE.

    Travis Fisher- never realized that you didn't have to give WR's a 17 yd cushion.

    Robert Thomas- this guy was supposed to make up for the Jamie Duncan fiasco, but failed miserably. Before that he was on the outside, where he also failed miserably.

    Scott Shanle- failed a steriod test and was released

    Kevin Garrett- nuff said

    Shane Walton- I would say, "nuff said", but I don't even remember him being drafted

    DeJuan Groce- special teams player, who got promoted because of injuries. Didn't make the most of his opportunity.

    Pisa Tinoisamoa- jury is still out. Seemed to be playing well before he got hurt, but he's very inconsistant overall.

    Jimmy Kennedy- the biggest bust of them all. He's not even playing right now. The Bronco's mercifully traded for him this offseason and then promptly cut him before the season started. He's been in to work out for a bunch of teams, but no one has bitten. Maybe he's spending his down time with Freddie "The People's Champ" Mitchell.


    And like I said, lovie jettisoned Ron Rivera's aggressive style in favor of his unimaginative Cover 2 and now the Bears defensive numbers are down across the board. The only thing he has acheived is exposing how awful the Bears offense really is. When your defense isn't getting turnovers and forcing great field position, you are vulnerable and that's exactly what's happened.

    And that is why I hate lovie smith. I know many on here with disagree with me vigorously, but I think the facts speak for themselves. Yes, we improved his first year here, but it was hard not to. After that- when the lovie-type players started coming in, we dropped from like 4th to 15th and the nightmare continued under the same Cover 2 philosophy of one larry marmie.
    Last edited by moloch41; -12-04-2007 at 03:44 PM.


  2. #2
    RAMarkable is offline Registered User
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    Re: "Lovie-Type Players"

    Quote Originally Posted by moloch41 View Post
    Now, anyone that knows me knows that I'm not a fan of lovie smith. I really think this guy killed our defense for years- even after he had already left. I hated his philosophy of "Let them catch the ball, swarm, and then try to strip it"- it's a bad way to run a defense. If players are holding onto the ball correctly, it's hard to do that and you're just giving up tons of field position. I especially despised his semi-prevent that he ran against the Pats in the Superbowl, which allowed Tom Brady to march downfield and get his team in position to kick the winning FG. I think smith was the only guy in the stadium that didn't know that the Pats weren't going to sit on the ball and go into overtime with the Rams having all the momentum. And I love that he got rid of the aggresive playcalling of Ron Rivera this offseason and now the Bears defense is floundering under him and his lapdog Babich. All they know is the Cover 2 and that's it. I think smith is a guy that is living off the success of Monty Kiffin in Tampa. Everyone talked about what a wonderful job lovie did with that great Tampa defense, but all he was was the linebackers coach. That's like giving a WR coach credit for the offensive playcalling. He also lived off the success of Ron Rivera- who very rarely implemented the Cover 2 in his gameplans.

    But the thing I hated about him most of all- and what turned this defense into a laughing stock- was his evaluation of players on defense. Look at all the free agent signings and draft picks taken while he was here. There's only one guy left from that motley crew and that's Pisa, who the jury is still out on. Every other guy was a bust for us. He somehow convinced Martz and the front office that the guys we had weren't a fit for his defensive philosophy and in order to do that- he would need "lovie-type players"- which loosely translate to fast, undersized, and lacking the ability to tackle, cover, or pressure the passer. I think the Bears were smart enough not to allow smith a lot of say in the drafting process- that lies with the GM there, but they apparently listened to him enough to bring in one of the most overrated DBs in NFL history in the form of Adam Archuleta. He was brought in to "Shore up the run defense"- which has fallen sharply this year for the Bears and is always a gigantic liability in pass coverage. And it's not like smith didn't have a lot to work with- many of those high draft picks were used on defense. Let's take a look at his "lovie-type players"


    Jamie Duncan- perhaps the greatest bust of them all. This guy was a barely servicable special teams player, but smith insisted that he would be a better player than London Fletcher and come much cheaper. In terms of production, he was a tremendous rip off and we never recovered from the loss of Fletcher until we got Spoon.

    Kim Herring- did this guy ever do anything for us except eat up the salary cap?


    Now for the draft choices...


    Jerametrius Butler- might have been a decent player if not for the injuries- don't know

    Brian Allen- Who?

    Tommy Polley- semi-decent player- never lived up to second round potential

    Ryan Pickett- probably the best player drafted under smith, but was let go to make room for Jimmy Kennedy.

    Adam Archuleta- took a lot of bad angles to the ball, missed a ton of tackles, had hands of stone, couldn't cover his grandmother, and got hurt a lot. Besides that, he was a good player.

    Damione Lewis- never a good DT. Played OK at DE.

    Travis Fisher- never realized that you didn't have to give WR's a 17 yd cushion.

    Robert Thomas- this guy was supposed to make up for the Jamie Duncan fiasco, but failed miserably. Before that he was on the outside, where he also failed miserably.

    Scott Shanle- failed a steriod test and was released

    Kevin Garrett- nuff said

    Shane Walton- I would say, "nuff said", but I don't even remember him being drafted

    DeJuan Groce- special teams player, who got promoted because of injuries. Didn't make the most of his opportunity.

    Pisa Tinoisamoa- jury is still out. Seemed to be playing well before he got hurt, but he's very inconsistant overall.

    Jimmy Kennedy- the biggest bust of them all. He's not even playing right now. The Bronco's mercifully traded for him this offseason and then promptly cut him before the season started. He's been in to work out for a bunch of teams, but no one has bitten. Maybe he's spending his down time with Freddie "The People's Champ" Mitchell.


    And like I said, lovie jettisoned Ron Rivera's aggressive style in favor of his unimaginative Cover 2 and now the Bears defensive numbers are down across the board. The only thing he has acheived is exposing how awful the Bears offense really is. When your defense isn't getting turnovers and forcing great field position, you are vulnerable and that's exactly what's happened.

    And that is why I hate lovie smith. I know many on here with disagree with me vigorously, but I think the facts speak for themselves. Yes, we improved his first year here, but it was hard not to. After that- when the lovie-type players started coming in, we dropped from like 4th to 15th and the nightmare continued under the same Cover 2 philosophy of one larry marmie.
    Thank you for your insightful comments. I, too, have been thinking the same thing for years, but didn't have the time to do as an exhaustive post like you just did. And, as a matter of fact, one of my first thoughts when Smith took the Bears job was that if he was involved in the drafting process then he is going to run that team in the ground. Imagine my surprise when the Bears won the NFC last year; however, your assertions about Ron Rivera look to be spot on. And this would explain the Lovester's unexpected success (well that and a guy named Hester). Sigh, I can only dream what would have been had we drafted Casey Hampton or Marcus Stoud over D. Lew or Shaun Rogers over Tommy Polley or...or...well you get the idea.

    BTW just what does Moloch stand for? I mean I have an idea, but I'll let you speak for yourself.

    WHAT SAY YE?

  3. #3
    moloch41's Avatar
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    Re: "Lovie-Type Players"

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    BTW just what does Moloch stand for? I mean I have an idea, but I'll let you speak for yourself.

    WHAT SAY YE?

    It doesn't stand for anything- well, the 41 is for Todd Lyght who's my favorite player, but the rest doesn't. Years back, when I was trying to think of a screen name for my first dial up ISP, it just popped in my head. At first I thought I had gotten it from that Anne Rice book, but that was Memnoch the Devil. When I looked it up, this is what I found...


    Moloch, sometimes Ba'al Moloch, known as the Sacred Bull, was widely worshipped in the ancient Near East and wherever Punic culture extended (including, but not limited to, the Ammonites, Edomites and the Moabites). Baal Moloch was conceived under the form of a calf or an ox or depicted as a man with the head of a bull.
    Hadad, Baal or simply the King identified the god within his cult. The name Moloch is the name he was known by among his worshippers, but is a Hebrew translation. (MLK has been found on stele at the infant necropolis in Carthage). The written form Μολώχ Moloch (in the Septuagint Greek translation of the Old Testament), or Molech (Hebrew), is no different than the word Melech or king, transformed by interposing the vowels of bosheth or 'shameful thing'.[citation needed]
    He is sometimes also called Milcom in the Old Testament (1 Kings 11:5, 1 Kings 11:33, 2 Kings 23:13 and Zephaniah 1:5)

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