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  1. #16
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the Pats register a sack with a three man rush. The right end went inside, and Dishman was bobbling around like a Weeble and blocked Pace from staying on his block. Boom, sack. Unbelievable.


  2. #17
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    So no, I doubt we would have saved money had we kept Warner and not resigned Bulger. I'm not sure how one would come up with that notion, honestly.
    You're using numbers based on what has happened, not what realistically would have happened. Had the Rams chosen to get rid of Bulger or at least given Warner the opportunity to start (Warner probably wouldn't believe anything from Martz toward the end though) he likely would have agreed to restructure his contract (again) to make it more cap friendly. He is playing for about $1 million right now just so he can play so I think it very possible that he would restructure his deal so he could play and not have to uproot and restart somewhere else.

    What exactly does this mean? Obviously the Rams didn't think Turley was going to play forever, because Turley will be 33 by the time the last year of his contract extension rolls around.
    It means that Martz and the front office have continually stocked the o-line on a shoestring budget. That losing Turley shouldn't have been as catostrophic as it has turned out. Every year, if the RT goes down, the guy backing him up is practically useless and it's because there has been a distinct neglect of the o-line. How many wr's and rb's have been on the Rams roster in the last few years compared to the o-line? It seems that the Rams are always addressing skill players in the draft as well as free agency while scraping the bottom of the barrel and retirement list for o-lineman.

  3. #18
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    You're using numbers based on what has happened, not what realistically would have happened.
    Well, let's be honest - that's all conjecture and not much else. To call it realistic is misleading, unless you can cite a source confirming Warner would have restructured had the Rams kept him and moved Bulger. He said he'd be willing to restructure back in Jan 2003, but only if the Rams paid him the money in another form (bonus).

    But what you said was, "Keeping Warner and not re-signing Bulger to a large contract would have saved money." When you look at the numbers, that's not the case at all. And unless you know of Warner saying he'd restructure - if you do, post the link cause I'd like to read it, having missed it earlier in the year - then I don't think you can say it's a realistic option.


    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    It means that Martz and the front office have continually stocked the o-line on a shoestring budget.
    That I agree with, but Martz and the front office certainly couldn't have assumed that Turley would have a back injury that would keep him out all of 2004 and threaten his career. The Rams needed a presence on the right side of their line, and they got one. Injuries are the nature of the game.

  4. #19
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    I didn't say it was a stone-cold, lock, guarantee. Just realistic. It is my "belief" that he would have helped the team out again based on what he's done for the Rams in the past. Showing up to camp in 2000 without a new contract, restructuring at least once after that and Warner's character, again, in my opinion, all lead me to believe the possibility of him helping out a salary capped team is realistic. Add to that his willingness to sign a deal in NY for very little money and a 1st overall pick waiting, impatiently, in the wings. He put himself in a very bad spot just so he could play. Is it a means to an end? Sure. But I'd much rather pull for a guy who's willing to go out and "audition" than one who just sits on the bench and takes the money.

  5. #20
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    I said it last week and I'll say it again this week, the Patriots game wasn't that important to me. Yes, need to win every one of them but if Martz and the gang win out against the NFC West.....then shoot me and bury me face down so every stinking one of you can kiss my TEXAS backside because the Rams will be in the playoffs.

  6. #21
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    I said it last week and I'll say it again this week, the Patriots game wasn't that important to me. Yes, need to win every one of them but if Martz and the gang win out against the NFC West.....then shoot me and bury me face down so every stinking one of you can kiss my TEXAS backside because the Rams will be in the playoffs.
    I love your optimism, Tx, but I just don't think 7-9 will get us in the playoffs.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  7. #22
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    I didn't say it was a stone-cold, lock, guarantee.
    I don't think I said or implied that you claimed it was a stone-cold, lock, guarantee.

    However, when you counter my cap numbers by saying, "You're using numbers based on what has happened, not what realistically would have happened," you sound pretty confident about the situation playing out as you've described it.


    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    It is my "belief" that he would have helped the team out again based on what he's done for the Rams in the past.
    And based on the position that Warner and his agent took in 2003, and what appears to be complete silence in 2004 about restructuring in order to remain in the team, it's my "belief" that he wasn't planning on restructuring, at least not unless he was basically guaranteed the starting job as he was in 2003, which wasn't realistically going to happen in 2004. So we'll have to disagree about that.

    It's all semantics, really. But let's get back to the original point.

    In your earlier criticism of Martz, you suggest that he's partially responsible for our current cap situation because he helped make certain decisions. I don't think anyone could argue this, but again, my issue was with the comment that followed. If we look at what happened had Warner remained a Ram, Bulger kept his one-year tender contract, and neither contract changed, a situation I examined in my original response to you, the Rams would be in a much deeper cap hole. You later suggest that had Martz dealt Bulger and kept Warner, Kurt would have renegotiated and we'd have more cap money. Perhaps. While I'd dispute how realistic of an option it is, it certainly could happen.

    But I pose the question, what would happen to the team in this instance? We've heard from multiple reports that the locker room was generally behind Marc Bulger. How would the players react if Martz traded him away in favor of Kurt? Furthermore, how would Kurt play? While the move might have freed up some cap space if a number of your circumstances are met, it leads to a number of other vast questions and problems with the team that, personally, I'm glad we didn't pursue.

  8. #23
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    Re: Martz and Marmey apologists will be shot on sight

    We can all talk about firing coaches, but the fact is that the players need to make plays and aren't.

    If Dishman is getting beat, bench him. If Williams is getting beat, bench him.

    If the CB's are playing the WR's five yards off the ball, when it's 3rd and 5, slapp the DC upside the head and bench him.

    If the MLB, who is supposed to call the plays, can't figure out who's to cover the wide out on a field goal attempt, BENCH HIM!

    Players are more accountable than the coaches.

    EXECUTION IS THE KEY TO VICTORY
    JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS


    "HIT HARD, HIT FAST, AND HIT OFTEN"
    Adm. William "Bull" Halsey

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