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  1. #1
    RamWraith's Avatar
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    Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    Martz can not win with the current situation. This could spell disaster for our coach. The three scenarios I see playing out for this team has Martz looking at the door.

    1) The Rams turn the season around under the new Vitt regime and Martz will be ridiculed for not doing things right.

    2) The Rams stay on the current track and Martz will be ridiculed for being underachievers and not improving the product.

    3) The Rams fall off the face of the earth and Martz is ridiculed for getting sick and not having the leadership to train the staff to perform in tight situations or perform every day functions.

    No matter what happens I think our poor coach is doomed. This should make some of you happy. Not sure who is going to do a better job though.


  2. #2
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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    If the Rams front office has any honor,they will let Martz return as head coach no matter what.
    My heart beats crazy and my blood runs wild

  3. #3
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    I agree the only way Martz would have been safe was if this team was playing good before his absence. They have not played the way they are capable of yet this year they will get better. But there are going to be many vultures looking to blame the poor start we had on some one. If we win Martz will be blamed even if it just happens to be more the team coming together with everyone finding their roll on this team. If we stay the same or lose people will say it was coach Martz offense and it was his coaching staff and team that he assembled. He truly is in a no win situation even if this had not happened after starting 2-3 he had his back to the wall and would have been coaching the rest of the season for his job.

    The only last hope for him to retain his job, as coach is if he can return this year and somehow his team does well. Maybe make the playoffs and perform well in the playoffs. No one likes to make changes when things are going good. If you had the choice between an existing good head coach and a new head coach that could either be a Marmie or a Lombardi, which would you take. Would you risk the possibility that you might be horrible?

    Small Disclaimer: I have not classified Martz as a good head coach in my opinion this was going to be my deciding year. I would have let him coach out this year then decided if he was good or not. There are valid points on both sides of the Martz issue.

    Ideally Martz would take a reduced roll and return to offensive coordinator for the Rams but I don’t see that happening. If this was the case the offense would not change and the defense and special teams well they have always been suspect under Martz.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -10-16-2005 at 10:22 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    I don't agree with your options. I think that if the Rams' offense struggles without Martz and the defense continures to struggle, they fire Marmie, take away some of Martz's say-so on personnel matters and he comes back next year.

    The fact that the offense lost Bruce and had a promising RT learning and improving on the job will help in his case to run things again next year. It sure seems likely that the Rams might be revisiting 1999 again. Wasn't this pretty much what Vermeil was going through between 1998 & 1999? Give him one more chance, but we're not doing everything his way anymore. Heck, now that I think of it, Vermeil's offense lost Bruce to a nagging (rather than season ending) injury that year too. Not all the similarities are there, but it's familiar.

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    sbramfan is offline Registered User
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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    Well, I think agree with Mok on what will hapen, however if:

    The Rams turn the season around under the new Vitt regime and Martz will be ridiculed for not doing things right
    I would like to personally call him and remind him about a QB he once had that suffered the same fate.

  6. #6
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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    How vilified would the FO be if they fired a coach who fought, struggled, and gutted out a serious illness to be on the sideline for his team? A guy that was so dedicated to his job that he worked 18 hour days despite that illness. What could they tell a team full of players who love the guy? I just don't see it happening unless Martz himself agrees to step down.

  7. #7
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    I think that if the Rams' offense struggles without Martz and the defense continures to struggle, they fire Marmie, take away some of Martz's say-so on personnel matters and he comes back next year.
    The Rams offense has struggled at times with Martz this year. Their biggest 1st quarter this year was 7 and they got shut out twice in the first quarter this year. I really doubt that this offense will struggle that much more I think they are only going to get better. Barron is now in at RT and Jackson and Faulk have not been utilized much yet.

    Comming into week 6.
    Rams rankings on offense.

    2nd place tie for sacks.
    2nd place tie for most yards lost due to a sack.
    4th place tie for most giveaways.
    3rd place in most fumbles.
    5th place in most INTs.
    9th place in most offensive penalty yards.

    23rd place in rushing yards.

    I realize these are the negatives but it also proves that we have room for improvement this year on offense. Which I think will happen with or without Martz. Its not just how many yards did you pass for.

    I may not be able to say Martz did bad this year but how many can say he did well as a head coach. Our two wins were left in the hands of our defense. If our defense had not stopped them when they had to we would be 0-5. The first few games of the season everyone was talking about how our offense needed to step it up. This seems to be the only thing some people try to hold our head coach accountable for over the years is his offense and not special teams and defense.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -10-17-2005 at 12:16 AM.

  8. #8
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    You guys are putting to much weight into what the fans may think. There is only one or two peoples opinion that matter

  9. #9
    thoey's Avatar
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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    I think that as long as he recovers, it is a win...
    This space for rent...

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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    Quote Originally Posted by thoey
    I think that as long as he recovers, it is a win...
    Amen. And Terry, thanks for showing us the bigger picture here.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  11. #11
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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    I think that as long as he recovers, it is a win...
    It kind of goes without saying. In some arguments I think some things don't even need to be addressed so I don't bring them up. We all agree that Martz needs to get healthy so there's no point reitterating it.
    You guys are putting to much weight into what the fans may think. There is only one or two peoples opinion that matter
    So, should we just close the message board then? What's the point of posting this? Can the rest of us have a pleasant conversation, please? Do you honestly think that anyone is thinking to themselves: "boy, if I formulate my post in a clear, concise, logical manner, Rams management might use my ideas"?
    I realize these are the negatives but it also proves that we have room for improvement this year on offense.
    There's always room for improvement and I agree with you to some extent. However, the second most important stat (win's is #1 of course) is scoring. The Rams, even with all their troubles, are still #5 in scoring in the NFL.
    Our two wins were left in the hands of our defense.
    Just to split hairs, I think the Arizona win was left in the hands of the referee's. I think there are some rules that need to be modified in the offseason. The whole purpose of the 10 second run-off is to penalize a team that is subversively trying to stop the clock in an attempt to keep their hopes alive.

    I could see if the clock was down to 1 second and the qb spiked the ball early or something like that but the penalty in this particular case was excessive for the foul. The Cardinals had plenty of time to run a play and to end the game on a mental mistake that had no bearing on the time remaining is something that shouldn't occur. I want to see games that are decided by the teams on the field not loopholes in the rulebook.

    Isn't everyone curious to know whether Warner could have thrown a td in that situation? Or whether the defense, after bending all the way down the field, would hold in the end? Now we'll never know. All we got to see was the LT for the Cardinals with his jock in his hands as time ran out.
    How vilified would the FO be if they fired a coach who fought, struggled, and gutted out a serious illness to be on the sideline for his team?
    The parallel's between Martz and Warner in this situation seem uncanny. I'm reluctant to bring up the name because it will start tangents that I'm not interested in revisiting but to answer your question, I think that since the precedent has been set, Martz could very well lose his job if the Rams, under Vitt, go on a playoff run. "Could" being the operative word. I would like to think that the Rams wouldn't fire him but with all the in-fighting that apparently goes on at Rams Park I really don't know.

  12. #12
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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    from moklerman:

    The parallel's between Martz and Warner in this situation seem uncanny. I'm reluctant to bring up the name because it will start tangents that I'm not interested in revisiting but to answer your question, I think that since the precedent has been set, Martz could very well lose his job if the Rams, under Vitt, go on a playoff run. "Could" being the operative word. I would like to think that the Rams wouldn't fire him but with all the in-fighting that apparently goes on at Rams Park I really don't know.
    There is one thing that we aren't taking into consideration here and that's the locker room. I'm not so sure that the players, for whatever reason, had Warner's back. However, to a man they seem to love playing for Martz.

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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    to a man they seem to love playing for Martz.
    I agree that that's all we ever see in terms of public statements. However, there are some quality(as far as I know) guy's who've renounced their allegiance to Martz quite publically once they weren't on the roster. Proehl come's to mind.

    While I think most guys do like playing for Martz, I think all Rams players know not to criticize anything he does for fear of their job. This isn't unique to only the Rams and Martz, I'm just not convinced that the public statements of love aren't somewhat calculated in some cases.

  14. #14
    thoey's Avatar
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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    from moklerman:
    There is one thing that we aren't taking into consideration here and that's the locker room. I'm not so sure that the players, for whatever reason, had Warner's back. However, to a man they seem to love playing for Martz.
    Tx, we don't know that. We'll find out now who is really true to "our" coach.
    This space for rent...

  15. #15
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    Re: Martz now in a lose, lose situation

    Quote Originally Posted by RamWraith
    Martz can not win with the current situation. This could spell disaster for our coach. The three scenarios I see playing out for this team has Martz looking at the door.


    1) The Rams turn the season around under the new Vitt regime and Martz will be ridiculed for not doing things right.

    2) The Rams stay on the current track and Martz will be ridiculed for being underachievers and not improving the product.

    3) The Rams fall off the face of the earth and Martz is ridiculed for getting sick and not having the leadership to train the staff to perform in tight situations or perform every day functions.

    No matter what happens I think our poor coach is doomed. This should make some of you happy. Not sure who is going to do a better job though.
    Sadly, I see the exact OPPOSITE coming from this situation. If he recovers fully the front office almost HAS to give him another full season for fear of looking like they kicked the guy when his health failed him part way through the season.

    While I do wish a full recovery for him, I would prefer he quietly announces his retirement to insure his long term health rather than risk coming back to the grind of coaching. Somehow I dont see that happening.

    I fully agree with the first part of the last paragraph...he most definately has proven himself a "poor coach".

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