Marc Bulger

[r8rh8rmike]

How exactly is Bulger so clearly better than Pennington again?

In overall numbers, in physical toughness and in mental toughness.

Culpepper, Favre, Hasslebeck and McNabb were all voted in ahead of him and he really shouldn't have been there. He got a free ticket because the other guys didn't want to/couldn't play. He wasn't top 10 in passer rating or TD's but led the league in interceptions in only 15 games. He earned his pro bowl spot in '06 but not in '03.

He was named to the Pro Bowl, bottom line. You may not think he deserved it, but it's on his resume.

He doesn't in passer rating or accuracy. They're tied in TD% and YPA, Pennington's got a lower INT%. Bulger's thrown 14 more TD's but in 500 more attempts. I'm not seeing the overwhelming domination unless you're talking about attempts per game.

I was hoping we could avoid this, but here you go, All-Time NFL passing category rankings:

Passes Completed - Bulger 84th, Pennington 115th

Pass Attempts - Bulger 102nd, Pennington 127th

Passing Yards - Bulger 93rd, Pennington 127th

Passing TD's - Bulger 101st, Pennington 128th

Passer Rating - Bulger 10th, Pennington 9th

Passes Intercepted - Bulger 144th, Pennington 186th

Pass Yrds/Game - Bulger 2nd, Pennington 34th

Yds/Pass Attempt - Bulger 19th, Pennington 45th

Yds/Pass Completion - Bulger 157th, Pennington 203rd

Pass Attempts/Game - Bulger 2nd, Pennington 43rd

Adj Yds/Pass Attempt - Bulger 11th, Pennington 20th

Net Yds/Pass Attempt - Bulger 23rd, Pennington 29th

Adj Net Yds/Pass Attempt - Bulger 18th, Pennington 20th

Passes Completed/Game - Bulger 1st, Pennington 16th

Pass Completion % - Bulger 8th, Pennington 1st

Pass Int % - Bulger 24th, Pennington 21st

Passing TD % - Bulger 90th, Pennington 90th

Looks pretty dominant to me.

Boy, you certainly saw different games than I did. Each of those games were horrible offensive efforts, especially on Bulger's part. We are talking about the same game where Martz was going to bench him and Warner talked him out of it? Giving Bulger credit for that Baltimore game? Man, talk about a forgiving fan. Now that you bring it up, that was the era of "stat's don't matter, he just wins" wasn't it? 1 TD and 6 INT vs. Baltimore and Arizona but those are somehow "Bulger comebacks"? Talk about a misleading stat.

For Bulger to suffer through bad games for 3 quarters and then pull himself together in the 4th to lead comeback victories shows the ability to handle pressure and adversity. Spin it anyway you want, but it's a desirable attribute. How many 4th quarter comebacks does your golden boy Pennington have?

[moklerman]

How about Pro Bowl MVP!!!...Does that mean anything to you????

It means just a little less than preseason stat's. I don't put much stock in a game where the defense isn't even allowed to blitz...among other things.

In overall numbers, in physical toughness and in mental toughness.

I don't know how to more clearly present that their per game and per attempt numbers are so similar. Bulger throws a LOT more than Pennington so the overall totals are in his favor but I don't place a value on pass attempts(or completions or anything else that stems from having so many attempts)when making a comparison of this kind. I would appreciate knowing how you've figured out how to measure physical and mental toughness. The fact that you are using physical toughness to describe Bulger makes me wonder if you're particularly objective on the subject. Yes, I realize Bulger gutted it out last year but what was the end result? Horrible season for him as well as the team. If we just look at the numbers it was apparent that Bulger shouldn't have been on the field last year.

He was named to the Pro Bowl, bottom line. You may not think he deserved it, but it's on his resume.

Well, that's my problem with it. He was "named" to the Pro Bowl. Earning it is much different than just being a young QB that they knew wouldn't decline the invitation(like the vet's ahead of him who had been voted in). I never questioned that he showed up, but I think it's very debatable that he earned it.

I was hoping we could avoid this, but here you go, All-Time NFL passing category rankings:

Again, I'm sorry you value statistics in a way that is...well, meaningless. I've tried and tried to explain how to look at the numbers in way that more accurately depicts how a QB is performing(it's not the whole picture but when discussing the statistical aspect it is). Of course Bulger is gong to have more overall completions, TD's, yards, etc. He has 500 more attempts than Pennington. Bulger is #2 alltime in attempts per game. He throws it a LOT. My criticism of his game is that he doesn't get the TD production to go along with all of those attempts. I've said that over and over and there isn't anything on that list of all-time stat's that shows any different.
Passes Completed - Bulger 84th, Pennington 115th

Pass Attempts - Bulger 102nd, Pennington 127th

Passing Yards - Bulger 93rd, Pennington 127th

Passing TD's - Bulger 101st, Pennington 128th

Passer Rating - Bulger 10th, Pennington 9th

Passes Intercepted - Bulger 144th, Pennington 186th

Pass Yrds/Game - Bulger 2nd, Pennington 34th

Yds/Pass Attempt - Bulger 19th, Pennington 45th(7.5 to 7.2. Very different in ranking but let's be real.)

Yds/Pass Completion - Bulger 157th, Pennington 203rd

Pass Attempts/Game - Bulger 2nd, Pennington 43rd

Adj Yds/Pass Attempt - Bulger 11th, Pennington 20th

Net Yds/Pass Attempt - Bulger 23rd, Pennington 29th

Adj Net Yds/Pass Attempt - Bulger 18th, Pennington 20th

Passes Completed/Game - Bulger 1st, Pennington 16th

Pass Completion % - Bulger 8th, Pennington 1st

Pass Int % - Bulger 24th, Pennington 21st

Passing TD % - Bulger 90th, Pennington 90th

In all of the categories where "attempts" aren't the basis, Pennington is very comparable or leading. I'm still surprised that things like Adj Net Yds/Pass Attempt are something you seem to value more than completion % or passer rating.

For Bulger to suffer through bad games for 3 quarters and then pull himself together in the 4th to lead comeback victories shows the ability to handle pressure and adversity.

I just don't think, for example, you remember the Baltimore game very clearly. I think it's much more honest to say that the team won in spite of very poor QB play. A "comeback win" vs. the mighty 2003 Cardinals defense? The stuff of legend. When Montana threw 3 picks vs. a really good Dallas team in the playoffs and then made an historic last second throw...that's noteworthy.

Let's see, Bulger in the 4th quarter threw a pick, Card's score a TD. Rams punt, Cardinals punt. Bulger fumbles, Card's kick a FG. Bulger throws a pick, Card's punt. Rams get the ball with a scant 3:23 seconds left in the game. Oh, an offense that can get into field goal range in under 4 minutes? Impossible, I tell you! That's some real mettle in the face of <ahem>adversity(didn't he create most of the diversity and let the Card's back in the game?).

The Baltimore game? It was 22-21 Baltimore to end the third quarter and the Ravens turned the ball over twice and punted in the 4th. Bulger heroically led some field goal drives while the Rams had the lead for the last 9 minutes of the game. A comeback win! My lord.

[Josh]

Whats the point in this.. Marc Bulger Is our Quarterback and will be for alteast 5 more years.. thats it.

[Josh]

in 2003 3,845 yds 22 TD's 22 INT's INT could be lower, But for a 3rd year quarterback that was a 6th round pick.. thats ok.

[AvengerRam]

Good to see that my stalker still tries to speak for everyone here at the Clan. I think you'll find that I've only expressed an interest in not overstating Bulger's accomplishments and compared him statistically to other QB's to try and add a little perspective to those with Blue & Gold retinal implants(obviously way past the point of glasses that could actually be removed).

Right. You rarely post here, and when you do, 99% of the time it is either (a) in a thread about Kurt Warner, or (b) in a thread about Marc Bulger - in which you constantly try to express your unending dissatisfaction over the fact that Bulger is here (and, by implication, that Warner is not).

Clearly, I'm the problem.

You, Sir, are the only Rams fan I know who seems to hate the Rams. That's fine. I understand that there are plenty of Arizona Cardinals tickets left (as well as open positions in the "I Hate Matt Leinart Club").

[Josh]

Why Molker??? Why??

[r8rh8rmike]

I don't know how to more clearly present that their per game and per attempt numbers are so similar. Bulger throws a LOT more than Pennington so the overall totals are in his favor but I don't place a value on pass attempts(or completions or anything else that stems from having so many attempts)when making a comparison of this kind.

Bulger and Pennington are comparable in efficiency, Bulger is much more prolific, which is meaningful in evaluating NFL QB's, wouldn't you agree?

I would appreciate knowing how you've figured out how to measure physical and mental toughness.

You answered your own question on physical toughness. As far as the mental aspect, take Bulger's comeback wins that you are not disputing (and there's plenty of them) and use that as a guide. I'm still waiting to hear about your boy Pennington's ability to lead comebacks.

Well, that's my problem with it. He was "named" to the Pro Bowl. Earning it is much different than just being a young QB that they knew wouldn't decline the invitation(like the vet's ahead of him who had been voted in). I never questioned that he showed up, but I think it's very debatable that he earned it.

Under the circumstances, Bulger put himself in a position to be named to the Pro Bowl over every other QB in the NFC. You're just going to have to accept that on his resume, there will always be at least 2 Pro Bowls listed.

[moklerman]

Right. You rarely post here, and when you do, 99% of the time it is either (a) in a thread about Kurt Warner, or (b) in a thread about Marc Bulger - in which you constantly try to express your unending dissatisfaction over the fact that Bulger is here (and, by implication, that Warner is not).

Like I said: stalker. Is it really debatable or conversational to express one's desire for the Rams to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl every year? Also, I'd take my criticism of the Rams or it's players every day of the week and twice on Sunday over someone who comments about the validity of other posters and their opinions. As long as you worship me from afar, we'll have no problems.

Why Molker??? Why??

Ask not why. Ask, why not?

Bulger and Pennington are comparable in efficiency, Bulger is much more prolific, which is meaningful in evaluating NFL QB's, wouldn't you agree?

I would first need to know what you mean by prolific. I would guess that Idon't agree though. I think they are very similar and the statistics illustrate that idea. I think it's much more likely that it's difficult for a Rams fan to objectively look at what Bulger's really accomplished especially compared to QB's from other teams.

You answered your own question on physical toughness. As far as the mental aspect, take Bulger's comeback wins that you are not disputing (and there's plenty of them) and use that as a guide. I'm still waiting to hear about your boy Pennington's ability to lead comebacks.

You consider playing hurt in very non-crucial situations admirable? I can see why you might think that Bulger playing with injured ribs would be a heroic thing but it was just so pointless to do so last year. If it was to get in the playoffs or in the playoffs I can see taking that risk or refusing to come out but let's be realistic. It didn't matter if Bulger was in there playing like crap or Frerotte was in there playing even worse. Bulger's job wasn't on the line in any way so I don't see any wisdom in what he did. The captain going down with the ship is a romantic idea but sometimes it's just not smart.

As far as Pennington's comebacks or comebacks in general, I'm not going to bother. I already expressed my opinion of some of the particular comebacks of Bulger's that you mentioned and in general unless it's something akin to Frank Reich's comeback for Buffalo or John Elway's 98 yard drive in a crucial game with actual odds against him, I'm not a proponent of comeback as a stat. It can, and often is as illustrated by your Baltimore/Arizona/Chicago examples, very misleading.

Overall, in terms of mental fortitude, assuming that most factors surrounding each player have been relatively equal, I would give Pennington more credit for dealing with the fans and media in New York.

Under the circumstances, Bulger put himself in a position to be named to the Pro Bowl over every other QB in the NFC. You're just going to have to accept that on his resume, there will always be at least 2 Pro Bowls listed.

I must also accept the fact that you're sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la, la, la, I can't hear you!" when I point out the misleading connotation by proclaiming Bulger's pro-bowl appearances as some kind of proof of something. Bulger was a middle of the pack QB that year, commendable due to his relative inexperience, but not good enough to get to the pro-bowl by voting or realistically to merit.

[Josh]

OK Marc Bulger Sucks.. He is Nothing.. He should go Play in the CFL!!

[ramsanddodgers]

OK Marc Bulger Sucks.. He is Nothing.. He should go Play in the CFL!!

In my own weird way that reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw....


ALL extremists should be shot!

[r8rh8rmike]

Round and round we go.........

All this back and forth and and not one opinion changed. What a surprise.

I guess we'll all just have to agree we want to see Marc Bulger play lights out and the Rams turn things around. We do all agree on that, right??

[ramsanddodgers]

ummm.. I think so....

[Josh]

I want Marc Bulger To be given a Fair shot At Middle Linebacker!! i think you all will agree!

[ramsanddodgers]

I want Marc Bulger To be given a Fair shot At Middle Linebacker!! i think you all will agree!

Not exactly...

[moklerman]

It's one thing to believe something to be true, it's quite another to ignore information when it contradicts one's belief. I'm perfectly willing to amend my point of view when compelling information is presented to me.

Impossible to overcome homerism though.