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  1. #16
    elAcky Guest

    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    Here are my sure fire Martz sacking scenarios:
    a) loose to Cards (possibility the way they are playing)
    b) loose to niners (unlikely but hey its the whiners)
    c) not make the playoffs (certainty at this stage... well, you never know with the hawks..)

    I wonder how many people prefer loosing martz over not seeing the above happen.


  2. #17
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    I love how when the Rams lose, the "Fire Martz" brigade comes out. C'mon people, we all knew that this team was a roller coaster ride. You lose Turley and Wohlabaugh, two starters from the O line last year, and that is going to cause more trouble than Pace holding out.

    Then, you have a LB corp that is small and banged up. You also lose your top corner throwing everything into a tailspin on the defensive side of the ball.

    On top of all that, you have major dead money in Warner, big contracts for Faulk and Bruce (who are producing but are they producing up to their contract?) and tag money on Pace. Handcuffs you when you try to upgrade the defense.

    The Rams win next week against Seattle, and they have a huge advantage for the rest of the year.

  3. #18
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    For the record, here's a link to Pete Carrol's pro football coaching results when he was with the Jets and Pats in the mid 90s:

    http://www.profootball-reference.com...es/CarrPe0.htm
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  4. #19
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    We can't fix everything, Adarian too. There will always be questions. Every team has questions. Those others would be nice to upgrade, unless we can do it from within, but we HAVE to find replacements at RT & CB. This team has shown that we have nobody on this roster that can successfully stop opponents from attacking these weaknesses.
    I think we went over this one before. Yes there are always questions. Others have them as well. But I don't buy into the notion that merely finding a body constitutes addressing the question. Nobody has yet to confuse the new talent with the old. My list didn't suggest priorities either. All I am saying is that I don't like how talent has been identified so far. It's a re-occuring theme during sMartz' tenure.

  5. #20
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    Tell you the truth I am still very bitter about last year. I dont like Martz never really have. If he is not the root of the problem then the team is really screwed and it is time for me to really become a LA Rams fan again you know maybe pull out the paper bags. Back to those looks from other fans like someone died when you tell them you favorite team. (in a somber voice) "Oh, .. you are a Rams fan,...uhm well they are rebuilding they will be back soon" Oh well I guess when you commit to bleeding blue and gold sometimes you are gonna bleed.

    I think the biggest fact that shows that Martz is the problem is the way the Rams look like a good team one week and a team with no heart the next. That usually falls in the HC's lap.

    BTW the these same corners that got eaten yesterday looked alright last year and showed lot's of promise. They are young and need to be molded but it wont happen in this system. Like they say you could win w/o an offence you cannot win w/o a defence.
    Last edited by LaRamsFanLongTime; -11-08-2004 at 03:28 PM.
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  6. #21
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by adarian_too
    I think we went over this one before. Yes there are always questions. Others have them as well. But I don't buy into the notion that merely finding a body constitutes addressing the question. Nobody has yet to confuse the new talent with the old. My list didn't suggest priorities either. All I am saying is that I don't like how talent has been identified so far. It's a re-occuring theme during sMartz' tenure.
    If this is hollowese for saying the coaching staff and FO can't scout talent, I'd say you're right. And yes, your right, just finding a warm body (Williams, Dishman, Butler) is part of what got us here in the 1st place.

    My comments were more about where we fall short on the field. In my opinion, that would be RT & CB.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  7. #22
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    I love how when the Rams lose, the "Fire Martz" brigade comes out. C'mon people, we all knew that this team was a roller coaster ride. You lose Turley and Wohlabaugh, two starters from the O line last year, and that is going to cause more trouble than Pace holding out.
    Losing two starters on the line can't be put on Martz but the depth behind the starters can. These aren't one time occurrances and that's what is becoming the biggest problem. The SAME problems year after year. Team depth, questionable drafts, unprepared game days, misuse of timeouts, in-game adjustments and now, to top it all off, a lack of ability to score points.

    The Rams are getting manhandled lately and I'm afraid that the we might have a Jim Fassel situation soon. Losing games when you are accustomed to and expected to winning them is a lot worse than when you're expected to lose in the first place.

  8. #23
    lakerams Guest

    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    Nick-

    what was Bellichek's record during his first HC stint? sometimes, you have to go back to the college ranks or go back to being a coordinator like Bill did so you can learn what you didn't know before and come back and be successful. Vermeil and Bellichek are perfect examples.

    that is what I think Martz needs to do. I think his ego is too big to accept that fact, but I think he needs to go back and learn more about what it takes to be a HC. remember, he was only OC for 1 year. before that, he was QB coach for Washington.

    he needed more time to learn how to manage a game and come up with a balanced game plan ( his 2 glaring weaknesses ).

    as for the injuries, Turley's was unforeseeable. but, depth at CB should have been addressed in the draft as the other backup positions as well.

    as for the LB's, they were one of the up and coming LBing corps in the NFL last year. now, all of a sudden, they are undersized. then, Fletcher is mentioned as a big loss to the defense. was he not 5'9 and "undersized"?

    bottom line, Martz has more learning to do and the OTJ training is not working.

  9. #24
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lakerams
    what was Bellichek's record during his first HC stint?
    Touché. Good point, Lakerams.
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  10. #25
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    Great thread!! Lots of differing views clearly illustrated from all of you and best of all no personal attacks. I was really smarting from the "pasting" administered by the Pats but after reading all the posts in this thread I am feeling better. This is Clan Ram at its best....

    On the subject of M.M.... Since he is going to be here for at least the rest of the year, I will reserve judgement until then. In the mean time I'll just keep trying to enjoy the ride and not blow a gasket. God I hate it when the Rams lose like they did Sunday..........

  11. #26
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Out of the pool of possible available coaches, who is going to do a better job with this team than Martz?
    I can't let this one go Nick, too much temptation in it. Your conclusion that sMartz should be left in place is based on the premise that only sMartz has the ability to coach "this team." But "this team" isn't the same team anymore that justified preserving continuity by hiring sMartz in the first place. Attribute it to attrittion, free agency, injuries or what-not, but today's team is not "that team."

    sMartz has tried change at OL, 3rd and 4th WR, KR, PR, QB, coordinators, CB, S, LB. The system may be the same, but the team isn't. And this team isn't getting it done. "This team" will not be tomorrow's team either. Williams, Faulk, Bruce and possibly Pace will not be part of "this team" much longer. sMartz's system to replace integral parts of "that team" has been a bust. Finding suitable replacements is as much a part of a successful "system." sMartz' gimmickry is not fooling anyone any more.

    "This team" as you call it, is not the team of the GSOT years. Keeping sMartz just because his offensive scheme once was a success is not enough of a reason. Being more afraid of the devil you don't know than the devil you do is not an adjustment. Not only may the personnel be inadequate, but it's time to realize that the system is also inadequate.

    Where I will agree however, is that getting rid of sMartz wouldn't necessarily address a fundamental flaw in "the system" - namely that Shaw is still calling the shots. Just as his system once produced the likes of the 90s Rams, he can do it again. That really is all he knows. KW's success was a stroke of luck, not genius.

  12. #27
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    Interesting points, adarian. But notice you fell into the trap I warned against, and didn't name a potential coach out of the pool of realistic choices, instead only criticizing Martz himself.
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  13. #28
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    Re: Martz Has To Go.... PERIOD!!!!!

    I've went on the fire Martz wagon a time or two, But what I see is a loss of talent and a Defense that really stinks!!!! I can't bring myself to blame Martz for it all. This has the makings of a downward spiral , but let's hope not! :upset:
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  14. #29
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    Re: Martz Has To Go ... Period! Yes, it's time.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    But notice you fell into the trap I warned against, and didn't name a potential coach out of the pool of realistic choices, instead only criticizing Martz himself.
    If your post was a “trap” to lure unsuspecting readers in for some questionable motive, then I will take your word that I fell for it. I will pay better attention next time. And if you think that setting up a straw man simply in order to knock it down is meaningful I’ll take your word for that too. As soon as any specific name is mentioned in any particular context, the opportunity to discredit him is as great as it is to support it.

    I thought the answer was clear. Anyone else. If this team will never be that team again, there is no point in worrying about who specifically is “most” qualified right now. At this point what is needed is a complete overhaul. New personnel up and down the ladder of the organization. I’m not worried about the argument of who specifically would be better under any given set of circumstances. I am concerned with the argument about the current set of circumstances not being acceptable any more. Once the argument moves away from whether change is merited in the first place, then I’ll consider the alternatives. Until then, change is just blowin’ in da wind.

    I wonder if Georgia will give me the team if I can mark her tarot cards in a way for them to be read just right? That would fix everything. In my mind anyway. I could then hear how dumb my decisions were all the time. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

  15. #30
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz Has To Go ... Period! Yes, it's time.

    I didn't say my post was a trap. What I suggested was that people who called for Martz's release not to just criticize him and say how he needs to be fired, but also suggest a specific alternate course of action. Your response failed to do that, and because of that, I commented that you fell into the trap "I warned against." How that equates to my post being a trap to lure unsuspecting readers in for some unquestionable motive, I'm not sure. I think you've misunderstood my original point by characterizing my entire post as a trap, which isn't what I said at all.
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