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  1. #1
    marcus1111 is offline Registered User
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    maybe i'm blowing smoke

    I have been reading in both this and the post dispatch forums about our need to get a seasoned high quality wr to replace avery... and to some extent not against bringing in a quality player ... but at what expense.

    after the pats game... everyone raved about bradfords game... rightfully so.. but when I casually looked over the game stats (did not watch game) and compared them to the first two games of this yrs preseason... right along with sam b's numbers improving dramatically so did the receivers... which makes sense... example gilyard's numbers went from 0-3 and no yds to 3 catches and around 10+yds a catch... one could say this for many of the receivers over the past 3 games... along with quality play of the offensive line.. passing in the nfl is one of timing and running predetermined routes for a successful passing game...which takes some time to develop between receivers and qb... and in my opinion this is evolving with the current qb and receivers.

    I believe the coach... being fairly experienced and observant of the development and chemistry of situations such as this is not concerned about the supposedly huge hole left by avery... in my opinion he is looking at both short term and long term goals... what level of players does he have right now... and with some game experience at what level will they be 6 games from now or next season... again in my opinion... foresees the current talent developing alongside each other as they gain experience by more snaps and playing time... like a very good offensive line .. qb and receivers is much more than just a quality qb... it is about the little things that can only be learned through numerous repetitions and communications.

    as it stands after very poor seasons ...the rams have everything to gain by developing their 'skill' players... vs maybe winning a few more games this year and then watching several of the key players on single year contracts brought in leave for another team while potential high quality players such as rookies have lost another year in game experience.


  2. #2
    a.p.quinn is offline Registered User
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    totally agree.

  3. #3
    rNemesis's Avatar
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    Very good point

    I guess thats why we didnt go after the likes of TO, Mcnabb, etc.

    Goog high priced veterans that will be gone after only a couple of seasons and still no superbowl ring

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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    I agree, let's see what danario, and the other WR's can do. If we were the pats, colts, packers then i say we need to get someone but we are still 2-3 yrs away from being in contention. Let's work our young players and see what we got.

  5. #5
    marcus1111 is offline Registered User
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by rob6465 View Post
    I agree, let's see what danario, and the other WR's can do. If we were the pats, colts, packers then i say we need to get someone but we are still 2-3 yrs away from being in contention. Let's work our young players and see what we got.
    what is interesting when you bring up the pats and colts is how similar the rams current situation is to these teams not that long ago... the pats were recognized during their successful run as being able to develop their team from within and not going out after the top talent on the market at the time... the colts were similar but not as much

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    Rich86 is offline Registered User
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    i kind of agree the rams are doing a better job drafting then they get credit for. i also think 2011 draft class has a lot of nice #1's wrs to go after, so it's not a must to get one this season. but i guess it depends on how high you think the rams ceiling is this year. with warner retiring it's pretty wide open. rams could definitely use the help

  7. #7
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    Agreed. Baldwin, Floyd, Jones, Green, Broyles are all great WR prospects (and the first four give us something we don't already have in HEIGHT. I would much rather wait for next years draft to get a true number 1.

  8. #8
    marcus1111 is offline Registered User
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    the double bind is that as the rams hopefully improve they will slide down the draft order... which is not bad... remember cinn continually having top draft choices year after year of losing seasons... historic failures on a couple number one draft choices... but can also lay the blame on the one factor that was present throughout it all the owner ... mike brown. right now I really think the rams have real potential with bradford being the lightning rod so to speak... may not pan out this season but if the program builds wisely and not try jump start the team by throwing high profile talent at the situation... again the mistake that cinn did year after year... the rams could build a team that is consistently competitive and potentially excels ... just have to look at the old steeler dynasty for an example... young bradshaw... build up the defense... they all seemed to compliment each other... make each other better... but it took a couple years of learning and losing to get there.

  9. #9
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus1111 View Post
    I have been reading in both this and the post dispatch forums about our need to get a seasoned high quality wr to replace avery... and to some extent not against bringing in a quality player ... but at what expense.

    after the pats game... everyone raved about bradfords game... rightfully so.. but when I casually looked over the game stats (did not watch game) and compared them to the first two games of this yrs preseason... right along with sam b's numbers improving dramatically so did the receivers... which makes sense... example gilyard's numbers went from 0-3 and no yds to 3 catches and around 10+yds a catch... one could say this for many of the receivers over the past 3 games... along with quality play of the offensive line.. passing in the nfl is one of timing and running predetermined routes for a successful passing game...which takes some time to develop between receivers and qb... and in my opinion this is evolving with the current qb and receivers.

    I believe the coach... being fairly experienced and observant of the development and chemistry of situations such as this is not concerned about the supposedly huge hole left by avery... in my opinion he is looking at both short term and long term goals... what level of players does he have right now... and with some game experience at what level will they be 6 games from now or next season... again in my opinion... foresees the current talent developing alongside each other as they gain experience by more snaps and playing time... like a very good offensive line .. qb and receivers is much more than just a quality qb... it is about the little things that can only be learned through numerous repetitions and communications.

    as it stands after very poor seasons ...the rams have everything to gain by developing their 'skill' players... vs maybe winning a few more games this year and then watching several of the key players on single year contracts brought in leave for another team while potential high quality players such as rookies have lost another year in game experience.
    Good post. Welcome to the board, if it hasn't already been said. Since you didn't see the Patsy game, I can add in support of your argument about timing/chemistry that some of the most important plays,imo, were relatively unspectacular inside slants to Amendola. These were blitz-beaters/hot reads that require both QB and WR to be totally in sync & seeing the same thing. D'Marco Farr pointed out in the commentary that he'd seen Danny and Sam work on those very routes a hundred times....after practice on their own. You can't buy that.

    It doesn't mean The Rams don't need more talent but it has to be the right guys at the right time.None of the names being tossed around at the moment fit that bill,imo.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -08-28-2010 at 03:19 PM.

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    marcus1111 is offline Registered User
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    so true ... what made colt's manning so consistently successful was first his ability to read the defense and very quickly check off.. have a very quick release and hit the receiver on short timed routes... made it very difficult on the defense and especially when there was an all out blitz... and from what I have read .. he spent a ridiculous amt of time with his receivers working on this...

  11. #11
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    Good post and welcome to the Clan. I agree with your points about developing rookies over bringing in 'hired guns" to help us for a year or so until they retire or move elsewhere. I made a point yesterday in another thread that if we remember 1999 when Trent Green went down in the pre-season, ironically also against the Patriots, we thought the season was over. Yet along came Kurt Warner and we all know how that season ended.

    My point is that there may be another WR version of Kurt Warner on our team and we haven't discovered him yet. It's unlikely that we're going to be a Super Bowl contender this year so let's use the time to develop a younger WR into a "Blue Chipper" and build for the near-term when we certainly will contend for the Super Bowl. Sam Bradford's performance on Thursday makes that dream a bit more of a reality. We still have a loooong way to go but the direction is correct.

    Go Rams!

  12. #12
    marcus1111 is offline Registered User
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    we also need to remember... typically rookie receivers need to learn a whole new set of skills that were not as demanding during college and were overshadowed by pure talent and ability... how to get free after the line of scrimmage ... doing battle with very crafty defenders whose main objective is to impede the receiver from their route and timing. this is something that I believe is really focused on in training camp...

  13. #13
    rNemesis's Avatar
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by mde8352gorams View Post
    I made a point yesterday in another thread that if we remember 1999 when Trent Green went down in the pre-season, ironically also against the Patriots, we thought the season was over. Yet along came Kurt Warner and we all know how that season ended.
    Actually that was against the CHARGERS buddy I remember it. The chargers were leading in the game like 14-10 wen it happened.

  14. #14
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: maybe i'm blowing smoke

    I think a large portion of the difference in numbers between the second and third game had to do with the gameplan. Go back and look at the Browns game, and there wasn't a Rams receiver in the first half that was targeted more than once. Now go to the Patriots game, and multiple Rams receivers had multiple targets. There seemed to be a larger emphasis placed on downfield passing against the Pats, which helped boost the numbers.

    One thing from the Patriots game that I think is concerning is that the Rams' starting wide receivers - Avery and Robinson - were targeted a combined five times in the first half with Bradford. Compare that to Amendola, who had six targets by himself, and Hoomanawanui who had four, I believe. Robinson didn't catch any of his three targets, and while Avery caught both of his, he's now done for the year.

    While I do agree that a quarterback developing good timing and trust with his wide receivers is important, and recognize the effect that can have on production, I think the question that arises now is which wide receiver, besides Amendola, does Sam Bradford really trust? Robinson, IMO, has not looked sharp at all this preseason. Gilyard was sloppy with drops against the Browns, but had some nice catches against the Patriots. Is he ready to move outside and challenge opponents? Is Gibson, even though he's had his own health and consistency problems? It's a pretty big question mark, to say the least.

    Finally, one point I'd like to make since the Colts and Pats were brought up as part of the discussion. While both teams have done a good job surrounding their quarterbacks with talent and developing their own players, I'd point out that both teams have made it a priority to acquire highly skilled players.

    Since Brady came on and the Patriots became successful, they've spent first round picks on tight ends Daniel Graham and Ben Watson, second round picks on receivers Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson, and Chad Jackson, as well as tight end Rob Gronkowski. They also traded for both Randy Moss and Wes Welker. Since drafting Manning in 1998, the Colts have also spent first round picks on running backs Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai, and Donald Brown, as well as receivers Reggie Wayne and Anthony Gonzalez, and tight end Dallas Clark.

    I'm not in favor of signing Joe Schmo for one year as a marginal upgrade, and I'm all for giving our young guys a chance. But it seems to me we kind of did that last year, waiting for one of them to step up and become a legit target. None of them really did. Will it happen this year? We'll see, but if I'm the Rams, now that I've found my $78-million quarterback, I'd better be ready to use whatever resources I need to so that I can surround him with talent, whether that means through free agency, through trade, or through the draft. I don't think anyone has the luxury of just waiting around season after season, hoping the guys we have somehow become All Pros.
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  15. #15
    marcus1111 is offline Registered User
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    nick... first I have to admit that I am fairly ignorant to the rams recent history and new to this forum.. agree with you totally about the the last games success due to changes in the game plan... but also have to feel that the level of the playing also had to match the change in the game plan... remember... the first two exhibition games could be considered scrimmages in my opinion... basically a chance for the coaches to see in a real game the talent level of the new players and improvements or not of the older players and new players learning the playbook etc... now as the newer players have a better understanding of the playbook and their role and expectations of the coaches and a better understanding of their weaknesses and strengths for specific improvements relative to the over teams needs... more sophisticated game plans can be used... situational plays that depend on very exact routes and timing can be put in use... the team no longer acts like a bunch of individuals trying to make the team and overplaying their position but much more cohesive and letting the designed play come to them..

    about the pats etc relative to their development... can also agree that talent is talent ... it is either there or not... but from what I remember of the early success of the pats was belicheck ability to get more from what was considered an average player by his development of matching up the players as a group... was very successful on both lines... basically he was looking for the best player for his team... not just the best player out there. with this being said... the rams are at a time to maybe do some things diff or maybe take some chances... pretty hard to have a worse season... expectations are fairly low and realistic and the concept of being a building year is not an idle term... but based on a few exhibition games one can say that a major investment in a franchise qb seems to be developing at a realistic pace... basically as he learns ... he improves.. does not seem to have major flaws as some top picks have had in the past but we cannot expect him to be a premier qb with or without premier wr right out of the gate...

    my thoughts are based on why the need to right now try to grab a top available wr before we really know what we already have and paid for. would understand if the team had a fairly successful passing game with a seasoned and highly rated qb... then it would make sense to fill the gap left by an injury to a important part of a successful passing and receiving group.. but I believe that is not the case...

    also with the case of both the colts and the pats... their needs for going after top players to support their qb was after they had fairly successfully develop that part of the team... and needed to either replace important parts of the group due to injury or players leaving after their contract was up for greener pastures... but with the thought that there had to a specific hole to fill of a proven and success group... and not just for overall upgrade reasons

    also I cannot count the times when highly touted if not all pro level player has left a team for a better contract and never played to the level when he was with the team that got him there... and I can say there are many examples of teams falling apart when a star player left... look at what happened when r moss left the team that made him an all pro receiver... the minn qb which I believe was also an all pro totally tanked and randy moss... who I believed went to oakland did not have near the numbers he previously had... again the relationship of receivers and qb is one of understanding each other through extensive reps... very difficult to plug and play at these positions... only qb that I felt could bring it off would be farve... and that was due to just having the wisdom through many years
    Last edited by Nick; -08-28-2010 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Merging back to back posts, just use the EDIT feature if you want to add stuff :)

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