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  1. #1
    moklerman Guest

    Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    What can be said? Mike Martz doesn't know how to call a game or develop a gameplan. How does Bulger only have 16 pass attempts at the end of the third quarter with most of the Patriots secondary injured and Troy Brown playing defensive back? Just now, the Rams are "trying", and I use that term loosely, to make a comeback and Bulger lets the playclock run all the way down, then have to call a timeout while in the red zone.

    The defense is a joke. Plain and simple. They can't stop the run. Period. Have the Patriots even scored 40 points against anyone else this year?

    Oh, and let's not forget about the retarded(not special) teams play. McDonald muffs and fumbles a punt early to put the Rams in an early hole. Good job coaching staff. All of the "quality not quantity time" put in at practicce is really paying off.

    I had my hopes that a new incarnation of the Greatest Show days might still be possible but this team isn't even going to the playoffs.

    Freakin' Adam Vinateri had a touchdown pass against the D because they had their collective heads up their asses for Christ's sake!!! This was the ugliest thing in a long time and I wait with baited breath for all of you Martz and Marmie(butt-buddies) apologists to try and rationalize how this isn't that big of a deal or it's only one game. Does anyone out there feel that the Rams can beat a playoff team? Not if the 1-7 Dolphins have anything to say about it. If the opponent isn't Arizona the Rams better not expect to win. Hell, Arizona's about to pass the Rams in the standings so I can't even use that as a good example.
    Last edited by moklerman; -11-07-2004 at 08:42 PM.


  2. #2
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    How does Bulger only have 16 pass attempts at the end of the third quarter with most of the Patriots secondary injured and Troy Brown playing defensive back?
    Interestingly enough, I was debating someone in the chat who thought we should be running the ball more. I guess it shows the disparity in what people think this team should be doing.
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  3. #3
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    The answer is - you're both right.


    If the Rams ran the ball more, they would have had more pass attempts, and fewer sacks.

  4. #4
    general counsel Guest

    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Sorry to disagree, but we just dont have the talent on the defensive side of the ball and the turley injury massacred us. I dont blame martz. shoot me. Did martz fumble the punt. Did he miss tackle after tackle. Did he get bulger sacked and hit time after time. You want to throw the ball more when grant williams gets beat on every play? Where should bulger throw from, flat on his ass?

    general counsel

  5. #5
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Good point, GC. Martz isn't out there making mistakes on the field, however at some point you have to wonder how prepared he has this team. It's hard for me to believe that the Rams look flawless in practice only to fall apart on the field, but who really knows.

    Regardless, you can't expect to win a game when your defense gives up 40 points to a team averaging 26 per game, and then can only score 22 against a defense that has to resort to starting a wide receiver at corner because they're so beat up. I'm starting to wonder if maybe we underestimated the Pats because of the injuries.
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  6. #6
    ZigZagRam's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    I don't blame Martz either. We just don't have the personnel. Simple as that. We need a new defense, and we need help on the offensive line. I don't know why I get my hopes up that the defense will actually make a play when it is important but I'm always let down.

    I never realized, until this year, how important a defensive coordinator really is.

  7. #7
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Martz once again got out coached by Belichick, who showed he is the master of preperation and getting more with less. In addition to getting a touchdown pass from his kicker and effectively using a wide reciever to help out in the secondary, he also managed to get a touchdown catch from a linebacker. Too bad Martz' plug and play doesn't work like Belichick's plug and play.

  8. #8
    general counsel Guest

    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Actually nick, we really only scored 15 on offense, the defense scored 7. nice play by damione lewis who has been a bright spot this year.

    My criticism of martz is that he is not doing enough to help grant willaims. I dont care if faulk is kept in to block over and over, we have to make adjustments, williams just cant handle the job. Dishman was terrible today also.

    One other point, we are giving up sacks and pressures with a three man rush. Pace never gets beat, so the reality is four of our guys cant block two of theirs!

    general counsel

  9. #9
    moklerman Guest

    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    I just don't understand this. When is Martz going to be accountable? He didn't coach badly in the Super Bowl, the players didn't execute. He didn't coach badly when the Rams lost to a winless team(that lost again today), it was the personnel. Martz can't be blamed for getting blown out against the Patriots...at home, he just doesn't have the personnel.

    Does Bellicheck have the personnel? Does Arizona have the personnel? They seem to be finding a way to win. But that's because they're loaded with talent, not suffering like the Rams. There's an obvious laundry list of talent on offense for the Rams yet they're not putting up enough points. Please make note of that statement, I didn't dare say putting up enough points to win.

    No, that would be a very unrealistic expectation of any offense. But, who wouldv'e imagined bringing in player after player that couldn't cut it as Cardinals. Then, bringing in the DC from the worst defense in the league. That's Martz's decision there. I strongly doubt that Jay Z. came in to Martz's office and said: "Mike, we're going to hire Larry Marmie away from Arizona whether you like it or not."

    Some might argue that the Rams can't get personnel because of salary cap restrictions. Warner's dead money, Bruce, Holt, Faulk and Pace having huge contracts, etc. That has some validity to it but who helped make those decisions? Keeping Warner and not re-signing Bulger to a large contract would have saved money but aside from that, isn't Warner like the only player that we're having to eat the contract on dead money? Turley's loss to injury can't be blamed on Martz but did he think that Turley was going to play forever? Why is there no depth on the o-line? AGAIN!!! Every year the Rams are constantly in peril of losing their starting lineman to injury because there is absolutely no depth behind the starters. That's on the head coach isn't it?

    There are so many things to list in regards to Martz's tenure unravelling that it's pointless to list them all. But every year the team seems to get a little worse instead of getting a little better. Now that the team is populated by so many Martz players I think we see the product that he is able to put on the field. It's a nice fantasy to think that Martz is a good(definately not great) head coach but it's becoming more apparrent as time goes on that his place is in the booth. There is just too much to coaching in the NFL other than having a good offensive scheme.

  10. #10
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel
    Actually nick, we really only scored 15 on offense, the defense scored 7. nice play by damione lewis who has been a bright spot this year.
    You're right, my mistake.


    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    I strongly doubt that Jay Z. came in to Martz's office and said: "Mike, we're going to hire Larry Marmie away from Arizona whether you like it or not."
    And I strongly doubt that Jay Z. came into Martz's office and said, "Mike, you hire whoever you want. Seriously. We'll just write the check. You're in charge of all coaching staff decisions from now on. You and no one else."

    It's on all of their shoulders, not just Martz's. Obviously Martz had some influence, but he's not the owner - he didn't make the final call. There was some supposed rational mind that actually agreed with Martz. That's the person I'd be looking for, the guy without any personal ties to Marmie that agreed to this move.


    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Keeping Warner and not re-signing Bulger to a large contract would have saved money
    Warner would have counted for $9,467,457 on the roster had he stayed. Bulger's qualifying offer was for $1.824 million. So with that and Warner's full contract, that's a total of $11,291,457 of the cap tied up by Warner and Bulger under his tender offer.

    Now, looking at the scenario with Warner being cut and Bulger signed long-term. With Warner cut, he counts for $4,611,857 against this year's cap. Bulger signed what was classified as a three year extension, which implies that the cap figure for this season is the same under the tender. But ignoring that for a second, for the two figures to be even, the first year of Bulger's new contract would have to be $6.679 million, which is highly unlikely since the vast majority of NFL contracts are back-loaded.

    So no, I doubt we would have saved money had we kept Warner and not resigned Bulger. I'm not sure how one would come up with that notion, honestly.


    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Turley's loss to injury can't be blamed on Martz but did he think that Turley was going to play forever?
    What exactly does this mean? Obviously the Rams didn't think Turley was going to play forever, because Turley will be 33 by the time the last year of his contract extension rolls around. For an offensive lineman, that's not exactly ancient. Hell, Timmerman and Nutten are 33. McCollum is 34.


    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    That's on the head coach isn't it?
    Partially, but it's probably also on the front office guys who work out contracts and have a bigger impact on what kind of money pool a coach has to work with when looking at personnel.
    Last edited by Nick; -11-08-2004 at 01:59 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Obviously Martz had some influence, but he's not the owner - he didn't make the final call.
    Well god help us all, Nick, if Madamn Ram had any say in it.




    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    There was some supposed rational mind that actually agreed with Martz.
    Ah maybe, but I really think Martz gets to choose and has final say when it comes to his staff.

  12. #12
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter
    Well god help us all, Nick, if Madamn Ram had any say in it.

    Ah maybe, but I really think Martz gets to choose and has final say when it comes to his staff.
    Even if Martz has that final say, you still have to fault the front office for (1) giving him that power and (2) agreeing to the hiring. Martz is certainly at fault, but I'm just trying to say that he's not the one writing the checks and drawing up the papers. It's more than him.
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  13. #13
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Martz tried to exploit the secondary of New England, he just didn't have the time for his plays to develop due to the front line. Heck, Timmerman was getting smoked yesterday.

    Blow up the O line and start over.

  14. #14
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Pretty good point, Tx. I imagine it's hard to pick apart a secondary when your opponent's three-man rush is penetrating and sacking your QB. Dishman and Williams were exposed all day, and the rest of the line didn't look that great either.
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  15. #15
    general counsel Guest

    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Rule # 1 of qb play and an offense that depends on deep patterns down the field- YOU CANT THROW FROM FLAT ON YOUR ASS!!!!!!!!!

    Bottom line, disman and williams destroyed our chance to exploit the secondary. whenever bulger had time, he was great.

    general counsel

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