Marc Bulger

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So Bulger's right in line with these QBs. They all average within percentage points of 1 and 1/2 TDs per game started.

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I don't agree with a ton of your stuff but I gave you credit for at least exhibiting some intelligence. TD/Game? You don't have any idea about statistics do you? Look up TD/attempt and then get back to me.

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and you can't get over the fact that he replaced your hero, Kurt Warner.

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Didn't I already say that about 4 pages ago?

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Would someone (moklerman) please take the time to rank all 32, please?

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No thanks. Way too much work for the amount of crap I'll get for not ranking Bulger as high as so-and-so. Let's just say Bulger's #3 so everyone can feel happy. Hell, just put him at #1 since he'd do just as good as Brady or Manning if he was on the Patriots or Colts.

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It took me a second to get this, but obviously I'm on board!

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What's it mean?

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Watch it, Mok's libel to argue that Hanson wasn't annoying.

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No one else liked that song they did? The first couple of thousand times I heard it on the radio it was pretty toe tapping. Got kinda old after that. Of course, I had to think for a minute who Hanson was. I got them confused with Nelson there for a minute. Thankfully, I can say that I don't know even one of Nelson's songs.

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Originally Posted by moklerman

Look up TD/attempt and then get back to me.

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Why is that necessarily a better measure of a QB's performance than TDs/start? Never mind, because I ran those numbers as well, and they look like this:

Name/Attempts/TDs/TDs per attempt

B.Roethlisberger 1,436/84/.058
D.McNabb 3,732/171/.046
D.Rivers 950/44/.046
M.Hasselbeck 3,138/142/.045
D.Brees 3,015/134/.044
M.Bulger 2,484/106/.043
E.Manning 1,805/77/.043

So, again, apart from Roethlisberger, who is far ahead of the group, everyone is within .003 of the same number. That's a difference between throwing a TD pass every 23.4 attempts vs. every 21.8 attempts.

Hardly a significant black mark on Bulger.

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So, again, apart from Roethlisberger, who is far ahead of the group, everyone is within .003 of the same number.

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I'm not sure what your point is. I already said that I think Bulger is a 2nd tier QB. Right in that pack of QB's that you listed.

The reason you have to use stat/attempt is because each QB throws a different number of passes per game.

Would it have been more tolerable if I'd used Eli Manning or Philip Rivers when comparing Bulger to other QB's? I don't have a low opinion of Pennington or Griese. Not a high one, but not low.

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Originally Posted by moklerman

No thanks. Way too much work for the amount of crap I'll get for not ranking Bulger as high as so-and-so. Let's just say Bulger's #3 so everyone can feel happy. Hell, just put him at #1 since he'd do just as good as Brady or Manning if he was on the Patriots or Colts.

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I'm not looking for Bulger to be ranked #1 or even in the top 3. However he is certainly in the top 10.

Well above the middle of the pack.

Well, you could put up your list first...I'll show you mine, if you show me yours.

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Originally Posted by moklerman

Would it have been more tolerable if I'd used Eli Manning or Philip Rivers when comparing Bulger to other QB's? I don't have a low opinion of Pennington or Griese. Not a high one, but not low.

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Oh, please. You compared him to Pennington, who is fighting for his job, and Griese, who is a journeyman. Those guys are third tier QBs.

The players I compare him to are four players who have made a Super Bowl (two who have won it all), and two others who have lead their team to the playoffs. Bulger is comparable to all of them, so why do we need to talk about the QB position like its a problem?

If you just admitted that you don't like Bulger and that your opinion is largely subjective, nobody would have an issue with you. Instead, you come up with these arbitrary criticisms (which are largely inaccurate or, at least, overstated) and pretend you're being objective.

Anyone who didn't see through you before hopefully will now.

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Originally Posted by moklerman

Well, you could put up your list first...I'll show you mine, if you show me yours.

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My point is that we should feel fortunate to have a top 10 quarterback.

I wonder what fans from other teams would say?

Bears fans?
Whiner fans?
Jets fans?
Dolphins fans?
Ravens fans?
Redskins fans?
Chiefs fans?
Texans fans?
Falcons fans?
etc., etc., etc......

P. Manning
C. Palmer
T. Brady
K. Warner
D. Brees
B. Roethlisberger
T. Romo
M. Hasslebeck


Those are my top 8 known commodities at QB. If I had to start a team, those guys are the one's I would go with for immediate success and 2-3 years of production.

There are a few guys that I would take a shot on but they're too much of an unknown at this point if I had to make a choice:

Schaub
Garrard
Cutler
Anderson

Some guys just get injured so much you can't rely on them for your team when you weigh the production vs. the risk:

Pennington
Bulger
McNabb
Warner(should probably be on the list but this is MY team :) )

Warner (currently #2 on the Cardinal's depth chart) is the fourth best QB in football?!?!?!

I think that says it all.

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Bears fans? Agreed.
Whiner fans? Too hard for me to call with their horrific offense the last few years. Part of that is due to QB but a much bigger part is his youth, supporting cast and most importantly, scheme.
Jets fans? They already have an injury prone QB that's pretty much established what his ceiling is. There is hope for Clemens but a new QB will probably be in the plans for '09. Maybe sooner if they indeed get Favre.
Dolphins fans? Agreed. I'm not high on McCown or Beck and Henne isn't anything at this point.
Ravens fans? Agreed but they get a fresh start this year with Harbaugh as coach and drafting Flacco. Doubt they'd want Bulger at this moment.
Redskins fans? I'm not a Campbell fan but he's still young and probably gets the benefit of doubt from their fans. Collins playing so well in his absence had to create doubt though. Not sure they'd take Bulger over what Campbell might some day provide.
Chiefs fans? This one's hard for me to say. They already had Green, who I think was at the very least Bulger's equal and they got rid of him. The fans didn't, but I don't know how they felt about Green so I don't know. I would take Bulger over Croyle and Huard though. I wouldn't wish Herm Edwards' offense on any QB though.
Texans fans? I think they'd prefer Schaub and Rosenfels.
Falcons fans? Before '07? I'd agree. At this point, they have a shiny new proto-hype QB in Matt Ryan and Redman really playing well to end last year. Doubt they'd switch.
etc., etc., etc......

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All of this still makes me think that, for obvious reasons, Rams fans probably think more of Bulger than they should. It seems unrealistic to me, that 40%-60% of the league would want Bulger. An injury prone, 2nd tier QB is not that difficult to find. That's why the Huard's, Rosenfell's, McNown's, etc. of the world keep getting jobs. Teams would rather take a chance on those guys, for a LOT less money. I suppose we'll find out if Bulger ever hits the market.

Roman Gabriel, Vince Ferragamo, Jim Everett, Kurt Warner...and Bulger's the guy that has the best shot at retiring as a Ram.

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Originally Posted by moklerman

Roman Gabriel, Vince Ferragamo, Jim Everett, Kurt Warner...and Bulger's the guy that has the best shot at retiring as a Ram.

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Ferragamo? You mean the career 76 td passes to 91 interceptions Ferragamo?

The 11,336 carrer passing yards and 70.1 qb rating Ferragamo?

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Oh, please. You compared him to Pennington, who is fighting for his job, and Griese, who is a journeyman.

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Just because Bulger has the luxury of NEVER being in jeopardy of losing his job doesn't mean other QB's don't have to stay healthy and continue to play well. Pennington's shoulder and recent health concerns are what threaten his job. His shoulder was obviously less than 100% last year and if he doesn't show some regained arm strength, he'll lose his job. Most teams will eventually make a change for change sake. Pennington's been to 5 playoff games in his career.

Quick question: AFC East or NFC West? Which one's tougher to face as a QB?

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The players I compare him to are four players who have made a Super Bowl (two who have won it all), and two others who have lead their team to the playoffs. Bulger is comparable to all of them, so why do we need to talk about the QB position like its a problem?

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First, he compares to 3 of them if you're counting Big Ben. Bulger and Roethisberger are not equals. Second, I've never said that the Rams have a problem at QB or need to make a change right now.

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If you just admitted that you don't like Bulger and that your opinion is largely subjective, nobody would have an issue with you. Instead, you come up with these arbitrary criticisms (which are largely inaccurate or, at least, overstated) and pretend you're being objective.

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I have, it is and how is feeling that Bulger needs to improve his TD% arbitrary or inaccurate. He is exactly at Pennington's level in that regard and Pennington's fighting for his job. Historically, Bulger is always in that low to middle 4% range and I think he will need to do better than that for the current Rams to get to or advance in the playoffs. That doesn't seem hyper-critical to me.

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Warner (currently #2 on the Cardinal's depth chart) is the fourth best QB in football?!?!?!
I think that says it all.

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To me, yes. '04-'06, no. Right now that's right where I'd take him and predict his production to be if he so far outplays Leinart that the Cardinals are forced to start him. At this early stage of camp, nothing has changed from last year. Warner looks far better but that probably won't really matter when it comes to who starts. He was top 10 in YPA, TD% and passer rating playing in a new system with a dislocated elbow last year so I would predict better numbers this year if he gets the chance to play.

Dudes! your'e trying to convince molkerman that bulger is a qb worth having??

save that energy!!!

He aint keen on bulger.

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Ferragamo? You mean the career 76 td passes to 91 interceptions Ferragamo?

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I also mean the 7 playoff appearance, Super Bowl starting, 30 TD's in 404 attempts Ferragamo. I'd take him over Bulger. I'd certainly like to see how his career might have gone if the Rams had committed to him as unconditionally as they have to Bulger.

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Dudes! your'e trying to convince molkerman that bulger is a qb worth having??

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Bulger is fine. He isn't a problem and not a position that I think the Rams need to address. But he does need to produce more TD's and stay healthy. Why is that so blasphemous?