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  1. #46
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You both seem to question why anyone would even think to bring up our receivers in a conversation about quarterback play, so that must mean you think they're a stellar group doing a simply outstanding job, yes?

    I mean, we're talking about a unit in which only one (Avery) of five players was even in camp with this team. We're talking about a unit whose most targeted player yesterday (Gibson) was a guy playing only his second game with this organization. We're talking about a unit whose other three pieces are made up of an Eagles practice squad player (Amendola), a Packers cast-off who was active for only his second game yesterday, and a guy who had been sitting available on the market since early September (Kent).

    Is it possible this group might not be a great asset to a quarterback? Is it possible that being tied for second in the NFC in passes dropped might have an effect on the efficiency of your quarterback? Is it an indication of a good unit when the player targeted most yesterday is a guy who has barely been here a month, someone who admits he's not yet on the same page as the quarterback?

    All we can do is look at what's going on on the field. Not just part of it, not just what one guy is doing. But all of it. And yes, that includes some pretty inconsistent-at-best receiver play. To shrug that off as some trivial excuse or question how it's even brought up as a factor affecting this offense's efficiency strikes me as simply being at odds with reality. But that's just my opinion.



    Except it hasn't been. If Bulger had started every game since the start of the 2007 season, then you'd be right in labeling him the common link. But the Rams have given three other quarterbacks (Frerotte in '07, Green in '08, and Boller in '09) a try during that time frame, either because of injury or Bulger being benched. And none of them have done any better. Often times, they've done worse.

    If Marc Bulger is the common link to this team's troubles, why is it that the team continues to fail even when he's not on the field? Could that possibly suggest that there are other legitimate issues (ie. not excuses) holding this team back from being successful, issues that have prevented the Rams from being successful regardless of who's behind center?



    I absolutely agree. With the talent he has on offense, he has to be completely on his game, because this team isn't good or consistent enough to miss when an opportunity actually presents itself. If someone is open, you've got to hit him, because who knows when he's going to be open again.
    Frerotte, Boller, and a 38 year old Trent Green aren't exactly the QBs you want to use to make your point.

    I agree, they are not an upgrade, but that certainly doesn't mean that Marc Bulger gets a pass. He doesn't. He gets paid more than twice what they made combined, so what in the world could we possibly expect from them if the 10 million a year dollar man can't get it done.

    But they are not the issue here, Marc Bulger is. If he were being paid a modest salary, I'd adjust my criticism of him accordingly, but he's not. Therefore, as long as he makes 10 million a year, i expect him to play like it. And when he doesn't, I will not spare the rod.

    Not suggesting the WRs aren't an issue, obviously the timing needs to be better. But don't tell me no Qb could play better under the identical circumstances that face Marc Bulger because I'm not buying it.

    It is imperative that he play at a high level, his contract demands it.


  2. #47
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by MOM View Post
    So, let me get this straight...

    1. It's Marc's fault that Hightower and Wells ran the ball with wild abandon? Funny, I thought he played on the OFFENSE. Silly me.

    2. It's also totally Marc's fault that the receiver's can't even catch a cold? Oh, that's right! He was supposed to throw the ball, sprint downfield, and catch it himself! Silly me!

    3. Oh, yeah, let us not forget that on the last drive, he was supposed to stop the clock, take himself out of the game, and sit down until the world stopped spinning so that Boller or Null could come in and save the day, all because the line couldn't stop a THREE man rush? Whoops, I forgot two crucial items: the Rams were out of timeouts with less than a minute remaining, and the other eight men on Arizona's defense dropped into coverage to cover the four receivers that couldn't even catch a cold. Silly me!

    Yeah, he's the problem. Good grief!
    No you still have it crooked.

    1) Beanie Wells and Hightower could've run for 1,000 yards each and it still wouldn't have had anything to do with Marc Bulger's poor play. How do I know that? Because he's played poorly overall for the better part of three years now no matter what the circumstance.

    2) I'm sure every one of the receivers have caught a cold before. Don't be silly. Of course I'm not privy to any of their medical records, but let's just say I've got a hunch, though I don't really know what that's got to do with playing football.

    3) Perhaps if he were a better QB, then maybe, just maybe, he's not in that predicament to begin with.

    Certainly within the realm of possibilty isn't it?

    Maybe if he doesn't throw the pick in the first half it's a different game alltogether huh? Quite possibly.

    Maybe if he makes a better throw to Gibson on the TD many have given credit for him dropping, as if the DB had nothing to do with the play, we're in position to win without that final drive. Just maybe.

    All things considered, and yes I've given this careful consideration, I've come to the conclusion that yes, Marc Bulger is clearly a mjor part of our problem and has been for the last 3 years.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -11-24-2009 at 03:54 AM.

  3. #48
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua View Post
    I didn't see the game, but if bulger was in pain why didn't he stay on the turf so the officials would call an injury timeout? perhaps it would have been the best idea.
    Because he didnt stay on the ground amd cry about it he manned up and went out there and played football. God knows it gave up a better chance then say...boller.

  4. #49
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by 01d 0rd3r View Post
    Because he didnt stay on the ground amd cry about it he manned up and went out there and played football. God knows it gave up a better chance then say...boller.
    Don't be ridiculous.

    Marc bulger may be slightly better than Kyle Boller, but he's not good enough to carry this team when he's healthy, let alone when he's not.

    Besides that, I seem to remember when Kyle's production was better in 3 quarters than Bulger's was in 9. Remember that? And that was with marc fully healthy.

    So don't continue to feed me this crap about Bulger being so much better than Boller, that he gives us a better chance to win even when he's hurt.

    And finally, I know this may come as a shock to you but sometimes manning-up means stepping down when you're hurt and can't perform to the best of your ability. Ever thought abought that?

  5. #50
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua View Post
    I didn't see the game, but if bulger was in pain why didn't he stay on the turf so the officials would call an injury timeout? perhaps it would have been the best idea.
    An injury timeout would have been charged as a team timeout. Problem was.....they didn't have any.
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  6. #51
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Don't be ridiculous.

    Marc bulger may be slightly better than Kyle Boller, but he's not good enough to carry this team when he's healthy, let alone when he's not.

    Besides that, I seem to remember when Kyle's production was better in 3 quarters than Bulger's was in 9. Remember that? And that was with marc fully healthy.

    So don't continue to feed me this crap about Bulger being so much better than Boller, that he gives us a better chance to win even when he's hurt.

    And finally, I know this may come as a shock to you but sometimes manning-up means stepping down when you're hurt and can't perform to the best of your ability. Ever thought abought that?
    So you want to throw kyle boller in there with under a minute to go with i think it was over 60 yards to go against a prevent defense. Ill take a hurt marc over a healthy kyle any day.

    I dont know the exact rule for injury time outs when a team is out of time outs but i thought i read that it requires a clock runoff. So yes instead of lying on the ground and taking that clock runoff(if im correct, fact check me) Marc manned up and did the very best he could while continually being hit with a three man front.

    Edit: And i thought we all agreed that kyle even has two touchdowns because of the lack of game planning agaisnt a scrambling qb. Tell me what happend in the san fran game after that.
    Last edited by 01d 0rd3r; -11-24-2009 at 10:43 AM.

  7. #52
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    No you still have it crooked.

    1) Beanie Wells and Hightower could've run for 1,000 yards each and it still wouldn't have had anything to do with Marc Bulger's poor play. How do I know that? Because he's played poorly overall for the better part of three years now no matter what the circumstance.

    2) I'm sure every one of the receivers have caught a cold before. Don't be silly. Of course I'm not privy to any of their medical records, but let's just say I've got a hunch, though I don't really know what that's got to do with playing football.

    3) Perhaps if he were a better QB, then maybe, just maybe, he's not in that predicament to begin with.

    Certainly within the realm of possibilty isn't it?

    Maybe if he doesn't throw the pick in the first half it's a different game alltogether huh? Quite possibly.

    Maybe if he makes a better throw to Gibson on the TD many have given credit for him dropping, as if the DB had nothing to do with the play, we're in position to win without that final drive. Just maybe.

    All things considered, and yes I've given this careful consideration, I've come to the conclusion that yes, Marc Bulger is clearly a mjor part of our problem and has been for the last 3 years.
    WOW, did my point fly over your head at warp speed!

    My point about Arizona having immense success running the ball was to point out that Marc's play was not the biggest problem the Rams had Sunday. If the defense would have nutted up and stopped them more than once in awhile, this would not have happened! That is, no matter how you may spin it, not Marc's fault. That's not me being an "apologist", that is just plain old reality.

    Mocking what I said about the receivers doesn't make them catch the football any better. My point was that if they aren't able to hold on to a ball that hits them right square in the hands or the numbers, they are the ones that have a problem. That is also not Marc's fault. More reality for ya!

    Perhaps, if he had actual SUPPORT, he might be in a better position to make those big plays you are "demanding". Perhaps, if he had actual SUPPORT, he would not have people in his face a millisecond after the ball is snapped and would have TIME to make better decisions and his accuracy would improve. Holy cow.....WHAT A CONCEPT!

    If you are judging him one the one pick he threw, then every QB in the league sucks, because they have all made at least one in their careers. If you are judging his play on a receiver's inability to catch, then every QB in the league sucks, because every team has a receiver that can't catch. The difference is, you would normally find them on the Practice Squad, not starting. If you are judging him based on how the team plays on the other side of the ball, and blame the way they play on him, even though he has nothing to do with it, then every QB that has ever played the game sucks. See the pattern here?
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  8. #53
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by 01d 0rd3r View Post
    I dont know the exact rule for injury time outs when a team is out of time outs but i thought i read that it requires a clock runoff. So yes instead of lying on the ground and taking that clock runoff(if im correct, fact check me) .

    That's how I understand it to be.
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  9. #54
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Frerotte, Boller, and a 38 year old Trent Green aren't exactly the QBs you want to use to make your point.
    Whether I want them for my point is moot; the fact remains that they're the guys the Rams had and tried out during this span. Besides, Bulger critics had no problem advocating each of them becoming starters during their respective time on this football team, making the case that they'd be better than Bulger was. But they weren't. Often times, they were worse.

    So when multiple quarterbacks - not just one - fail to lead a team to success, at what point do we look at other issues on this team as the bigger problems? Not the only problems, but the bigger ones? The ones that probably need to be addressed before ANY quarterback can have sustainable success on this team?

    And while none of these guys were world beaters, let's not forget that Frerotte moved on from the Rams to the Vikings and played well enough to help Minnesota get to the playoffs in 2008.

    Hopefully Boller can come back to bat and do something more than what he accomplished against San Francisco and Minnesota. There are some winnable games on the schedule, and the Rams have been competitive enough to make you think they could pull one of these out. But I will be very surprised if he has any sustainable success on this team, simply because I don't think the pieces around the quarterback, any quarterback, are strong enough yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    I agree, they are not an upgrade, but that certainly doesn't mean that Marc Bulger gets a pass. He doesn't.
    No one has suggested Bulger gets a free pass or is blameless. Enough with the straw man argument, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Not suggesting the WRs aren't an issue, obviously the timing needs to be better. But don't tell me no Qb could play better under the identical circumstances that face Marc Bulger because I'm not buying it.
    But isn't that what you did by brushing them off as part of "the circus" and making a joke about it? Yet it's obvious how wide receiver play affects the efficiency of the passer, and you agree it needs to get better. If wide receiver play is a legitimate problem on this team, which you seemingly just acknowledged, why brush it off and act like it's just some ridiculous excuse?

    And I certainly think a more talented quarterback could play better under the same circumstances. Heck, I think Bulger could play better under these circumstances as well. The question is how much of a difference would it make.

    Let's assume a more talented quarterback would be more accurate with the football on a more consistent basis. Let's also assume a more talented quarterback would be more successful scrambling when things break down. But a more talented quarterback doesn't change the miscues and the mistakes made by the receiving corps, the questionable playcalling at times, the inconsistent protection of the offensive line over the last three years and still on occasion this year.

    There have certainly been moments where Bulger has not been accurate with his throws this season. But there have also been moments where Bulger has put a ball exactly where it needs to be, only to have the receiver come up short on his job. Let's recall the touchdown pass to McMichael that was dropped against Detroit. There was one against Washington as well. Speaking of Washington, the Avery fumble ended what could have been another TD drive. Gibson had a ball just last weekend in his hands in the endzone that he didn't bring in. Amendola had a drop against the Saints that could have changed the outcome of that game.

    While a better quarterback would improve the times where Bulger has not been accurate, a better quarterback can't make those accurate throws any better. So would a better quarterback do better? Yes, but I don't think the results would be significantly different, because again, I see this as a problem that's more widespread than just one guy.

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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    God, lets give Gibson a chance. One hes a rookie, two, he has been with the Rams all of
    3 weeks. Some fans have got to bring things into perspective. I bet some of you are the
    same fans that were calling for S.Jackson to be traded over the last 3 years.
    GET REAL

  11. #56
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Whether I want them for my point is moot; the fact remains that they're the guys the Rams had and tried out during this span. Besides, Bulger critics had no problem advocating each of them becoming starters during their respective time on this football team, making the case that they'd be better than Bulger was. But they weren't. Often times, they were worse.

    So when multiple quarterbacks - not just one - fail to lead a team to success, at what point do we look at other issues on this team as the bigger problems? Not the only problems, but the bigger ones? The ones that probably need to be addressed before ANY quarterback can have sustainable success on this team?

    And while none of these guys were world beaters, let's not forget that Frerotte moved on from the Rams to the Vikings and played well enough to help Minnesota get to the playoffs in 2008.

    Hopefully Boller can come back to bat and do something more than what he accomplished against San Francisco and Minnesota. There are some winnable games on the schedule, and the Rams have been competitive enough to make you think they could pull one of these out. But I will be very surprised if he has any sustainable success on this team, simply because I don't think the pieces around the quarterback, any quarterback, are strong enough yet.



    No one has suggested Bulger gets a free pass or is blameless. Enough with the straw man argument, please.



    But isn't that what you did by brushing them off as part of "the circus" and making a joke about it? Yet it's obvious how wide receiver play affects the efficiency of the passer, and you agree it needs to get better. If wide receiver play is a legitimate problem on this team, which you seemingly just acknowledged, why brush it off and act like it's just some ridiculous excuse?

    And I certainly think a more talented quarterback could play better under the same circumstances. Heck, I think Bulger could play better under these circumstances as well. The question is how much of a difference would it make.

    Let's assume a more talented quarterback would be more accurate with the football on a more consistent basis. Let's also assume a more talented quarterback would be more successful scrambling when things break down. But a more talented quarterback doesn't change the miscues and the mistakes made by the receiving corps, the questionable playcalling at times, the inconsistent protection of the offensive line over the last three years and still on occasion this year.

    There have certainly been moments where Bulger has not been accurate with his throws this season. But there have also been moments where Bulger has put a ball exactly where it needs to be, only to have the receiver come up short on his job. Let's recall the touchdown pass to McMichael that was dropped against Detroit. There was one against Washington as well. Speaking of Washington, the Avery fumble ended what could have been another TD drive. Gibson had a ball just last weekend in his hands in the endzone that he didn't bring in. Amendola had a drop against the Saints that could have changed the outcome of that game.

    While a better quarterback would improve the times where Bulger has not been accurate, a better quarterback can't make those accurate throws any better. So would a better quarterback do better? Yes, but I don't think the results would be significantly different, because again, I see this as a problem that's more widespread than just one guy.
    Nick, we can go back and forth forever and a day and Marc Bulger will still be the same grossly overpaid average QB at the end of each point.

    Say what you want, blame who you want, Marc Bulger is the starting QB making 10 million a year on a team that's won 6 games in three years and not only is that dispicable but it is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.

    You and others continue to find excuses to justify why one of the most grossly overpaid QB in the NFL should keep his job. While I, on the other hand have realized for a very long time now, that he is not the answer.

    Since neither you nor I will ever relent i believe enough has been said on this subject, and there really is no point to it.

    IMO, the Rams need to address the QB position this off-season, and that's all it is to it.

  12. #57
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    If this thread has proven one thing, it's that the Bulger apologists and those wearing rose colored glasses are still in full force.

    There is no way an unbiased fan comes away from yesterday's game with the idea that Marc Bulger isn't a serious part of the Ram woes. He is absolutely dreadful. I watched Kurt Warner (which was expected) outplay him, but Matt Leinart too? This circus has shifted to the wide receivers instead of the offensive line now, I wonder what's next, the waterboy? No matter who's next on the agenda, the common link is Marc Bulger. There is certainly no denying that, although I wouldn't doubt that some of you may try.

    For the apologists, I don't want to hear that any QB would suffer the same fate. That is absolute crap at this point. Just admit that there are a number of QBs who could've led this team to victories in each of the last two games, and cut your losses.

    Bulger played one of the best games he's played in 3 years against the Saints and it still wasn't enough. Why? Because he isn't good enough, no matter what the coach or any of the apologists say.

    Bottom line is, the guy is being paid 10 million a year for doing something a good high school QB could do. Basically nothing, if winning is your idea of a job well done.

    Sorry guys, but not only do I expect more, I demand more.
    Did you really watch the game? You said Leinart outplayed Bulger which is laughable. Don't give me stats either I saw the game, the Cards came to a screeching hault as soon as he entered the game. Not only that the Rams dropped an int that hit one of our db's right in the hands. As for us Bulger apologists, its funny because none of us say Bulger isnt part of the problem we just dont feel he's the biggest problem. As a matter of fact Bulger would be a lot less of a problem if he had a little more help around him. You are so bitter abot the 10 mil he is getting payed its rediculous. Is that 10 mil coming out of your pocket? After the 06 season he deserved to be payed, if you dot agree with that your just being stubborn. We all know Bulger is not playing well but as pointed out a multitude of times you Bulger haters just ignore al the other circumstances and point to Bulger like if there was a rookie back there this team would be better.

    Sanchez made the Jets better for 3 games lol and now they are not a good football team. Matt Cassell's qb rating dropped 14 points going from New England to KC, could that be a result of the talent around him or is it his fault? Jay Cutler doesnt look like a franchise qb anymore in Chicago, a player everyone on this board who was a Bulger hater was pleading for the Rams to get. Not only does Cutler not look like a franchise qb, going with most Bulger hater logic he should be cut from the Bears. Cutler is making too much money and he doesnt deserve it. Is it at all possible that Cutlers struggles are due to the fact he has little offensive talent around him? Cutler's qb rating is a whopping 4 points higher than Bulgers. Are the Bears struggles all Cutlers fault or does he get as pass? We all know the Bears are a better team than the Rams yet Cutler has turned into an interception machine going from the Broncos to the Bears.

    Most of us Bulger apologists have all acknowledged that Bulger is part of the problem. Most of us however also realize he wouldnt be as big of a problem as most of you think if our wr's would catch the ball and run the correct routes, and if our highly overpaid o-line wouldnt let him get crushed by a 3 man rush twice in the final minutes of the Cardinal game. We are not making excuses but pointing out facts and it seems Bulger haters are so blinded by the hatred they have for him they ignore that we in some part agree with the fact that Bulger could be better. Yet they refuse to see other factors causing him to look even worse than he really is.
    Just Fix It

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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    agreed rammiser.

    It must be nice for a QB to have Fitz-Boldin-Breaston to throw to.

    It must be nice for a QB to have Andre Johnson and Kevin Walter.

    It must be nice for a QB to have Ocho Cinco and Coles.

    Heck it must be nice to throw to TO and Lee Evans.

    Unfortunately Bulger doesn't know the feeling anymore. No knock on the Wr's.

  14. #59
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    Re: Marc Bulger cant be cut soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    Did you really watch the game? You said Leinart outplayed Bulger which is laughable. Don't give me stats either I saw the game, the Cards came to a screeching hault as soon as he entered the game. Not only that the Rams dropped an int that hit one of our db's right in the hands. As for us Bulger apologists, its funny because none of us say Bulger isnt part of the problem we just dont feel he's the biggest problem. As a matter of fact Bulger would be a lot less of a problem if he had a little more help around him. You are so bitter abot the 10 mil he is getting payed its rediculous. Is that 10 mil coming out of your pocket? After the 06 season he deserved to be payed, if you dot agree with that your just being stubborn. We all know Bulger is not playing well but as pointed out a multitude of times you Bulger haters just ignore al the other circumstances and point to Bulger like if there was a rookie back there this team would be better.

    Sanchez made the Jets better for 3 games lol and now they are not a good football team. Matt Cassell's qb rating dropped 14 points going from New England to KC, could that be a result of the talent around him or is it his fault? Jay Cutler doesnt look like a franchise qb anymore in Chicago, a player everyone on this board who was a Bulger hater was pleading for the Rams to get. Not only does Cutler not look like a franchise qb, going with most Bulger hater logic he should be cut from the Bears. Cutler is making too much money and he doesnt deserve it. Is it at all possible that Cutlers struggles are due to the fact he has little offensive talent around him? Cutler's qb rating is a whopping 4 points higher than Bulgers. Are the Bears struggles all Cutlers fault or does he get as pass? We all know the Bears are a better team than the Rams yet Cutler has turned into an interception machine going from the Broncos to the Bears.

    Most of us Bulger apologists have all acknowledged that Bulger is part of the problem. Most of us however also realize he wouldnt be as big of a problem as most of you think if our wr's would catch the ball and run the correct routes, and if our highly overpaid o-line wouldnt let him get crushed by a 3 man rush twice in the final minutes of the Cardinal game. We are not making excuses but pointing out facts and it seems Bulger haters are so blinded by the hatred they have for him they ignore that we in some part agree with the fact that Bulger could be better. Yet they refuse to see other factors causing him to look even worse than he really is.
    My only response is we'll have to agree to disagree on the subject that is Marc Bulger.

    I know he's not the answer and you obviously feel he is. What can I say?

    Maybe it's all a matter of expectations. So here's what I'll do. I'll list some expectations I'd have for a QB making Marc Bulger money, and you tell me which ones you disagree with and why. Here goes.

    1) I personally expect a QB to at least approach Pro-Bowl level at least every other year when he makes as much as Bulger does.

    2) I expect him to be a guy that makes guys around him better, not be totally dependant on other guys to validate him.

    3) I'd expect him to lead the team to at least 6 wins a season, not 6 in 3 years.

    4) I expect that if he makes 10 million a year, he wouldn't be getting dragged through the mud every other game by reporters and fans because of his subpar performance or lack of skill.

    5) I'd expect him to be a guy who commands his offense.

    6) I'd expect him to not go through droughts where it looks like he'd have trouble starting for Mater Dei High School.

    7) I'd expect him to be consistently mentioned as at least a top 15 QB and I'm being lenient on this one.

    There are more expectations I'd have for a QB making Bulger type money but I'll stop there for now.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -11-26-2009 at 11:39 AM.

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